Astrology: Fact or Fiction?

Duende

New member
A friend and I have been talking about astrological signs recently, and I\'ve been wondering how much credibility everyone gives the belief that your life is determined by the stars.

Personally, the rational part of my mind says it\'s a bunch of bunk, and no pinpoints of light in the sky determine who or what I am. But then the irrational part of me points out that I am so much like my own sign, it\'s scary. Not only on the Greek zodiac (I\'m a Taurus) but also the Chinese zodiac (where I\'m a Pig! :( )

So, how much do you believe? Are there any other \"-ologies\" you show an interest in? And anyone know any good sign links? I\'m too lazy to look right now. :D
 

EricJ

Active member
yay, astology, I actually know more about it than I actually believe in it...due to a slightly crazy girlfriend back in college.

Here is a help to see that Astology says about you

Astology

I\'m actually a triple libra (sun, moon, and rising signs) but unless you have the astology software, it\'s hard to figure out much more than your sun sign.

Down with Gemini! :rolleyes: (sorry Margo)
 

Jambot13

New member
I very much agree with Kyle Reese’s analysis in Terminator: \"there’s no fate but what we make for ourselves\". I’d hate to think that what I do is in any way dictated by anything, be that the stars, a God, or indeed common sense!

Despite this I am rather interested in astrology. Like many things I have no real belief in it is packed with interesting and entertaining ideas and has also spawned some absolutely fascinating mentalists, whose exploits are always entertaining to follow. Take the Russian astrologer who has filed a lawsuit against NASA, because their Deep Impact experiment has caused her “moral sufferings” and “deformed her horrorscope”. The cost of such a crime should she win? A cool $300 million! Brilliant stuff!

As for other ologies, I did have an interest in pharmacology when I was a student but I’ve moved on. It wasn’t helping my miniature painting one bit!
 

EricJ

Active member
Originally posted by Jambot13
I very much agree with Kyle Reese’s analysis in Terminator: \"there’s no fate but what we make for ourselves\".

However, didn\'t fate give you the personality traits and tools to make your own future?

A lot of Astology is not saying the stars say what will happen, but explains how fate created you.

weeee, more being devils advocate :D
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
a load of guff

not a believer myself. am a scientist so i can see no way that the time of year you are born affects you that much. i find that the descriptions are vague enough that they could apply to most. don\'t get me wrong it\'s fun (and i do tend to read my signs in the girly mags, my housemates leave around)
 

Shawn R. L.

New member
A ball of gas-dust-ice-rock whizzing thru space is has no influence on our being other than a slight gravitational pull and disasterous consequenses if we happen to be on the same trajectory!
I\'m learning sleight of hand right now (coins and cards) and it\'s sad how simple the \'knowlege\' of fortune telling and such come upon. Often the person getting the fortune told actually gives the fortune teller the awnser to their question and the \'seeer\' simply rephrases it and gives it back to them. Much of astorlogy is couched in such broad terms that you could read almost anything into it - \"Big change is comming soon\". Well, life is change. Something, near or far, is ALWAYS changing so it can always be accurate. Put not your faith not in the stars but in the one who made the stars.
 

Sakura

New member
My two best friends are Gemini, and they don\'t have anything in common, really. So I don\'t believe in it. I\'m not much like I should according to my sign either.
 

Jambot13

New member
Originally posted by EricJ
However, didn\'t fate give you the personality traits and tools to make your own future?

A lot of Astology is not saying the stars say what will happen, but explains how fate created you.

weeee, more being devils advocate :D
I put my initial genetic makeup down to science. Sure, you could argue that even this had to be started somewhere and fate could have played a hand, but then you are getting into the kind of territory that\'s going to require someone like Stephen Hawking to offer a satisfactory answer!

I suppose that in my formative years I was influenced by my family and others around me, which played a part in moulding me into the cantankerous swine I am now, so outside influence has played a part in my life.

Once I reached a certain age and level of independence though I’m pretty sure I took over control of my own fate.
 

War Griffon

New member
Wouldn\'t say I am a true believer. I am typical of my star sign though in a lot of ways (Cancer) but the daily drival given out for star signs in the papers etc just isn\'t worth the paper.

As far as the Chinese star signs go I was born in the year of the rat! Does that me a Skaven?:D

Although I do not actually believe in Astrology for day to day life I do believe there is something out there and have been known to visit a very good fortune teller/cristal/palmist.
 

vincegamer

Active member
Did somebody say assology?
*bwomchakabwomchaka*

I read a bunch of this in highschool. I was amazed at how much I was like my sign. Then I read the others and was amazed how much I was like every other sign too!
The descriptives are general enough to apply to anyone.

