America what is going on?!?

[oistene]

I want to turn this discussion towards that we are really here for: Miniature figures. Trump says that he wants to increase tax on trade with China, to encourage manufacture in America.

A HUGE (or is that yuge?) part of our toys are being made in China, so I worry that the mini prices will skyrocket. That might be good for the European companies, but bad for CMoN (whom I know manufacture in China), Wyrd, Privateer Press etc (not sure if those two manufacture in China, I just assume that most large companies do).

 

[MAXXxxx]

I want to turn this discussion towards that we are really here for: Miniature figures. Trump says that he wants to increase tax on trade with China, to encourage manufacture in America.

A HUGE (or is that yuge?) part of our toys are being made in China, so I worry that the mini prices will skyrocket. That might be good for the European companies, but bad for CMoN (whom I know manufacture in China), Wyrd, Privateer Press etc (not sure if those two manufacture in China, I just assume that most large companies do).

Wyrd does, I think PP doesn't (not sure about it, for a long time they tried to stay inhouse).

Also taxing chinese import works only as long as china/row doesn't start doing the same to US goods. At that point both sides retreat to the usual business.

Also if it is done it may not be as bad as you think. CMON KS uses china for the cheap manufacture, but somehow historical figures are just as cheap and not done in china. So it IS possible to make them in the US/Eu for a similar price.
Worst case... the free KS extras will be about halved. So going from the AQ-Masmorra I just got: instead of 5 paid + 14 free minis they'll offer 5 paid+5-7 free ones.

 

[KruleBear]

Wyrd does, I think PP doesn't (not sure about it, for a long time they tried to stay inhouse).

Also taxing chinese import works only as long as china/row doesn't start doing the same to US goods. At that point both sides retreat to the usual business.

Also if it is done it may not be as bad as you think. CMON KS uses china for the cheap manufacture, but somehow historical figures are just as cheap and not done in china. So it IS possible to make them in the US/Eu for a similar price.
Worst case... the free KS extras will be about halved. So going from the AQ-Masmorra I just got: instead of 5 paid + 14 free minis they'll offer 5 paid+5-7 free ones.

I thought it was interesting that one of the main purposes of Reaper's first Bone's Kickstarters was to allow them to purchase their own injection molding machine. It doesn't appear to be large enough to handle all their demand , but seemed like a smart hedge to keep some of their production in the U.S...of course their focus is still on the crappy PVC Bone's material.

And fortunately for me, I have a couple thousand unpainted minis to weather the potential coming trade war.....may have to order some more paint soon though lol.

 

[TheLost]

KB>> I would disagree,.. republicans/conservatives want just as much government as democrats/liberals do, they just want it applied differently. Conservatives want government to control people's personal choices (ie: tell gays that they can't marry, tell women that they can't have abortions etc,..) yet they want government to keep it hands out of business. (So they pocket even more money). Liberals want the exact opposite. I want the government to keep its hand off my personal life. It's none of their business who I marry, or whether or not my wife has an abortion. I do , however, want the government to regulate business. Why?? Because without regulations, businesses will run "rough-shot" over the people. In my view,.. conservatives have their wires crossed and have a backwards logic. How so?? Most conservatives claim to be Christian, yet all of their action are the exact opposite of Christianity. For example, the Bible (and practically every religion) says that helping others is a good thing, and killing others is a bad thing. Do you agree?? If so,.. then how can you be conservative?? By definition, anything that even remotely resembles helping another human being,.. welfare, planned parenthood, foreign aid, taking in refugees ( I could go on),.. all of these things help other people, which would be the Christian thing to do, yet the conservatives are dead set against them. Why?? Because somehow in their backwards logic, helping others is the sin,.. and killing others is the virtue.

Leave it to an atheist to speak on the behalf of Christians. I was going to stay out of this thread, but after reading your post I just loled... in what world do real Christians consider ABORTION as helping people?? Please don't speak on my faith's behalf and say we are for abortion because it "helps people." That's just ignorant - talk about backwards logic! Conservatives are more generous with their time and money, and yes we do believe killing is a BAD thing... THAT'S WHY WE ARE AGAINST ABORTION... since roe v. wade we've had 56 million abortions... THAT'S 56 MILLION DEAD BABIES... but wait, I forgot... that's somehow Christian... killing a baby because two people decided to have sex without caring about the consequences. Give me a freakin break! If ever there were an example of failed liberal logic, here it is.

