Being disqualified from Golden Demon - what can you do and what can\'t you?

[lono]

It\'s their competition. There are plenty of other competitions to try - with varied criteria and different judging methods - if you don\'t like how GD is run.

The judges aren\'t there to please the entrants, they are there to pick the miniatures they feel deserve to win. If you don\'t like the way that they do it you only really have three options:

- Work the percentages by making a mini that plays to their sensibilities and try and win
- Suck it up, make the mini you want to make, regardless of GW IP and recognise that you probably have a slim chance
- Don\'t enter

I don\'t see what the issue is. It\'s a GW competition. What are you expecting? Balance? You only have to look at their game systems to see that is unlikely! lol

 

[AinuLainour]

I think they should disqualify display bases altogether, to be completely honest. Whether the judges realise it or not, it makes the model stand out a lot more. But it seems that competitions are usually about first impressions, I can remember one judge at Chicago blazing through about thirty models in two minutes. Anyways, I see what you\'re saying Lono.

My take is that, in NA competitons, at least, your figure needs to stand out a hell of a lot, ie. if the paintjob is only so-so, then a display base is the way to go.

 

[StarFyre]

thanks

thanks everyone for opinions...

I have decided which 2 I will do for sure...

1 Abyssal Lord, and 1 Duke of the Nine Hells.

The AByssal lord will obviously be D&D and not WH..so I may enter it just for the sake of showing it off to people if I can pull it off...with expectations to be disqualified

My other entry...should look generic enough I can enter it as a chaos giant, or chaos mage or something

Haven\'t felt interested in a project in a while and with a long time from Toronto GD 2008, I should have time to learn a lot

Prepare for lots of questions for techniques/ideas for both projects

Will begin sculpting the head for one of them this weekend

Sanjay

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Taken right from the offical GD rules-

We welcome conversions and scratch-built models, based upon our Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 game worlds (ie, original designs of your own making) in all categories, but these should be consistent with the atmosphere of the game worlds and spirit of the miniatures ranges that we produce.

What it doesn\'t say is oh and models based on out competritors world like D&D is ok too.

So yes your own demon prince of your own design is cool.. An abyssal Grand Poo Bah of the 64th plane of heck from page 666 of the uber rule book of D&D everything wont make the cut.. its not a disqualifacation.. its just not going to be taken serious.

Guys like Allen C and Jaques Alexnder for example have both won many awards (and swords)with their origional interpretations of the warhammer universe. So inother words put away the books and be creative.

 

[StarFyre]

I think...

a problem is I\'m not really that interested in the GW universe that much...

but there are some D&D creatures that no company has made models for (that i like)...so I want to make them for myself.

But it would be nice to test how much better I am getting via entering it in a contest but the only one in Toronto is the GD....so not much choice there

Maybe I can also work on something that is more of a GW based hehe

Like I love Allan\'s sculpts for example, but if you look at most of them, they are generic creations that could be from anywhere really.

My favourite of his is still his beastmen that won a gold i believe 2 years ago (it\'s holding an axe in 1 hand). That could be a chaos beastmen, or a D&D beastmen (yes, they have them since the 80s), or something from Rifts, etc.

his current sword winner, it\'s his version of a demonette... again, there are stuff like that in several games, but it is easily identifiable as GW, where as the beastmen is not. there is no reason at all that it has to be GW.

So my concern is if you do something that you like, but does look like it could be from another setting (even if you change the design...), what would GW do.

For example, I think mandrills are cool (i love the colour on their noses)...now as many know, demogorgon has 2 mandrill heads (yes, not baboons...baboons do not have the colouration).

Now, let\'s say I made a slannesh chaos spawn that was supposed to be made from the amalgimation of several beastmen lords...which just happened to have mandrill heads...combined into 1 monstrosity..even if it didn\'t have tentacles for arms..and isntead had slannesh spikes.

Someone could say \"that\'s obviously based more on demogorgon, and not slannesh\" even though I used mandril heads cause i like them as animals in real life. what would GW do? would it be disqualified.

That\'s my point...

I expect to be disqualified if something is obvious and someone recognizes it...but what if, you make something generic (allan\'s beastmen like the above example) but there is something in the art design that you like from another book, or movie, or setting, etc..and you use it cause you always wanted it in your collection, etc whatever the reason.... would GW disqualify if someone recognized the movie, game, or would they treat it as a generic thing..but know in their minds, that the person probably also plays that game, etc...

the kroot predator also comes to mind.... hehe

Sanjay

 

[Roger Bunting]

Also in the official GD Competitor\'s guidelines it says-

Furthermore, please do not use any real-world references or references to other non-Games Workshop fictional worlds in your entries.

They\'ve clarified their stance on using real world religous stuff like that Daemon prince mentioned above.

 

[StarFyre]

references....

Well, references I can understand...

I wouldn\'t put a \"Aliens\" logo on a Tyranid for example hehe



Sanjay

 

[generulpoleaxe]

i say go for it sanjay.

the miniatures that have had fantastic paint jobs and sculpting work on them, yet have been passed over by the judges for the previously mentioned reasons have always gained more attention than the winners.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by StarFyre
a problem is I\'m not really that interested in the GW universe that much...
Sanjay

Well then why worry about entering them in a Golden Demons to be seen. Just do them and post them to forms like CMON and other places like the Spanish forum where they have a English speaking section. Plus instead of worrying about a GW contest.. when you can afford to again take your work to a open independant contest like the Ravage Open Mix in Paris or to something a bit closer like Gen Con to enter them.