I have also read that since most of the basis was designed when we didn\'t know much about the movement of the universe, it was based on an idea of an unchanging universe. Now we know that most of the astrological charts are wrong because they don\'t accomodate for the relative repositioning of the stars over the past several hundred years.

Shakespeare said it best:
\"our faults are in our selves, not in our stars\"
 

Modderrhu

New member
A quasi-science that is an attempt for people to understand themselves and the world around them, to give themselves reasons for being who they are, a semblance of structure and a sense of purpose and destiny. Just like numerology and that Human Pin Code diatribe, it\'s something to believe in, like any religion. Except these \'alternative\' systems purport to a logical and scientific basis, even though logic and science scream against them. Oh yeah, and even a pure scientist uses science as a religion, that\'s where his faith is. And by \'science\', I mean any school of thought that has a testable and logical basis.

If astrology ever gave provable and predictable results, no matter how general, it would gain credibility. But with no proof, no prediction, no way to test, it remains as airy-fairy as the shaky foundations it is based on.

If numerology allowed for more than 729 personality types, destinys, life-styles and moralities, it might claim some of the acceptance that astrology has had, but it too is hampered by the shaky premisis on which it is based.

The issue that I have with astrology is that it claims a scientific basis, then swiftly abandons that claim when necessary. These systems just don\'t stand up to scrutiny - period.
 

Margo

New member
Originally posted by EricJDown with Gemini! :rolleyes: (sorry Margo)

Hey! Don\'t even go there, you Libra! :D :D :D

As for the question addressed in this topic, I\'m not sure. Yet every description of Gemini seems to be written about me personally. So there must be some kind of a link, I guess.
 
S

Sturmhalo

Guest
Originally posted by EricJ
yay, astology, I actually know more about it than I actually believe in it...due to a slightly crazy girlfriend back in college.

Here is a help to see that Astology says about you

Astology

I\'m actually a triple libra (sun, moon, and rising signs) but unless you have the astology software, it\'s hard to figure out much more than your sun sign.

Down with Gemini! :rolleyes: (sorry Margo)

Is Astology similar to Astrology at all?
 

Garyo

New member
What I liked the most about the astrology link posted is sharing my birthday with David Lynch and Fellini how cool and perverse is that. \"Buzz\" Aldrin is pretty cool too, but not perverse :D

Other than that you make your own way.

Garyo
 

MarkusTay

New member
My father taught Astrology at a temple years ago. If you don\'t understand something please don\'t call it \"magical mumbo-jumbo\". I don\'t understand Quantum physics or micro-biology but I wouldn\'t belittle them because of my ignorance.

The horoscopes in the newspaper, and most of the TV Astrologgers/fortune tellers either use a primitive \'Natal\' chart desribing broad groups of people, or are just full of shit altogether.

The human is composed of three elemants (mystical number there) and they are: Body, Mind, and Soul. Whether you are a scientist or study mysticism, it is a given fact EVERYTHING in the universe affects everything else on a subtle sub-atomic level. We know that all celestial bodies (and everything else for that matter) produces an enormous gravitational field. So strong, in fact, that it can even bend light. Therefore, everything affects us physically (The Body). Is it such a great leap to think that these things also affect us mentally and spiritually? Hundreds of trillions of things in the cosmos all subtley pulling at us all the time.

Now, if the \'human\' is composed of three elements, then the human persona is determined by three things: Genetics, Upbringing, AND TIME OF BIRTH. Genetics is what gives you your physical make-up and therefore ties into the body. Upbringing affects rational thought and therefore determines the Mind. But the time of Birth... the EXACT moment you were born... affects you spiritually. All those cosmic forces focusing down on one tiny human being, all pushing and pulling at the human soul like so much silly-putty.

If you think this is anti-Christian, then think about this: Who put all those stars and planets up there in the first place? Do we still have free will? Of course! Genetics, Environment, and Astrological projections only give us a road map, we can make a wrong turn any time we want. But we always find our way back to the main road eventually...

If we were to combine the Genome Project with Physchological profiling AND Astrology we could probably determine EXACTLY what everyone was going to do and say during the course of their entire lives...

In fact, I\'m working on that right now... ;)







Or, I could just be crazy and full of shit... the choice is yours.

lol:bouncy::flip:
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by MarkusTay
Or, I could just be crazy and full of shit... the chose is yours.

so many choices...

