And by the Way...

[mouse]

personally...

...if i find the stench of an obese with BO awful, can i ask that person to leave?

...if i find the stench of your perfume overpowering and unacceptable, can i ask that person to leave? or enjoy your perfume in the cold/heat before entering the place and please, no lingering smell...

...if i find that your kid is providing noise pollution, can i demand that you leave?

no offence on my examples, it\'s just annoying that non-smokers or quiters are targeting smokers! it\'s the habit that you don\'t like, the inconsiderate smokers that you adhor...but don\'t target a person for smoking...exhaust from a vehicle is just as bad...ban motor vehicles. unless you have no undesirable habits yourself...like picking your nose and wiping it under the seat or scratching your armpits in the public, don\'t be too quick to jump the gun.

it\'s interesting that porn can be considered more acceptable than smoking in a country...how sad.

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by mouse
...if i find the stench of an obese with BO awful, can i ask that person to leave?

it\'s interesting that porn can be considered more acceptable than smoking in a country...how sad.

1) Sure you can. You can also expect said person to try to eat you. :flip:

2) Porn = good.

 

[Nelson]

Originally posted by mouse
unless you have no undesirable habits yourself...like picking your nose and wiping it under the seat or scratching your armpits in the public, don\'t be too quick to jump the gun.

Godamn!! There goes my righteousness out the proverbial nostril!!

And I think that porn, while being atrocious, and a horrible influence on youngsters like me *cough, ahem*, it\'s not dangerous to your health except for some extreme cases, while smoking, like it or not, is. I mean, I would waay rather have my friends and family members look at porn (disturbing as that picture is) than smoke, as it\'s seriously detrimental to your health, and has way worse consequences than hairy hands and a floppy willy later in life!!

 

[DennisMech]

Originally posted by Nelson
And I think that porn, while being atrocious, and a horrible influence on youngsters like me *cough, ahem*, it\'s not dangerous to your health except for some extreme cases,

Owen here however, is a case in point of it being harmful to a person\'s health

 

[johnboyjjb]

Originally posted by Taer
i promise, no smokers are going to run you down and blow smoke in your face. They are nice people afterall. :flip::bouncy:

Besides, if they have been smoking long enough they shouldn\'t be able to catch you, unless you plan to sue McD\'s.

 

[mouse]

disturbing...

Originally posted by Nelson

Originally posted by mouse
unless you have no undesirable habits yourself...like picking your nose and wiping it under the seat or scratching your armpits in the public, don\'t be too quick to jump the gun.

Godamn!! There goes my righteousness out the proverbial nostril!!

And I think that porn, while being atrocious, and a horrible influence on youngsters like me *cough, ahem*, it\'s not dangerous to your health except for some extreme cases, while smoking, like it or not, is. I mean, I would waay rather have my friends and family members look at porn (disturbing as that picture is) than smoke, as it\'s seriously detrimental to your health, and has way worse consequences than hairy hands and a floppy willy later in life!!

lollol

mental health vs physical health.

 

[mule]

Originally posted by mouse
mental health vs physical health.

Well, you\'ve just got to prioritise

 

[torifile]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by Evil Dave
why do skinny people feel the need to laugh or slam obese people...I know some over weight women who would literally kill to have a body like a super model...

There is another side to this. My wife is 5\'3\" and just over 100 lbs. Overweight women sometimes say to her \"I hate you you\'re so skinny.\" She\'s decided her response should be: \"I hate you because you don\'t have a debilitating disease that causes severe pain, weight loss and hair loss. You are blessed with a body that works right and yet you throw it away by overeating.\"

I was (note the \"was\") always very thin growing up and as a teenager (I was under 100 lbs when I got married), and I can\'t tell you how many times people would say rude things to me about being thin. My most hated one was \"Are you anorexic or something?\" I was told that if I turned sideways I would disappear, slip down the shower drain hole, called a \"beanpole\", \"spaghetti girl\", things like that. I also frequently got the \"I hate you for being thin!\" one. I don\'t know why people (most) consider weight-related comments made to an overweight person rude, but think it is ok to say such things to a thin person. Some of those people when I was growing up were ruthless! I HATED being thin, and had no self-esteem because of it.

