And by the Way...

[Ebonbuddha]

Luckily, I have found some people here who want to get rid of the rep that Korea is starting to get. They are very embarrassed when we go out and stuff happens.
Yeah. For a while there was a fade where some of the kids into hip hop would where afro wigs, or get perms to make their hair kinky to resemble black people. There was a pop group here name Bubble or something like that. They performed in blackface. Seriously.
Since I have been an ex-pat I have done some traveling. I have been to Japan(Fuakoka), Singapore, Malaysia (Kuala Lampur), Thailand (Kosamui and Bangkok),China (Beijing), and Hong Kong. The worse I have encountered is in Korea. The second worse was in Beijing. It got so bad in China our tour guide got angry and started yelling at people. During World Cup 2002, a lot of people were worried that the Koreans were going to insult every foreigner that they saw. Basicly, our usual treatment for being foreigners. lol Things went great. Someone told me that there was a announcement to be on your best behaviour.
This is the funny part: There is a fade going around in South Korea. Women are getting operations to get their eyes rounded like westerners. The younger women are taking it one step farther. They are also using skin whitening cream. To top it off they have started to dye their hair \"natural\" blonde, auburn, and red. Who does it sound like they are trying to look like?

Originally posted by steelcult
I know exactly where you are coming from Ebonbudda. I spent some time working with an English as a second language program while I was in college the first time. The worst racists we dealt with were the Asians, and by and large the Koreans were the worst of the bunch. Out of about 30 Koreans I dealt with, only one was willing to meet us half way, and he had spent his time in the Korean Army assigned to work with the US Army. The rest of them treated us like we were servents at best, or something to be scraped off their shoes at worst.

 

[kittykat23uk]

To address Evil Dave\'s original post on the subject of smoking. I am a non-smoker and I have some friends who smoke and some who don\'t. If we are out at the local pub, with non-smokers, we often do not have the choice of avoiding the smoke of others because the majority of pubs do not have a non-smoking section. The only local one that does have a non-smoking section has it placed right near the doors and is very cold in winter. Hence we have a choice of freezing or inhaling other peoples\' smoke.

What bugs me the most is that smokers generally don\'t think about the impact that their smoking has on those around them. Even our friends who know we don\'t smoke will still smoke around us, and why shouldn\'t they? I normally just have to put up with the acrid stench that lingers on my clothes long after the end of the evening, as well as the catarrh caused by breathing in second hand smoke all evening. It may surprise you to hear this , but people have died from passive smoking (for example Roy Castle). I would rather not have to breath other peoples smoke, but realistically don\'t have a choice when socialising with some of our friends. I don\'t have a go at them for it, but we do have a rule that no one is allowed to smoke in our flat, at least that one place is sacred. I also try and encourage them to quit if they so desire to.

Regards

Kat

 

[Evil Dave]

Kittykat
I notice you are from England...here in the States it is getting outrageous. There are some clubs/bars/pubs that smoking is illegal...however the owners were not asked if smoking could be allowed in their bars...some states and counties made the decsisions for them.

Having been a smoker for some 13 years (currently on the patch) I have to say I have to say I have been extremely considerate of others.

When I go to a friends house who doesn\'t smoke I go outside (although when I do, it seems that my friends assault marines are always within charge range of my eldar when I get back)

When we go out to eat we always go to the non-smoking section.

But as courteous as I am of others, I do not recieve the same courtesy...
I work in a scientific facility sitting in the middle of 80 acres. I would go outside to smoke...and get bothered by people saying how horrible a habit that is.

Now as you can see I am in Baton Rouge...If you know the territory it\'s nickname is Cancer Alley from all the Indstrial plants...The inhabitants possibly have just as much chance dying from breathing the air...Or what about every major city...Is attacking the smoker going to get rid of the smog in San Diego?

No the point of the forum was to point out that whatever our choice may be...It\'s still our choice.

I don\'t harass others who drink destroying their liver and possibly killing someone when they drive home drunk...don\'t harass me for only killing myself...and as for second hand smoke... you always have the option of going someplace else...but no matter where we smokers or non-smokers go we will always be victims to second-hand stupidity.

 

[Dragonsreach]

I think that the problem for me as a non-smoker is that in England my right to object to second hand smoking is ignored. I hate following someone who callously blows their smoke anywhere which usually means it\'s right in my pathway. And to me it STINKS, literally!
As to the right to smoke Yes it\'s your right, just don\'t force the emmissions from your habit on me, I (we) have the right to stay smoke free.

My Father in law is suffering from the effects of a lifetimes smoking, Hardening Arteries, Stroke(s) and Heart attack. The hardening of the arteries is so bad that he\'s had to have a leg amputated, what was worse is that due to the hardening of the arteries in his neck and head the operation had to be carried out with an epidural anesthetic.

My parents smoked all during my childhood, and beyond. That has added to the cause of my Father having a heart attack, my Mother just having a stroke and being left with Epilepsy.

One thing about England is that back in 1996 the law changed and employers had to arrange for smokers to have a separate area in which to smoke outside of the work environment. I have no problem with this, if people would take work into that area with them, but 80% of the smokers I know just use it as an additional break. One in particular goes the longest way around the building in order to have a cigarette on the way to the area, then one in the area, and one on the way back. Total lost time each \"Smoke Break\" 20 Mins, almost every hour!

