Bloody Fargin\' Stupid Political Correctness ...

[Hoblit]

As far as holidays go. I have a couple of jewish friends. I wish them merry christmas, they wish me happy hanukah. They come round for christmas dinner (admittedly we do the pork stuffing separate from the turkey) and I go round for Rosh Hashanah (apoligies if the spelling is bad)

As far as The whole country thing goes. The people that irritate me the most are those who emigrate because it looks better somewhere else, and then become even more patriotic towards the original country. You left, deal with it, support the new country that you are now living in. (This is a big problem here) I am willing to make exceptions eg move forced by company etc, but if you choose to leave, then leave everything and make a new life.

(sorry, I just can\'t seem to get into the whole christmas spirit at the moment. Too many people irritating me)

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von pitynoman

Originally posted by Mosch
By the, now this is especially for Germany: The Jews have their own religious slaughter thing, \"schächten\", which does not comply with German law. So - there was this debate it schächten should be disallowed. Religious freedom and so on.
.

Ok, you\'ve lost me there! How does this relate to the topic and please expand on what this religious slaughter is and how it offends you? Do you mean Kosher?
If so back off cause Hebrew National hot dogs Rock!???

lol Don\'t know about the Hot Dogs, sorry.

Kosher refers to the preparation of food as well as the method of killing the animal, if I remember correctly. I have no problem with any of the \"cooking rules\", if I ever have Jews over for dinner, I will happily try to cook as their religion dictates it, no problem there. The problem only arises about this schächten; basically the carotid artery is opened. After all the blood has flown out, the animal is \"geschächtet\" and kosher to eat.
The problem is that this violates German laws, both about animals and about hygiene. When this debate wether it should be allowed to be continued or not started, there were Jews who protested loudly that their rights of religious freedom were violated.

What this has to do with the thread.... Christmas does not violate any laws, and after all it is supposed to be religious, right? So... isn\'t the Christians\' right of religious freedom being swept under the rug when people complain about that?
People go to ridiculous length to protect other peoples right while not caring about their own. Of course I want turkish people to integrate. They\'re not worse than Germans, in fact many of the older Generation are a lot more polite and friendly. But if they come to Germany and demand that I learn turkish to talk to them, something went wrong. It is their right to live here, and that\'s absolutely OK, but I see no reason why the whole country must learn turkish for that. And whoops, I\'m racist. Now find the hypocrisy.

I have started again.... the thing is, our constitution states that everyone is equal, and that also means that minorities can be absolute idiots. Being a minority doesn\'t make it better. And now the majority (people that celebrate Christmas) has to back off because a minority feels offended? No, I don\'t think so. How can ANYONE be offended by a large mass of people celebrating peace and good will on a global scale? Nobody is offended by puppies, how can people be offended by Christmas?

I\'ve started again....

 

[StarFyre]

ugh

Political Correctness is one of the stupidest and most idiotic movements ever.

Totally against it; if you want to say something, say it. Even here at work (at a Bank mind you) don\'t believe in it...

Say whatever, but I guess since I don\'t deal with the general public, it\'s fine.

Sanjay

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by green stuff
I go by \"happy holidays\", new year fits in there so that just about covers everybody on my continent ... yes I know not everybody on this little planet goes by the gregorian calendar.

But everyone has to accept the winter solstice!

 

[Avicenna]

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by green stuff
*** putting on Tactical Dreadnought Terminator Armor ***

Technicaly, they\'re not celebrating Christ\'s birth. If I\'m not mistaken, it was decided on that day to coincide with a pagan ceremony that celebrated the coming of Spring and of the sun god (check it out here).
*** heads for the bunker ***

Dont know about the sun god but - Mithras was born on 25 December, and then there is Saturnalia - but I digress

This is just the tip of the iceberg! Seems that every major religion can be fit into an archetype system. You\'ll probably find that mithras and saturnalia both die and come back to life!

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by green stuff
Not true, the illuminati were formed May 1, 1776, in Bavaria, by Adam Weishaupt on some Masonic bases. Freemasons existed long before. I think it goes back to Alexander the Great\'s time (could be wrong there). By 1720, Freemasonry was present in America and some of the founding fathers were members of their local lodges (check it out here).

Here\'s a site I like better:
http://www.masonicinfo.com/illuminati.htm
Freemasonry has a vague history, but it pretty much began as a club in the early 1600s. It\'s modern form began around 1717.
I am not sure when the symbol from the Great Seal of the United States was connected to the \"illuminati\", but freemasons didn\'t use an eye at least until 1797 and not an eye and pyramid for another hundred years. The Seal as we know it was designed in 1782 (though the 1778 seal also had a pyramid). The eye was first suggested in 1776. The designer and all members of the committee agreed that the eye was the eye of god looking favorably on the new nation (symbolized by the 13 tiered pyramid). So how the eye of God is the antithesis to \"in God we trust\" I am at a loss to understand.