Now, years later, after quitting smoking, having a child, and going on medications, I am overweight. Believe it or not, I hear less comments about being bigger that I did when I was thin. Now I could care less what people think of the way I look, and prove it with bright magenta hair! I\'m much happier now.


PS- I\'m sorry your wife is in such pain

 

[torifile]

Originally posted by Evil Dave


My reason is this... YOU John Q. Public have no problem condeming these people to unfair tax\'s, unfair conditions, or anything else...as long as YOU are comfortable...YOU don\'t truly care about equality because you\'d have stood right there with the smokers and bar owners when they asked to leave some clubs as smoking designated.

YOU only care about YOURSELVES and cover it by saying \"It\'s more healthy for you in the long run. It\'s a disgusting habit.\"

So ,Yes, I side with the smokers because most of them are at least willing to meet you half way.

It has nothing to do with condemning anyone. I could care less what a smoker does to themselves; that is their business (unless it is someone I care about). From my standpoint it is a HEALTH ISSUE. When it comes down to a choice of sending someone out in the rain to smoke, or the asthmatic next to them being rushed to the hospital because they can\'t breath, I\'m sorry, I think someone getting a little cold and wet is worth lowering the danger to someone\'s life. It isn\'t a matter of \"you can\'t do it because I don\'t like it\", it is a matter of we would prefer you do it where it cannot affect others\' health and well-being.

I have no problem with some bars being designated as \"smoking\" as long as others are designated as \"smoke-free\". And I certainly don\'t think smokers should have to pay extra taxes to pay for lawsuits against the tobacco companies. Anyone who smokes knows the risks, and should be responsible for their own choices.

 

[torifile]

Originally posted by mule
Personally I wish Airlines would realise we are not all undernourished dwarfs (no offense to any of the vertically challenged out there), and increase their seat sizes accordingly. It would be nice to sit in a plane and not have to use both armrests.

Ditto for movie theater seats! But it comes down to money.....the more seats they can fit in , the more money they make.

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by torifile
I have no problem with some bars being designated as \"smoking\" as long as others are designated as \"smoke-free\". .

I\'ve been staying out of commenting here, having already reanted in the \"tobacco\" thread. All the arguements/discussions/opinions expressed here have been lcear and reasonable.

I find the one above somewhat disturbing, though. Bars are private businesses. The only people \"designating\" them anything are the people who own them!

Don\'t cry for the employees. They have a choice whether to work there or not. And don\'t cry for the patrons because they have the choice of frequenting the place or not. This is SUPPOSED to be a free-market economy, especially when your talking the scale of a bar. IF people don\'t want to go to a bar because it allows smoking, they won\'t go. If enough people don\'t go, teh buisiness folds. IF there were great masses of people refraining from going to bars because of the smoke, it would be a wise business move to open a smoke-free bar. That is the way our economy is supposed to work, not by \"designations\"

 

[torifile]

Originally posted by dauber22

Originally posted by torifile
I have no problem with some bars being designated as \"smoking\" as long as others are designated as \"smoke-free\". .

I\'ve been staying out of commenting here, having already reanted in the \"tobacco\" thread. All the arguements/discussions/opinions expressed here have been lcear and reasonable.

I find the one above somewhat disturbing, though. Bars are private businesses. The only people \"designating\" them anything are the people who own them!

Don\'t cry for the employees. They have a choice whether to work there or not. And don\'t cry for the patrons because they have the choice of frequenting the place or not. This is SUPPOSED to be a free-market economy, especially when your talking the scale of a bar. IF people don\'t want to go to a bar because it allows smoking, they won\'t go. If enough people don\'t go, teh buisiness folds. IF there were great masses of people refraining from going to bars because of the smoke, it would be a wise business move to open a smoke-free bar. That is the way our economy is supposed to work, not by \"designations\"

Wrong choice of word, I should have said \"allowed\" as oppossed to \"designated\".