And no, conservatives don't want big government, they want LIMITED government, which is different from the "no government anarchy" most liberals protest for (Occupy Movement). Life requires tough choices, and Big Brother shouldn't be there all the time when you mess up. We are not anit-welfare, but anti "Nanny State, cradle to grave welfare." If a person is disabled and can't work, by all means, give him/her the means to survive (that in fact is Christian). But if a person can't work because he/she is too concerned with being high, then no, don't enable or encourage self-destructive behavior at the expense of others (that in fact is also Christian). Nor are we warmongers or blood thirsty barbarians as you so claim us to be (ie killing is a virtue) LOL...since when? I go to work with a damn gun on the side of my hip every day... you think I WANT to kill people?? What group was it that called for killing cops? Oh right... Black Lives Matter! I'm sure a very Christ oriented organization... Gotta love the knee jerk reaction of liberal drones... "He's got the nuke codes! He's gonna use them!!" Obama had the nuke codes too...talk about a petulant 5 year old with a god complex... but hey... nukes are not just 'used.' Again, failed liberal logic on display here...

On another note, only liberal logic dictates open, insecure borders. Tell me, which nation doesn't enforce its sovereignty or right to exist as it chooses? Which nation touts ceaseless immigration and survives? Especially from countries with people that want to kill us (you should read Al Qaida's manifesto... scary shit). Which nation doesn't have borders, immigration laws, its own history, tradition, and culture? If you think unending, open immigration to this country is a good thing, you are sorely mistaken. Do you not see the division multiculturalism has espoused? If people want to come here, great! That just says how awesome we are! But do it legally,and don't demand it as if you have a right to be here! If you and I are expected to follow every law written, then why does a foreign national get a pass? The safety and security of the citizenry comes first (that includes you). And by the way, just because we're building a wall, doesn't mean it won't have a door. Liberal logic is akin to a bumper sticker... no thought deeper than an emotional reaction. Let the grown ups GOVERN the country (not try to rule like obama), while the children scream and yell about their free cradle to grave programs.

 

[Avelorn]

What is a real Christian, theLost & Webmonkey?

Can we perhaps lower the testosterone level in this debate?

In comment to the discussion I'm going to quote Reaper's Gale by Steven Erikson

"...He is possessed of certainty. He holds to a secure vision of the world, a man with the correct answers - that the prerequisite questions were themselves the correct ones goes without saying. A citizen with certainty, Yahvana, can be swayed, turned, can be made into a most diligent ally. All one needs to do is find what threatens them the most. Ignite their fear, burn to cinders the foundations of their certainty, then offer an equally certain alternate way of thinking, of seeing the world They will reach across, no matter how the the gulf, and grasp and hold on to you with all their strength. No the certain are not our enemies. ... ... our greatest enemies are those wo are without certainty. The ones with questions, the ones who regard our tidy answers with unquenchable skepticism. Those questions assail us, undermine us. They ... agitate. Understand, these dangerous citizens understand that nothing is simple; their stance is the very opposite of naivety."

 

[Bailey03]

I'm going to avoid weighing in on the specific political topics, I get into enough of those arguments on facebook, don't need it here too! But to respond to Andy's original post, there are many in the US who oppose the policies being proposed by our new president and will continue to speak out against them. Just check out these photos from the national women's march 10 days ago.
View attachment 55049

Trump became president because of the way the electoral college works, keep in mind he lost the popular vote by roughly 3 million. For my conservative friends, I'm aware that's how the rules work and therefore he really is the president. Just pointing out that he does not exactly have the overwhelming support of the majority of Americans.

Here's another fun fact, Trump has been the fastest president by far to reach the 50%+ disapproval rating.
View attachment 55050
It happens to all recent presidents, so it doesn't mean a whole lot. But the speed with which it happened in this case is pretty impressive.

None of that means he's not the president or that he won't be able to enact policies that you or I disagree with. My point is merely that Americans are of many different opinions on the new administration and continue to struggle to do what we think is right since we often disagree on what that is.

