Atheists

[frenchkid]

From my point of vue (which would explain the original response), when you set a norm, wether it be in philosophie or in mathematiques, you are setting somthing that should be. If you are outside the norm you are abnormal. Quote from my english dictionary:
Abnormal: not normal (Barnes and Nobles dictionary)

Try telling someone black that he\'s outside the norm because there is a majority of people, I\'m pretty sure he won\'t be too happy about it. Same applies here.

Now if the original meaning was, outside the majority, like I said, I have no probleme with that.


Edit: A search on wikepedia for nomality also gives quit an interesting list for \'not normal\' all of them pejorative.

 

[funnymouth]

well, i know im a \"left wing freak,\" but i still want to throw my 2 cents in.

my opinion:
there is no correlation between religion and morality. atheists are just as capable of being \"good\" (kind and compassionate) people as those who believe in god. love and empathy are human values, not religious ones.

an interesting story:
my fiances brother recently told me he has been going to church since he joined the army. his reason? coercion. apparently christians get sunday mornings off for mass - while everyone else runs laps, and works. the result? everyone is a \"christian.\"

granting people additional rights while denying others, based on religious creed -> discrimination.

what do you think?

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by funnymouth
well, i know im a \"left wing freak,\" but i still want to throw my 2 cents in.

my opinion:
there is no correlation between religeon and morality. atheists are just as capable of being \"good\" (kind and compassionate) people as those who believe in god. love and empathy are human values, not religeous ones.

an interesting story:
my fiances brother recently told me he has been going to church since he joined the army. his reason? coercion. apparently christians get sunday mornings off for mass - while everyone else runs laps, and works. the result? everyone is a \"christian.\"

granting people additional rights while denying others, based on religeous creed -> discrimination.

what do you think?

This sounds funny to me. When I was in the Army we had some details on Sunday, during training, but plenty of guys did not attend church and were left alone. Sundays were usually days of \"no scheduled training\" And this was in the Infantry Training Brigade. I can\'t imagine a basic training installation that is heavier-handed than the Infantry. (we had no females on the installation so alot less PC issues). My entire stint in the military I saw the DOD go far out of their way to accept other religious beliefs and provide alternate services for Muslims, Jews, and other faiths. What some people forget is that once you volunteer, you belong to the Army and their prime concern is maintaining combat strength. One Muslim/Jew/Greek orthodox soldier on a post in the middle of nowhere will likely not have their own chaplain as it is not THE priority. I have been stationed in places with no chaplain. Needs of the Army. The Army is very good; however, about having many chaplains anytime combat deployment occurs.

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by Duende
I can respect Christians, so long as they as like Christians (I\'ve seen way too many hypocrites

It is a core tenet of the Christian faith that it is impossible for human beings to not be hypocrites. We believe the only perfect Christian was Christ. Just wanted to clarify as I hear this alot.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by matty1001
I no this is probably stupid...but...with all this religion debate going on, is my signature offending anybody? I know its just a quote, but i can easily take it off?

I was offended. I\'m offended by any quote that doesn\'t name the source. Just stick a little \"-Tony Soprano\" after it for gods\' sake
(or whoever said it on the show)

p.s.: Humanist AHA

 

[matty1001]

Sorry Vince Now im definately going to hell in a hand basket

 

[Torn blue sky]

Touche\' Vince.

@Duende: OI! I shower at least once a day! Granted my choice of aftershave and deoderant might be considered offensive to some..
And Sephiroth is definately my fave all time villain too. It\'s actually a bit obsessive. Just cant resist buying sepheroth figs wherever I find them I need help! (But we knew that anyway :yes: )

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by philologus


This sounds funny to me. When I was in the Army we had some details on Sunday, during training, but plenty of guys did not attend church and were left alone. Sundays were usually days of \"no scheduled training\" And this was in the Infantry Training Brigade. I can\'t imagine a basic training installation that is heavier-handed than the Infantry. (we had no females on the installation so alot less PC issues). My entire stint in the military I saw the DOD go far out of their way to accept other religious beliefs and provide alternate services for Muslims, Jews, and other faiths. What some people forget is that once you volunteer, you belong to the Army and their prime concern is maintaining combat strength. One Muslim/Jew/Greek orthodox soldier on a post in the middle of nowhere will likely not have their own chaplain as it is not THE priority. I have been stationed in places with no chaplain. Needs of the Army. The Army is very good; however, about having many chaplains anytime combat deployment occurs.

good to know. he is kind of a liar, and well known for exaggeration. i couldnt imagine that the army wouldnt try to keep all their people happy as clams (when you give people guns and teach them how to use them, its always a good idea to keep them happy).

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by funnymouth(when you give people guns and teach them how to use them, its always a good idea to keep them happy).

Or at least too busy and exhausted to notice they aren\'t happy.

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by funnymouth

Originally posted by philologus


This sounds funny to me. When I was in the Army we had some details on Sunday, during training, but plenty of guys did not attend church and were left alone. Sundays were usually days of \"no scheduled training\" And this was in the Infantry Training Brigade. I can\'t imagine a basic training installation that is heavier-handed than the Infantry. (we had no females on the installation so alot less PC issues). My entire stint in the military I saw the DOD go far out of their way to accept other religious beliefs and provide alternate services for Muslims, Jews, and other faiths. What some people forget is that once you volunteer, you belong to the Army and their prime concern is maintaining combat strength. One Muslim/Jew/Greek orthodox soldier on a post in the middle of nowhere will likely not have their own chaplain as it is not THE priority. I have been stationed in places with no chaplain. Needs of the Army. The Army is very good; however, about having many chaplains anytime combat deployment occurs.

good to know. he is kind of a liar, and well known for exaggeration. i couldnt imagine that the army wouldnt try to keep all their people happy as clams (when you give people guns and teach them how to use them, its always a good idea to keep them happy).