What I mean is, they shouldn\'t be able to tell bar owners that they can\'t have a \"smoking\" bar.

 

[Sand Rat]

Yes brother Dauber, that is the way it is supposed to work but let me give you an example of how it worked in real life.

While I was going to college the second time I used to hang out in a coffe shop on the square in San Marcos. Being a coffe shop, they allowed me to indulge in two of my favorite vices after minis - caffine in mass quantities and its complimentary vice, my pipe. They also had really good food for reasonable prices (especially by the standards of college students).

Well, one day the owners hired a new manager. She proceeded to hire a group of individuals who were all militant vegans - the first things to disappear from the menu were the meat based items - the sandwiches and soups. Why? Not because the demand for them had lessened, but because the staff refused to handle meat. Well, we grumbled, but the owner said there was nothing she could do as the day to day running of the shop was in the hands of the manager and now the expenses were less than they had been before.

Then the manager tried to ban pipes and cigars. I found out about this lovely change of policy one day when I walked in and fired up my pipe to be told by the manager that those were no longer allowed inside because someone had been smoking some really cheap pipe tobacco in the shop. I looked at the 3 other pipe smokers who were regulars in the shop (and by regulars I mean we were there 5 or more days a week dropping 20-30 bucks a day apiece) who were all sitting there smoking cigarettes. About 20 minutes later the manager left and the owners husband came in - I walked over to him and asked him why he and his wife no longer wanted our business - he gave me a WTF look and asked what was going on - I explained, and his statement was \"I\'ll put a stop to that shit, go ahead and smoke\" in front of 20 or 30 folks, including the hippy behind the counter. He left and the manager walked in about an hour later and started in on the pipe smokeing - I told her to go talk to Mike, cause he said it was ok - off she went only to come back in, grab her stuff and storm out.

 

[GarnetJubilee]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
Kittykat
I notice you are from England...here in the States it is getting outrageous. There are some clubs/bars/pubs that smoking is illegal...however the owners were not asked if smoking could be allowed in their bars...some states and counties made the decsisions for them.

No the point of the forum was to point out that whatever our choice may be...It\'s still our choice.

I wasn\'t going to say anything on this thread until I got to this point, and I have to say that, as a non-smoker who used to work at a restaurant that allowed smoking, I was very glad when the city passed the no-smoking-in-restaurant law.

Let me explain why:

As a hostess, I worked in the lobby, which happened to separate the bar (the smoking area) from the non-smoking restaurant portion. This was all well-and-dandy for our non-smoking customers, but I had to stand next to the smoke-filled, poorly-ventillated room for 6-8 hours a night, and within the first hour, I had a migraine and by the end of the night my throat and eyes were exceedingly sore.

As a waitress, I occasionally had to work in the bar (unless I just didn\'t want to work at all, and not get paid) and it was about 10 times worse than being a hostess, because I\'d also smell terrible by the time my shift was over. Being a girl with longish hair, it was especially bad when my hair would start smelling of smoke--gag me all the way home!

Now, I might also point out that I have had two boyfriends in the past who smoked and inflicted their habit on me in one way or another--for which I received much flak from my mother, but I do not complain about--hanging out with THOSE people was my choice. It was not my choice to stand in the lobby of marie callender\'s and suffer because someone couldn\'t make it through a 30 minute meal without smoking.

The reality is, people who work in those restuarants that have smoking \"sections\" (as if the smoke actually stays there), need the money from those jobs and often do not have a choice whether they have to work in a smoking section or not (or if they do, they will probably suffer discriminiation for it).

I just spent a weekend in Las Vegas and it made me so glad that I live in Oregon where they have laws against smoking in malls, restaurants, and airports. It also makes me so thankful that airlines have done away with the \"smoking section.\" It makes my life so much more pleasant. Why should my day be ruined because some smoker wants to kill himself?

I agree that people shouldn\'t walk up to smokers and tell them that they have disgusting habits that are killing them, but I believe I\'m perfectly within my rights to tell the bozo who is standing next to the door of my classroom building, under the sign that says \"no smoking within 15 feet\" that they are polluting my air. (not that I do--I\'m a coward and I just hold my breath until I\'m inside the building..).