 

[TheLost]

LOL @ the women's march... half of them don't even know why they're there... how sad that we as a society have come to the point where we protest in the streets for the "right" to kill babies. Even though I am not a parent, I do not and never will understand that sadistic mentality.

As to what is a real Christian... without writing a formal paper, let's keep it at this: The Word of God is the Law. You can't pick and choose what you follow and what you don't. A real Christian hears the Word, understands the Word, believes the Word, and lives the Word. A Christian lives his faith for the glory of God - they aren't just words - it is more than just a declaration of belief. It is more than following rules; it's a unique, personal relationship between you and God, bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. A real Christian lives out the two most important commands in his/her daily life; Love thy God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love thy neighbor as yourself.

But if want to know more (actually) read the Bible, and let me know.

 

[Bailey03]

You are over simplifying what that movement was all about. Women marched for many reasons. Among them are protests against a man who routinely insults women and has bragged about sexually assaulting them. Another issue is opposition to the continuing efforts to defund planned parenthood. The vast majority of their services (97%) are health screenings and providing birth control. If you're against abortion, making sure birth control is accessible to all women is a good way to start. There's the issue of equal pay. Many marched to support LGBT rights. And many marched to protest sexual violence. We're a society where when a woman is raped, she has to defend how much she had to drink, what she wore, her sexual history, etc. And, even then, a guy can be convicted of rape but serve just three months because the judge didn't want to ruin his promising future. At least those are a few examples of the issues people were marching for the other week.

 

[TheLost]

I agree with you on the insulting women part. I cannot remember if the sexual assault claims were substantiated or not, but character is as important to a person as is their ideology. Onwards...

Planned parenthood is a private entity funded by the government that engages in actions that should not be funded by the government... health care services are available in other, better locales.

The best birth control...dare I say... is abstinence... but God forbid we expect adults to act like adults and control themselves, make difficult decisions, and face their consequences...

Equal pay is already federal law (Equal Pay Act of 1963). Furthermore, the data used to "prove" the wage disparity between men and women is overly broad and fails to take into account different job titles, hours worked, vacation taken, maternity leave, etc)

I fail to see how sexual orientation bestows additional rights to a person... the rights we have that are GOD given are enumerated within the Constitution... to expect otherwise because of a deviant lifestyle is in itself discrimination and contrary to the rule of law.

As for the rape/sexual battery issues, I think one way to prevent rape/sexual battery is to encourage women to arm themselves and learn how to defend themselves. Rape/sexual battery is one of the most heinous crimes I can imagine; I think it'd be better to empower women to defend themselves rather than treat them like victims... no whistle, "safe space," or panic alarm is going to do that.

I have no problem with people protesting peaceably for what they believe in...that is their right... but equating another party's belief system to that of Hitler's Nazi Germany shuts out all reason, and I for one cannot take such rhetoric, or those who believe it, seriously.

 

[Dragonsreach]

As for the rape/sexual battery issues, I think one way to prevent rape/sexual battery is to encourage women to arm themselves and learn how to defend themselves. Rape/sexual battery is one of the most heinous crimes I can imagine; I think it'd be better to empower women to defend themselves rather than treat them like victims... no whistle, "safe space," or panic alarm is going to do that.

I said I wasn't going to jump in on this But..
I can't fucking believe what I just read. You'd rather have women defend themselves then educate men the rape is a criminal act. If you can't see that fucking attitude is part of the problem then you are as guilty of the "ownership" mentality over women that is an inherent cause of rape.


And it's an indication of how angry that made me that for the first time in more than fifteen years on this forum I've sworn in print!

 

[MAXXxxx]

I said I wasn't going to jump in on this But..
I can't fucking believe what I just read. You'd rather have women defend themselves then educate men the rape is a criminal act.

I wasn't going to jump in on this But..

I can't fucking believe what I just read. You really think normal men are not against rape and those criminals who do it care about some 'education'?

"Oooh, so it's wrooong! I didn't know. Sorry I won't do it again."
Not likely.

----

But we are derailing AndyG-s topic. It was about things during/post election in the USA.

 

[gohkm]

This entire Trump affair reminds me of how Pauline Hanson and Obe Nation came to power in Oz.

That's about all I care to say - goodness knows Dragonsreach is sick of all my posts on Facebook by now .