I\'ve always been a bit cynical towards astrology. I honestly don\'t understand it very much, which accounts for my doubting.

I mean how can people in different parts of the world have \'similar\' traits just because they were born under the same sign...

Take me and Dauber for instance...Many have claimed that we are the same person, we have so many similarities, that it is downright spooky.

But according to \'astrology\' he\'d have to have the same sign as I do.

I am a Gemini, what are you Dauber??
 

tzor

New member
I don\'t personally believe in Astrology. It\'s not that I am one to simply throw it away sight unseen, because I admit that I do now know real astrology, but that I think one would need to create a reasonable double blind system in order to have a chance to make a case for its accuracy.

It\'s not enough for a science to sound scientific. There used to be a science that claimed to predict criminial behavior based on the bumps on your head. A lot of people were devoted to this science. That didn\'t make it either right or accurate.

One thing that bothers me is that astrology is based on birth, but that is such a minor event in the life of a person. It\'s hard to see how the universe would be atuned to this event, as opposed to say fertalization or even implantation.
 

Rab

Member
Originally posted by MarkusTay
The human is composed of three elemants (mystical number there) and they are: Body, Mind, and Soul. Whether you are a scientist or study mysticism, it is a given fact EVERYTHING in the universe affects everything else on a subtle sub-atomic level.
Sorry Markus, but you\'re wrong on that, the only \'universal\' force is gravity, the electromagnetic and strong & weak nuclear forces act on charged particles, and sub-atomic particles respectively. Only gravity acts on all matter, irrespective of type and at the sub-atomic level, gravity is so weak as to be virtually ignored.
We know that all celestial bodies (and everything else for that matter) produces an enormous gravitational field. So strong, in fact, that it can even bend light.
Gravity is an extremely weak force, it\'s only around truly massive bodies that the effect is observeable. Whilst it\'s true that human beings generate gravitational forces, they are so small as to be immeasureable. Bending light is no great trick, the spectacles that I\'m wearing right now, bend light as do prisms, fibre optic cables, the Earth\'s atmosphere and water.
Therefore, everything affects us physically (The Body).
Doubtful, otherwise we\'d be taller when the moon was directly overhead.
Is it such a great leap to think that these things also affect us mentally and spiritually? Hundreds of trillions of things in the cosmos all subtley pulling at us all the time.
You\'re presuming that there is a \'spiritual\' aspect to humanity, which is debateable in itself. As for the celestial objects \'pulling at us\', the only heavenly bodies to exert a measureable effect on us are the Sun, the Earth, the Moon and, to a tiny extent, Venus. The rest of the planets make no difference to our orbit, the force of gravity varies with the sum of the masses and inversely with the square of the distance. So the force decays exponentially as they are moved apart.
Now, if the \'human\' is composed of three elements, then the human persona is determined by three things: Genetics, Upbringing, AND TIME OF BIRTH. But the time of Birth... the EXACT moment you were born... affects you spiritually. All those cosmic forces focusing down on one tiny human being, all pushing and pulling at the human soul like so much silly-putty.
This is the part there\'s no evidence for, no-one has ever provided a convincing argument for the time and place of birth determining a person\'s characteristics. Vague references to celestial bodies, gravity and quantum physics just don\'t cut it as a scientific explanation.
In order to be a true science, astrology has to be able to make predictions from a hypothesis and then test those predictions in experiments, if that can\'t be done then it isn\'t a science, it\'s a belief system. This is where astrology appears to fall down, it provides no testable theories and therefore cannot be falsified and as such, cannot be regarded as a science.
If we were to combine the Genome Project with Physchological profiling AND Astrology we could probably determine EXACTLY what everyone was going to do and say during the course of their entire lives...
Probably not, if the effects at a quantum level are taken into account (as you claim they must be) then Heisenberg\'s Uncertainty Principle comes into play and as such, no exact prediction of the outcome of any event can be made.
In fact, I\'m working on that right now... ;)
Now that I\'d be interested in :D

That got a bit heavy didn\'t it? I\'m not getting at you Markus, but it bugs me when people use incorrect scientific assertions to prop up un-scientific theories. There may be something to astrology, it\'s certainly possible, maybe in the future new evidence will come to light which will prove the theory, but at this point in time, none of our existing physical laws support it.

Oh, in case you hadn\'t guessed yet, I don\'t believe in astrology :D

Rab.
 
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