 

[finn17]

They are all the same....

The problem is, people think that smoking and drinking are acceptable, at least as compared to injecting heroin into your eyeball or eating dope cakes. Just because nicotine and alcohol are legal doesn\'t mean that people have the right to inflict the \'consequence\' of their choice onto others.
Similarly, the anti-smoking brigade keep banging on about their rights to remain smoke free. The reality is, in my opinion, you are as likely to be killed/physically injured by any of these \'lifestyle choices\' be it passive smoking, the drunk behind a wheel, the addict behind a wheel, the addict breaking into your premises to finance their addiction or even the sober, drug free \'boyracer\' who has a car above his ability to control.
Basically, you are born, you go to school, you go to work and then you die.

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by finn17
even the sober, drug free \'boyracer\' who has a car above his ability to control.

Boy racer
Boy racer
We\'re gonna kill
This pretty thing
Boy racer
Boy racer...

Ah, Morrissey.

 

[KatieG]

I\'ve got no problems with nice, polite smokers who are considerate of the people around them when they smoke. And I\'m not one of those people who say anything to smokers even when they\'re being dickheads about it. I work in a laboratory, and in a building that is completely smoke free. I am sick and bloody tired of going out into the stairwells and having to step over a bunch of butts. First, you shouldn\'t be smoking in the building. Second, pick up after yourselves (especially inside!!!). That is what I really really don\'t like about smokers in general, they think nothing of throwing their butts on the ground and walking by. Like, hello? This is my city too, and I\'d like to see it kept clean! Now, granted, I live in NYC and I get just as annoyed by the assholes who throw their empty bag of chips on the ground they just finished when there\'s a trashcan not 30 feet away from them
So anyways, I guess my point is, not all non-smokers are going to come up and be rude to you and say \"nasty habit\" etc, even when sometimes some smokers deserve it for their inconsiderate ways. Sometimes I am tempted when I observe particularly obnoxious behavior, but I usually just let it slide because life\'s too short...
--Katie G.

 

[johnboyjjb]

The big difference in the law suits is that orignally Phillip-Morris denied the fact that their product was both addictive and deadly when they had proof that it was. McDonalds never said the food they serve wasn\'t going to kill you. My biggest beef with smokers is the few who throw the butts out of the car, especially while they are still glowing hot. And people who smoke around their kids torque me of off too. Adults who have a choice to leave the premises are fine but locking your 5 year old in the car with you and lighting up is unaccaptable.

bet more people die in one year due to someone\'s Second-Hand Stupidity than to Second-Hand Smoke...


All of the stupid things listed by Evil Dave are punishable by law. But many people would consider it stupidity to smoke as well.

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by johnboyjjb
The big difference in the law suits is that orignally Phillip-Morris denied the fact that their product was both addictive and deadly when they had proof that it was.

Well, how much proof does a potential smoker need to have?

I mean, how many people die, every year, etc etc etc...

Let\'s also not forget that doctors used to smoke in their offices...and used to tell overweight pregnant women to take up smoking to offset weight gain during pregnancy. Sue all of them too? How about suing the descendants of the Indians for introducing the white man to the stuff in the first place? Suing descendants of the plantation owners for turning it into one of the American South\'s biggest cash crops?

We could go on and on. I just think personal responsibility MIGHT should enter the equation somewhere. *shrug*

 

[mule]

And don\'t forget to sue the slaves too...

Another significant difference is that, with a reasonably active lifestyle (unlike what most mini-painters would have I suppose,) It is perfectly possible to eat Maccas, even daily, without putting on weight.
Not to mention all their food is sterilised beyond the point of sanity(sanitary???).

Personally I\'m quite thankful that the local laws are changing to remove smokers from pubs/bars. Not just because I am a regular frequenter of such establishments, but I also have a lot of friends who work in such places. Imagine having to work in all that 2nd hand smoke for hours everyday. Even the smokers I know hate 2nd hand smoke.

Of course the primary motivation for this is to reduce the possibility of workers suing when they get lung cancer.

 

[Nomis]

Originally posted by finn17
Basically, you are born, you go to school, you go to work and then you die.

Just what we need - an optimist

 

[mouse]

i stand with Finn...

Originally posted by finn17
The problem is, people think that smoking and drinking are acceptable, at least as compared to injecting heroin into your eyeball or eating dope cakes. Just because nicotine and alcohol are legal doesn\'t mean that people have the right to inflict the \'consequence\' of their choice onto others.
Similarly, the anti-smoking brigade keep banging on about their rights to remain smoke free. The reality is, in my opinion, you are as likely to be killed/physically injured by any of these \'lifestyle choices\' be it passive smoking, the drunk behind a wheel, the addict behind a wheel, the addict breaking into your premises to finance their addiction or even the sober, drug free \'boyracer\' who has a car above his ability to control.
Basically, you are born, you go to school, you go to work and then you die.

i smoke but i know it isn\'t good...it\'s my choice and i ain\'t gonna sue anyone if my health takes a downturn...likewise with anything else. it\'s the same with non-smokers. frankly speaking, its a fab for those non-brainers...no one will have said anything 10 years ago...society have such a way to brainwash people...and being politically correct is so...duh!

personally, i hate perfumes...it gives me a bloody headache. especially those who spray it wantonly on themselves and then i got stuck with them either in the bus or lift or workplace. but that doesn\'t give me a right to request for a non-perfume section either or to ask that person to leave.

and yes, people die for various reasons. plane crashes, over-eating, terrorist bombings and etc. birth-growth-sickness-death; a chinese saying of life in general.