 

[SkelettetS]

I wasn't going to jump in on this But..

I can't fucking believe what I just read. You really think normal men are not against rape and those criminals who do it care about some 'education'?

"Oooh, so it's wrooong! I didn't know. Sorry I won't do it again."
Not likely.

keep in mind most rape is happening indoors, and the victim and rapist often are in a relationship. believe it or not some men still think its ok to force them on their wives anytime they please just because they are married. So yeah, some education wouldnt hurt at all.

 

[Webmonkey]

Again,.. I know that tempers flair on these matters. But I would like to take a moment to say that I respect everyone's viewpoint,.. even those I disagree with. And I would still like to be able to grab a beer with everyone at the end of the day. Both with those I'm sure I've offended,.. and those who have offended me. It's great to be able to disagree and still be friends. That being said, there's more to say, but it'll have to wait until after work.

 

[AndyG]

Ok dunno what to say here really. Hmmmm .......I think that on the face of it there are some very very different views indeed on the direction America needs to take.

When a country is this divided it reminds me of a family argument ..even when you win you really lose.

On the other issue raised I didn't even consider that rape would be an issue that people would hold differing views over or maybe that's my naivety?

 

[Bailey03]

Ha, well I think the vast majority of us here are against rape, just differ a bit on how it can realistically be prevented.

TheLost, we can respectfully disagree on many of those issues and I can present evidence arguing the other side, but I really didn't want to get caught up in politics here. In short, my point of posting was to simply say that the women who marched did so for many issues and, based on what I've seen, the issue of abortion was not the primary topic of the march. But to briefly address a few points...

First, I said Trump bragged about the assaults, not that he actually did them. There are people who've come forward to accuse him, but nothing has been proven as of yet. Still, people can be legitimately bothered by that kind of talk and I believe this, along with his other behavior towards women was the primary motivating factor behind the march.

Second, planned parenthood is not funded by the government. It provides a variety of health care and contraception services to the public, often in areas where other options are not available. A number of people who go to planned parenthood are on medicaid and others qualify under the Title X Family Planning Program (representing roughly a 3rd of planned parenthood's budget). Medicaid is merely paying for health services in the same way they do for doctors, hospitals, and other clinics. Federal funds are explicitly restricted from being used for abortions. The same arguments can be made for, I believe, most non-catholic hospitals. They receive funds to reimburse them when they treat patients on medicaid and medicare. They can also perform abortions, though government funds do not go towards that. Basically the use of the word defund is incorrect. What people really are saying is these clinics should not be paid for treating people on medicaid or the poor who qualify under Title X because we don't approve of a different service that they legally provide (and which accounts for roughly 3% of what they do).

Third, while Dragonsreach stated the point somewhat strongly, the idea that women bear the responsibility to prevent their rapes instead of men bearing the responsibility to not commit them is one I don't believe is applied to any other crime. We don't say its the victims fault for being murdered, they should have taken self defense classes. Not to mention that fact that, as SkelletS brought up, many assaults don't happen out in the open. From statistics published at RAINN.org, only 28% of sexual assaults are committed by strangers. In addition, the DOJ estimates that 35.4% of women in their study had been victims of drug-facilitated sexual assaults. This can include alcohol or date-rape drugs. Self defense classes would not be of use there. Some people blame the women for drinking alcohol, but again that is blaming the victim. Are we a society where only men should be able to drink alcohol without concern that they might be sexually assaulted? And MAXXxxx, while you may have meant that as more of a sarcastic response, there is data showing many people do not understand what qualifies as consent. A study found 20% of college men thought that merely not saying no implied consent, 30% percent that foreplay did and 43% that getting a condom implied consent. A study published in the journal Violence and Gender found that roughly 1/3 of male college students do not know what actually constitutes rape. So yes, while education might not stop someone who intentionally goes out to rape a woman, it can still be useful in cutting down on the number of sexual assaults.

Fourth, I agree on the Nazi Germany comment. It is used as an exaggeration and does not allow for constructive discussions on the issues. However, I don't believe that was a common argument made at the women's march. Though a some may have, I don't recall seeing any signs in the photographs with that comparison on them. And, to be clear, both sides do that. Just last month our new president used that analogy to complain about our own intelligence agencies. "Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?"