Wasn\'t trying to impugn your friends veracity. I just haven\'t had this experience. I have seen people who were not religious attend church merely to avoid the CHANCE of extra details. But Sunday details were rare as they meant that DI\'s had to supervise and they wanted Sundays off as well. The one that was usually on duty was according to a rotation.

 

[wiccanpony]

I think a lot depends on how liberal the Chaplain is, I know the Military has a handbook spelling out the Pagan/Wiccan beliefs and how to accommodate them.

All most Pagans need is a quiet place to meditate and perhaps a few simple tools...athame (plastic knife), cup (paper), candle ( lighter) and not even these are really necessary ...your belief is in you heart and can be practiced anywhere, anytime and no middle man.

 

[r2j1]

Originally posted by hakoMike

Originally posted by No Such Agency
\"I don\'t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.\"
- George W. Bush.

Actually, from what I can tell this quote was from his father, George H.W. Bush, in 1987.
http://www.skeptictank.org/gbush.htm

You are correct it was the elder Bush that said that back when he ran for president back in in 87. It\'s a quote alot of people like to use discredit \"W\" becuse, lets face it, that is a dumb statement.

In fact \"W\", when speaking with some German media recently, is quoted as saying (and you can just tell it\'s him from the poor structure of the statment )

\"The President\'s job is never to promote a religion. The great thing about America -- and Germany, for that matter -- is that you should be able to worship freely. I like to tell people, you\'re equally American whether you\'re a Jew, Muslim, Christian, or Atheist -- you\'re equally all Americans -- and that if we ever lose that, we begin to look like the Taliban.\" George W Bush

NowI\'m a bit sceptical whether he belive or practices what he is preaching here, but at least it is the right thing to say.

 

[Bloodfinger]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by matty1001
I no this is probably stupid...but...with all this religion debate going on, is my signature offending anybody? I know its just a quote, but i can easily take it off?

I was offended. I\'m offended by any quote that doesn\'t name the source. Just stick a little \"-Tony Soprano\" after it for gods\' sake
(or whoever said it on the show)

p.s.: Humanist AHA

The correct quote is \"For God\'s sake, we bend more rules than the Catholic church.\" And it was said by Johnny Sack.

 

[matty1001]

Cheers couldnt remember who said it! Il update it now.

 

[Duende]

Originally posted by philologus

Originally posted by Duende
I can respect Christians, so long as they as like Christians (I\'ve seen way too many hypocrites

It is a core tenet of the Christian faith that it is impossible for human beings to not be hypocrites. We believe the only perfect Christian was Christ. Just wanted to clarify as I hear this alot.

1. OK, it was supposed to say \"as long as they ACT like Christians...\" sorry, typo.

2. What about members of the KKK? They think they\'re model Christians as burn crosses, vandalize, threaten and terroize those they don\'t think \"belong\".

3. What about the father whose a deacon in his church, but decided his children need \"the fear of God\" put into them with daily beatings. (true story, I know the now-grown child)

How are these people \"Christians\"? Are they really, or just \"not perfect\".

Just curious.

 

[finn17]

I don\'t believe in reincarnation...

But I am convinced I have met a few \'old souls\' in my time. Many more arse souls however...

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by frenchkid
From my point of vue (which would explain the original response), when you set a norm, wether it be in philosophie or in mathematiques, you are setting somthing that should be. If you are outside the norm you are abnormal. Quote from my english dictionary:
Abnormal: not normal (Barnes and Nobles dictionary)

Try telling someone black that he\'s outside the norm because there is a majority of people, I\'m pretty sure he won\'t be too happy about it. Same applies here.

Now if the original meaning was, outside the majority, like I said, I have no probleme with that.

Edit: A search on wikepedia for nomality also gives quit an interesting list for \'not normal\' all of them pejorative.

Some of the confussion can be in terminology. \"Norm\" and \"Normal\" are not the same thing. The opposite of Normal is Abnormal. \"Norm\" however is a sociology term.

From Wikipedia: \"A norm is an expectation of how people will behave\"
or from the dictionary: \"A standard, model, or pattern regarded as typical: the current middle-class norm of two children per family.\"

In other words, teh connotation of being outside the norm is not the same as being abnormal.

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by finn17
FWIW I\'m an Arch-Atheist but that doesn\'t make me a bad person:innocent:

NO, you\'re right FInn. There are so many other things that do that
lollollol




[size=-2]Sorry. Couldn\'t resist.[/size]

 

[finn17]

From you....

Originally posted by dauber22
NO, you\'re right FInn. There are so many other things that do that
lollollol

...I can only take that as a compliment:flip:

 

[Micha]

Well, quite an unusual subject being discussed here... I come from one of the few countreis that can claim they were almost 100% atheist - the sovjet union. I am 100% atheist myself and although I don not disapprove of other people´s beliefs (why should I ) I really do not understand it one bit. At least so far I have encountered nothing that would have hinted at the existencve of a supreme power.

By the way - if considering something as religion it MUST have the belief in some higher/spiritual entity. Scientlogy in a donctrine, not a religion, just like marxism.
What has been said of the word \'norm\' is absolutely correct, I have sociology as part of my studies and the term \'norm\' really means a certain set of behavioural patterns. The term \'normal\' rather coresponds with \'average\'. Being out of the norm is no way a bad thing, just an example: an IQ of 100 is average(normal), but an IQ of 115 not that bad, even though is´s not quite normal anymore.