PS: i wonder if discriminators are going to discriminator the cows, cats and the chickens after all, the cows are going \"mad\", cats carry \"SARS\" and the chickens are sneezing.

 

[mouse]

how about...

Originally posted by Nomis

Originally posted by finn17
Basically, you are born, you go to school, you go to work and then you die.

Just what we need - an optimist

a realist?

 

[Sand Rat]

I think my favorite take on the smoking/non smoking argument is this - George Burns smoked at least one cigar a day all his life and lived to be over 100. Jim Fix wrote a book on getting healthy, didnt smoke, ate right and dropped dead while jogging at 36. You decide.

 

[mouse]

you said it...

Originally posted by steelcult
I think my favorite take on the smoking/non smoking argument is this - George Burns smoked at least one cigar a day all his life and lived to be over 100. Jim Fix wrote a book on getting healthy, didnt smoke, ate right and dropped dead while jogging at 36. You decide.

...right steelcult...

\"...death comes to everyone...its how you embrace life...\"

 

[Chrispy]

Okay, I usually don\'t like being serious on these forums but here we go:

My grandmother smoked all her life, from before she was married and even after I was born. She died of emphysma when I was around 10. It frightened me to see her before she went. She was so thin and frail, she looked like a skeleton. She always had to carry an oxygen tank and I was always curious why she had to depend on it. I miss her, and I wished I could have known her better.

I don\'t enforce my beliefs on anyone else forcefully, but I just ask them to go outside and if they don\'t, I leave. I\'ve never tried smoking and I never will.

The more you know, the worse it gets.

 

[Sand Rat]

One of my grandfathers died of emphysema from a lifetime of smoking. The other one died of a massive heart attack - and was dead for six hours before he stopped moving. Course this was the same guy who had a jeep dropped on him by a crane operator during WWII.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

I agree.

Originally posted by darthfoley

Originally posted by johnboyjjb
The big difference in the law suits is that orignally Phillip-Morris denied the fact that their product was both addictive and deadly when they had proof that it was.

Well, how much proof does a potential smoker need to have?

I mean, how many people die, every year, etc etc etc...

Let\'s also not forget that doctors used to smoke in their offices...and used to tell overweight pregnant women to take up smoking to offset weight gain during pregnancy. Sue all of them too? How about suing the descendants of the Indians for introducing the white man to the stuff in the first place? Suing descendants of the plantation owners for turning it into one of the American South\'s biggest cash crops?

We could go on and on. I just think personal responsibility MIGHT should enter the equation somewhere. *shrug*

 

[johnboyjjb]

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha

I agree.

Originally posted by darthfoley

Originally posted by johnboyjjb
The big difference in the law suits is that orignally Phillip-Morris denied the fact that their product was both addictive and deadly when they had proof that it was.

Well, how much proof does a potential smoker need to have?

I mean, how many people die, every year, etc etc etc...

Let\'s also not forget that doctors used to smoke in their offices...and used to tell overweight pregnant women to take up smoking to offset weight gain during pregnancy. Sue all of them too? How about suing the descendants of the Indians for introducing the white man to the stuff in the first place? Suing descendants of the plantation owners for turning it into one of the American South\'s biggest cash crops?

We could go on and on. I just think personal responsibility MIGHT should enter the equation somewhere. *shrug*

All I was saying about the lawsuits is that for decades the tobacco industry new what was really going on back in the 20\'s, 30\'s, and 40\'s when people generally died of something else before the cigarettes took them out. Personal responsibility in these cases I would say is outwayed by the injustice of abusing an ignorant public. I would say that after the surgeon general started applying warnings to packaging you should have no claim to blame big-tobacco AT ALL. By then, the majority of people knew them to be dangerous. But I agree, you wouldn\'t sue the state for selling you a losing lotto ticket every week for years on end. But you might win . . .

 

[Dragonsreach]

Basically, you are born, you go to school, you go to work and then you die.

Yeah but why in the middle of all that should we haved to suffer from a bunch of dickheads!
This morning I\'m driving the 30+ miles to work and the git in the car in front of me throws out his cigarette butt out of his car window. It doesn\'t hit me but it hits the Motorcycle rider moving along side. Said rider then had to wobble all over the place to try to stop getting burnt from this Cigarette butt. I had to slam on brakes as motorcyclist is now dead centre in front of me and about to loose control. Result almost a collision due to one persons crass ignorance.
This time we were lucky Had there been an articulated truck behind me this morning I wouldn\'t be writing this! (or anything else again for that matter!)