Argh...ring around the wash

[MrMorden]

I\'m having trouble with my washes.

When I wash stuff, it all looks great...until the paint/ink dries. The wash dries so that instead of filling in the detail, it forms rings around the edges of the valleys.

I assume this is a surface tension issue with the water I mix with. Is there something I can add to the water in my washes to prevent this disasterous outcome?

It\'s to the point I don\'t like to use washes at all, but I know it\'s a good technique to use, and I don\'t want to abandon it...

Thanks!

 

[Ritz]

Try putting a drop of watered down (about 3 parts water to 1 part wax) future floor wax into your wash. This helps me out alot. Some times it makes the paint or wash shiny though, I just spray my mini with a flat clear after Im done painting and that fixes it.

 

[MrMorden]

Ah, the future wax...

I\'ve heard that Future Wax can be used for everything from mixing paints to curing cancer on this board...

\"Future is a floor wax...no, it\'s a dessert topping...floor wax!...desert topping!...\"

So what IS the deal with this stuff? What applications is it good for, other than the wash tip (thanks, BTW, I\'ll try it)?

Andy

 

[finn17]

Looking into the future...

From what I can gather, and I am not an expert on floor polishes, is that future is a very economical water-based acrylic medium that can be used to thin your paints and make washes etc. It is often referred to as the \'Magic Wash\' as I think this product is called \'magic\' in the States. There is an article about this product on another site, I am sure someone will provide a link, if not I will look it up later.
It\'s major benefit seems to be it\'s price as it is a very cheap way to buy this sort of product. It\'s disadvantages are it apparently tastes like sh*t so don\'t lick your brushes. It also leaves a glossy finish. Well it would, wouldn\'t it?
Personally I prefer to use airbrush medium. It seems to be a similar sort of stuff, but is deliberately designed to be used with paints. It tastes OK and does not dry glossy. It is more expensive but hell, one small bottle will still last ages.
I generally add three things to paints, apart from water:

1) Airbrush medium to thin whilst retain consistency and predictability.

2) Flo-aid, which is just basically dear washing up liquid. It serves to break surface tension

3) An acrylic retarder to extend drying times.

I don\'t necessarily use them all together, but I have mixed all three together in the past to form an all purpose additive:bouncy:

 

[WaferThinNinja]

Washes

I\'ve never got on well with washes so perhaps I\'m not the best person to advise, but it sounds to me like you maybe are just sploshing too much on. This fills the \"valley\" with liquid and the ring is kind of like the ring in a mug of coffee thats been left standing for too long.

Put less of the wash on your brush, and brush it only into the valleys rather than using volume of wash to fill them up.

If you put too much on and can see a \"puddle\" in the valley, dry your brush and use it to suck out the excess wetness. Like everything I guess it comes down to practice.

Hope this is useful.

 

[MrMorden]

Thanks, Ninja...but I don\'t think that\'s it.

I\'ve tried everything from putting LOTS of wash on to barely loading the brush at all and just filling in the valleys. No matter what I try, I get a ring to some degree.

Maybe the Georgia water is just inferior...???

I\'ll try some dish liquid and some Future and see what happens.

Thanks!

Andy

 

[jam]

Future Floor Wax

Future Floor Wax, from everything I have seen, is essentially clear acrylic paint.

The Magic part only comes in because it does work wonders with washes and other thinning. Using a diluted mix allows washes to be thinned to the appropriate consistency without the ring around the wash surface tension problem you describe. The additional binder in the wax keeps the wash where you want it. It is shiny, but well worth not having the hassle of the wash not stay where you want it.

It is plain old future floor wax, available in most grocery or other stores. It is probably tucked on the bottom shelf in the cleaner section, even lowlier than Pine Sol as far as cleaners go.

One warning - the stuff tastes TERRIBLE if you forget and lick your brushes.

-jam

 

[mouse]

floor wax...

...curing cancer??!??

personally, i never tried it but i definitely used watered down mild washing detergent. it definitely works.

don\'t blame your georgia water.

 

[finn17]

Actually, that is a good point...