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by torifile

When it comes down to a choice of sending someone out in the rain to smoke, or the asthmatic next to them being rushed to the hospital because they can\'t breath

I was gonna quit this topic but...

Now why would a severe asthmatic go to a place where he knows there will be smoking? Why would anyone who doesn\'t like smoke?

If I were allergic to sunlight...going out at noon would be pretty uncomfortable, if not fatal, therefore I would not do it.

If i was diabetic and could not eat sugar,
I would not.

Is this unfair for these types of people...to be responsible for what they eat, where they go? They deal with it.

Take responsibility for your own health do not blame us if you know the consequences but do it anyway.
Just as we must asume responsibity for our choices so must you.

Why did they not make non smoking bars...because the assumption by a militant few that it was ok...and you know what they say about assumption...
it makes an ass outa u and mption.

 

[Evil Dave]

and just personally...

I know that toxic waste dumps probably have things in them that I will dislike...therefore I stay away, but I will not hamper anyones choice to go throw a party there if they wish.
By you guys responses, I would guess you\'d know the risk, but go to the party anyway...and then be really pissed off about that nasty toxic waste later.

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by steelcult
- off she went only to come back in, grab her stuff and storm out.

The sad part is, I\'m sure she was convinced that she was being oppressed! That it wasn\'t her fault for trying to ruin this persons business.
After all, she and everyone she knew probably believed that way, therefore everyone, like it or not, should believe that way.

 

[TwelveMilesOut]

Originally posted by GarnetJubilee
It was not my choice to stand in the lobby of marie callender\'s and suffer because someone couldn\'t make it through a 30 minute meal without smoking.

The reality is, people who work in those restuarants that have smoking \"sections\" (as if the smoke actually stays there), need the money from those jobs and often do not have a choice whether they have to work in a smoking section or not (or if they do, they will probably suffer discriminiation for it).

First Ottowa and now Oregon!

Perhaps this is not technically slavery, but apparently restaurant workers have been conditioned in the same way streetwalkers are. How does that \"stop hooking\" speech go? Oh, yeah:

There are other options. You don\'t have to live like this, there is a better way. You don\'t have to sell your body every night. You\'re not worthless. Go back to school. Your life will only get better.

That said, some jobs are just dangerous and they usually pay better. For example, before I got my current job I worked in a grocery store. I was always warm, rarely had to carry anything more than 50 pounds, and was never placed in physical danger by my employer. I didn\'t make enough money, so I got the job I have now.

I\'m the cable guy. Now I\'ve gotten frostbite at work, have to carry a 120 pound ladder through knee-deep (or deeper) snow several times a day, and frequently find myself hanging 40 feet in the air without another human being in sight. I smile when I open my paychecks.

Should I lobby to outlaw sub-zero temperatures? Should I try to make heavy ladders illegal? Should I call OSHA and whine about the fact that I don\'t have a spotter when I go up a pole? As a self-respecting person, I would go back to my grocery store job before I would expect my employer or my government to remove conditions I was aware of before I took the job.

 

[Sand Rat]

True - and if we had been smoking a certain controlled substance she would have supported us 100%.

 

[torifile]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by torifile

When it comes down to a choice of sending someone out in the rain to smoke, or the asthmatic next to them being rushed to the hospital because they can\'t breath

I was gonna quit this topic but...

Now why would a severe asthmatic go to a place where he knows there will be smoking? Why would anyone who doesn\'t like smoke?

I

I knew you couldn\'t stay away...lol

You seem to be repeatedly missing the point.....that there are many public places (ie. outside almost ANY public building, be it grocery store, pharmacy, community center, etc.) where you CANNOT escape the clouds of smoke hovering around the entryways. Some of these places are not choices, but necessities to visit (grocery stores for one). I specifcally stated that said asthmatics DID NOT go the \"smoking places\", but you keep repeating \"its your choice to go the the smoking areas\". Its everywhere, whether we want it or not, get it????