 

[KruleBear]

When a country is this divided it reminds me of a family argument ..even when you win you really lose.

Infortunately, I think your statement is 100% correct.

NOW, EVERYONE GET BACK TO PAINTING SO I CAN DROOL OVER SOME MINIS.

 

[ten ball]

Have to say I saw a fascinating programme about the 'mentally' of abusers such as rapists , child abuse etc.
The key point was that the abuser (man or woman) really and i mean really (not just a excuse) believed that some sort of 'good' act like giving to charity or working hard for the family (the list goes on forever) helps counter the evil act.

now they know it's wrong and they also know they socity doest agree but they themselves believe it and sometimes seek out others that agree also.
according to the science we all do this to a certain extent eg going for a jog counters a chocolate treat or ive worked hard so i deserve my glass of wine or new ferrari etc.

I don't understand the science of it but found it fascinating.

 

[TheLost]

I said I wasn't going to jump in on this But..
I can't fucking believe what I just read. You'd rather have women defend themselves then educate men the rape is a criminal act. If you can't see that fucking attitude is part of the problem then you are as guilty of the "ownership" mentality over women that is an inherent cause of rape.


And it's an indication of how angry that made me that for the first time in more than fifteen years on this forum I've sworn in print!

@ Dragonsreach

So much for keeping it civil and polite...so sad...

Yes I would rather have women BE ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. Do you know why? Because you're not gonna educate everyone, and you cannot control the free will of an individual to commit evil acts. If you as a man need to be educated that raping a woman is a crime, then you have more serious underlying issues. I guess it's not common sense that you can't force yourself upon a woman...but hey that's what happens when you advocate a secular society... no fear of consequences, everything goes...

If you want to treat women like victims before the fact, by all means, go ahead... don't expect me to. I'm not blaming the victim, or telling them it's their actions that cause them to get raped... that's ignorant... I guess you think telling a woman to not walk by herself to her car in a dark parking lot at night is akin to blaming her of rape or robbery as well... Since when is taking precautions tantamount to blaming the victim? If that's the case we shouldn't wear seat belts, buy insurance, or lock our doors at night... because, by your logic, taking these precautions effectually labels and blames us as "the victim."

No amount of "education" is going to prevent some psycho from doing what they're determined to do... better to prepare for it in case it does happen, that way you can stop it. You can't wish evil away, you can't legislate it away, and you can't ignore it; you stand up to it and you fight it...

I fail to see how that is effectually blaming the victim...

And I'm only going to say this once... do not accuse me of being some domineering, misogynist that thinks a woman is owned property. If you can't make your case without resorting to personal attacks, especially when you don't know ANYTHING about me, you've already lost the argument.

@AndyG

I'm sure we all agree that rape is inherently evil and NEVER justifiable...that should go without saying...

@Bailey03

I'm not blaming the victim, nor am I saying men should not control themselves...In fact a man that commits rape is not a man at all, but more akin to an animal. My argument is this... why would you not take proactive steps to prevent something from happening to you that someone else may do when there's a risk that it can happen? I mean David come on... if, God forbid, your wife were attacked, you wouldn't want her to be able to defend herself? How is that saying it's her fault? You cannot control the actions or intent of another person, but you can protect yourself.

Maybe it's just me, but doing what I do, I'm not gonna tell someone they're being a victim if they take precautions to prevent some evil thing from happening. Obviously exigent circumstances apply where preparations fail, but why would you not plan for the worst? And just remember, whatever the crime may be, the police aren't gonna be there at exactly the moment you need them...police actions are reactionary, and sometimes you in fact are responsible for your own safety and life (again, regardless of the crime). Yes, there is an expectation that everyone should live with each other civilly, but come on, we don't live in a utopia... evil exists and not everyone lives responsible lives.

 

[Avelorn]

I'm not saying opinions doesn't matter but lets not get too personal now, right? I've discussed a lot of the Internet and it is very hard getting through to people, even more so if you insult them. What you are rather doing then, involuntary or not, is "scoring points" for your own team. If you feel a lot of anger discussing, take a breather and try to think that opinions rarely speaks as much of the character of the individual than his or her circumstance.

There has been some hands reaching out here, lets clasp them instead of slapping them away.