Originally posted by MrMorden
Maybe the Georgia water is just inferior...???Andy

Water does vary enormously. I stopped using tap water a long time ago when I lived in an area where limescale was a major problem. I started to buy bottled distilled/de-ionised water from hardware stores. The type of stuff that is normally used in lead-acid batteries and irons (\'An iron is a device for removing wrinkles from clothes\' -my wife asked me to mention that. I then explained to her that, \'a lead-acid battery is a device for starting cars\'. One-all I believe) .
If you are having problems, it may well be worth trying this as a possible solution. Nothing to lose apart from a couple of cents:bouncy:

 

[U4-Welcome]

Yep, that\'s one-all for sure ! lol
Thanks for the dish detergent thingie tip, I\'ll have to try it, because I\'ve had the exact same problem with washes, to the point I don\'t use them anymore. All layering, yay, with frigging paints drying up on my palette by the time I apply half a layer. Not to mention I\'m trying to blend black, the bane of all smooth transitions. *cough* Excuse me for this outburst.
Um, btw, how much detergent ? I don\'t want any soap bubbles on my mini ... :bouncy:

 

[Hiemdal]

I had the exact same problem, especially with flesh wash on Dwarf hands!

It was caused by hard water. I have actually found that this can be made worse by adding washing up liquid.

Since I hav been using distilled water I have had no more problems.

 

[finn17]

\'Flow aids\'

Originally posted by U4-WelcomeUm, btw, how much detergent ? I don\'t want any soap bubbles on my mini ... :bouncy:

I have come across this sort of thing in two different hobbies. When developing celluloid film, one is supposed to add a \'wetting agent\' which you can either pay through the nose for, or use washing up liquid.

In painting, \'flow aid\' is supposed to do \'what it says on the tin\' but in actual fact is pretty much the same thing. A chemical that prevents surface tension.

Standard washing up liquid works just as well IMO. You really need a tiny amount, and I mean tiny. 1-2 drops per half-pint.
At these quantities I have ended up eventually buying wetting agent and flow aid, because once bought they last for donkeys years.

 

[freakinacage]

the link you want is:
http://www.paintingclinic.com/
dr faust\'s painting clinic. he has some articles on magic wash on the site. he also told me once that rubbign alcohol can be used as well because i whined at him becuase i couldn\'t find future in the uk. for those brits out there who don\'t know - it\'s called klear.

andy - i had the same trouble you did - drove me nuts. still when you try this, the pain will go away :duh:

 

[Flashman14]

a simpler answer?

hmmmm - when I ever got rings around the wash it was because I had allowed the water to puddle.

Why don\'t you disallow pooling on your mini?

Try it anyway and see what happens . . .

 

[vincegamer]

distilled water

Originally posted by finn17
I started to buy bottled distilled/de-ionised water from hardware stores.

In the states at least, this is also available in grocery stores. I buy it at 99cents per gallon.
Tap water has all sorts of things in it for killing bacteria and adding minerals and if you use a filter you are adding other stuff while taking out the chlorine.
Also if your pipes are old you can get metal residue.
So only use distilled water in your paint (and any thinner specifically designed for paint).

 

[Seth Gecko]

I have to agree about tap water, I was having terrible problems with the paint I was mixing with tap water being really grainy. I bought a bottle of De-ionised water and the problem has gone

 

[finn17]

Sound economic sense..

Originally posted by vincegamer
In the states at least, this is also available in grocery stores. I buy it at 99cents per gallon.

When you work out how much paint costs...(hold on.....think...think)
:idea:a gallon of scab red, or any other colour you choose will cost you 553 British pounds or $892!!!

99c for a gallon of pure water to mix it with sounds like a real bargain to me.
:bouncy:

Crikey, no wonder Games Workshop are rich:flame:

 

[Hiemdal]

becuase i couldn\'t find future in the uk. for those brits out there who don\'t know - it\'s called klear.

They sell it in Tescos, so anybody should be able to get it.

Although I would be very very carefull wth rubbing alcohol/surgical spirit. I use it as a de-greaser (when brake/clutch cleaner will melt whatever I\'m cleaning) and some brands leave an oily residue... I know alcohol mixes with water, but oild doesn\'t. Also, alcohol can act like a fast drying agent.

 

[Nomis]

Originally posted by Hiemdal

becuase i couldn\'t find future in the uk. for those brits out there who don\'t know - it\'s called klear.

They sell it in Tescos, so anybody should be able to get it.

So I didn\'t need to drag that bottle of Future all the way back from Florida last year?

Are you sure about Klear being the same? - I checked all the domestic floor products about a year ago and my recollection of Klear was that it had a very strong disinfectant/bleach smell - very unlike the Future smell.


- I haven\'t tasted either products by the way:|~


I have found my main use for Future it is to varnish a figure once complete - I then go over it again with Humbrol Matt Cote.

 

[AAvH-Darkblade]

Originally posted by Hiemdal
I had the exact same problem, especially with flesh wash on Dwarf hands!

It was caused by hard water. I have actually found that this can be made worse by adding washing up liquid.

Since I hav been using distilled water I have had no more problems.

Exactly what I found, that and too much clorine in the water, I started using distilled water as well.