In all honesty the worlds biggerst contest is right here...

 

[vincenti]

Dagon Forge is right,:yes: .There are other shows you can go to .:beer:
Dont let stuff inhibit your imagination ,take to were it will be appreciated.

GOD bless ..............VINCENTI

 

[Orb]

Originally posted by AinuLainour
I think they should disqualify display bases altogether, to be completely honest. Whether the judges realise it or not, it makes the model stand out a lot more.

Awful suggestion. I do not want my carefully painted display piece being man handled by some sweaty judge, because you can be sure they will not carefully pick it up by it\'s base. The display base is like a picture frame in my eyes as well........my opinion.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by Orb

Originally posted by AinuLainour
I think they should disqualify display bases altogether, to be completely honest. Whether the judges realise it or not, it makes the model stand out a lot more.

Awful suggestion. I do not want my carefully painted display piece being man handled by some sweaty judge, because you can be sure they will not carefully pick it up by it\'s base. The display base is like a picture frame in my eyes as well........my opinion.

I agree with Orb and I posted my opinion in the Canadian GD thread..you can read it there. I sometimes feel you let your feelings for your friends miniatures not being in your eyes judged fairly cloud your opinion. I took a look at the Avatar you pointed out and as I wasnt there to see it personally, but by looking at the photos as much as I feel it was well painted I dont think it was any where near a winner. For startes I thin there way to much yellow and not enough contrast to make it look like lava. Plus I dont feel the placeing of a miniature in the first cut should be used as a \"feel good award\" it should be there because the judges felt it warranted a furthur look. On that day, they didnt feel that. Its all subjective.

 

[StarFyre]

agreed

agreed...from photos, overall, in several aspects, the avatar wasn\'t as good as Team Montreal\'s work, or Dragomir\'s work, etc.

It is well above average...but not compared to the winners that pictures we have seen.

But that happens all the time, right? we like stuff that doesn\'t appeal to others or isn\'t technically as nice as something else.

*shrug*

sad but true

I have friends who don\'t like Victoria Lamb\'s work that much, or Victor Hardy\'s etc..yet here, they are tops...

it really\'s subjective in that regard.

Sanjay

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Orb

Originally posted by AinuLainour
I think they should disqualify display bases altogether, to be completely honest. Whether the judges realise it or not, it makes the model stand out a lot more.

Awful suggestion. I do not want my carefully painted display piece being man handled by some sweaty judge, because you can be sure they will not carefully pick it up by it\'s base. The display base is like a picture frame in my eyes as well........my opinion.

Orb D\'accord.

By that same standard Ainulainor you are also saying that scenic bases should be banned. Garbage.
Sonny Bundesgard\'s figure which won Best Fantasy Figure and Best of Show at Salute was on a display base which had scenic elements incorporated into it. And it looked superb.

 

[Herb the bitter]

I know I have a strange sense of humor, but I find the idea of you getting disqualified for using D&D imagery quite ironic as selling D&D was instrumental in Games Workshop\'s early success.

 

[StarFyre]

i know..

yeah...in the early 80s white dwarf sold/advertised D&D..then around i think it\'s 1983 or 84...Warhammer started....

it is funny

Sanjay

 

[Kaczy]

GW sold D&D over 20 years ago, as they did a lot of other smaller roleplaying games. These games have been phased out in the company to be replaced by the two Warhammer worlds and The Lord of the Rings. CURRENTLY, these are the GW worlds - imagery must relate to the world of the entry category in a recognizable way. A D&D copied entry entered in a GD may not be taken seriously.

There is a great difference between being inspired and making a very close replica of a piece of artwork. What you want to do sounds more like the latter, and I\'d say that that doesn\'t fit with the themes of GW.

You won\'t be removed from the competition, but any model that doesn\'t fit (ex. the Wraithlord in top hat and tails, a few years back) will not be considered for placing or publishing in WD or the web because it is not representative of the worlds of any of the GW games.

Kaczy

 

[rextalon]

Originally posted by AinuLainour
I think they should disqualify display bases altogether, to be completely honest. Whether the judges realise it or not, it makes the model stand out a lot more. But it seems that competitions are usually about first impressions, I can remember one judge at Chicago blazing through about thirty models in two minutes. Anyways, I see what you\'re saying Lono.

My take is that, in NA competitons, at least, your figure needs to stand out a hell of a lot, ie. if the paintjob is only so-so, then a display base is the way to go.

Thank YOU!!!!!!!!
That\'s what I\'ve been saying all along!
A thread about bases.

I don\'t think making a DnD based mini will fly at a GD at all. I\'ve seen people try to use things like that in local RTT and they were thrown out, even though they were modified with GW bits.

 

[Trevor]

I think they should disqualify display bases altogether

Me too. They have in Oz and for those worried about handling, you are allowed to use a handling base, so er... all bases covered

Note this doesn\'t stop the use of creative bases, Vic had some awesome frozen ice bases with dead people frozen in them last year.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Well I challenge anyone of you who thinks that putting a miniature on a plinth automatically gets you in the winners circle to take a crappy painted miniature and put it on a nice plinth and enter it.. I can guarantee you you wont make it in and Im willing to bet good money on it...