Here\'s another neat site
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/illuminatitexts.html

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Mosch

Kosher refers to the preparation of food as well as the method of killing the animal, if I remember correctly. . . .
The problem only arises about this schächten; basically the carotid artery is opened. After all the blood has flown out, the animal is \"geschächtet\" and kosher to eat.

So how do they slaughter pigs in Germany? As far as I know (and I spent 3 years of college studying Animal Science) the only way pigs are slaughtered is by hanging by the ankle, slitting the throat and bleading to death. Cows, Sheep etc. are killed by a spike to the brain but because pigs evolved as raming animals, their skulls are too thick for that to work. Throat cutting is the fastest (and therefore most humaine) method of slaughter. My prof once said if you used the captive bolt on a pig (hydraulic piston with metal spike applied to the forehead of the cow etc.) the pig would just look up at you curiously.

So, if the described method of slaughter is illegal in Germany, how do they kill pigs?

By the way, US department of Agriculture has guidelines for the humane slaughter of livestock, and all must be unconscious. The captive bolt kills usually, but may just render unconscious, and pigs are electrocuted into unconsciousness before slaughter.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Oa/congress/hh_att4.htm

 

[Maltagearion]

In the same vein of all this PCness (Which I hate) I just wanted to wish you all a:

Happy Christhanukwanzaamas!

lol

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von vincegamer

Originally posted by Mosch

Kosher refers to the preparation of food as well as the method of killing the animal, if I remember correctly. . . .
The problem only arises about this schächten; basically the carotid artery is opened. After all the blood has flown out, the animal is \"geschächtet\" and kosher to eat.

So how do they slaughter pigs in Germany? As far as I know (and I spent 3 years of college studying Animal Science) the only way pigs are slaughtered is by hanging by the ankle, slitting the throat and bleading to death. Cows, Sheep etc. are killed by a spike to the brain but because pigs evolved as raming animals, their skulls are too thick for that to work. Throat cutting is the fastest (and therefore most humaine) method of slaughter. My prof once said if you used the captive bolt on a pig (hydraulic piston with metal spike applied to the forehead of the cow etc.) the pig would just look up at you curiously.

So, if the described method of slaughter is illegal in Germany, how do they kill pigs?

By the way, US department of Agriculture has guidelines for the humane slaughter of livestock, and all must be unconscious. The captive bolt kills usually, but may just render unconscious, and pigs are electrocuted into unconsciousness before slaughter.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Oa/congress/hh_att4.htm

The pig is, as you said, rendered unconscious by one mean or the other, hung up by the ankles and then the throat is completely cut. I am no expert on either way of slaughter, I admit that, so I do not know how exactly these processes work, and I o have some problems explaining that in English If I knew the English equivalent for \"schächten\", I would google an accurate english description....

My point however was that I think everyone should have their freedom as long as that freedom does not violate any laws or violates someone else\'s freedom. Freedom stops where rules start.

 

[pitynoman]

Originally posted by Mosch

Orginal gepostet von pitynoman

Originally posted by Mosch
The problem is that this violates German laws, both about animals and about hygiene. When this debate wether it should be allowed to be continued or not started, there were Jews who protested loudly that their rights of religious freedom were violated.

I\'ve started again....

1.Yes they absolutely should be allowed to do this. They aren\'t complaining to take away Christmas or taking away anyones rights. If they were trying to make you slaughter livestock that way,then I would say:\" Oy Gwalt! Beat them with a ham steak!\"
So I still fail to see how this relates.
2.Minorities are just as dumb or smart as the majority,there just less of them.
3.You come to the country -you learn the language. Period! I did! So can everyone else.(That\'s a different topic though)
4.Respecting someones rights is respectfull,but if it means infringing on everyone elses rights it becomes pandering.

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door Maltagearion
Happy Christhanukwanzaamas!

lol reminds me of this:
http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/nodwick/ffn/ffn080.htm

 

[Mosch]

Pitynoman, I rephrased my point above

About allowing them: I don\'t think so (it still is though). People would want a slaughterhouse to be closed down if the animals were being beaten to death with a sledgehammer and I do not think schächten is OK because of the same reason. I am by no means an animal rights activist, but the animal in question slowly and completely conscious bleeds to death (and that violates German law). The religion doesn\'t even demand the animal to be conscious, just not to be killed by electricity or similar.

Illegal is illegal and should be illegal within religious reasons too.

 

[supervike]

but..

Originally posted by vincegamer
By the way, US department of Agriculture has guidelines for the humane slaughter of livestock, and all must be unconscious. The captive bolt kills usually, but may just render unconscious, and pigs are electrocuted into unconsciousness before slaughter.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Oa/congress/hh_att4.htm

This topic is controversial right here in Iowa as well. There is a \'kosher\' slaughter house not far from here where people from PETA infiltrated to see how the animals were slaughtered, and it has become a big news topic.

According to the spokesman for the Kosher meat plant, the animals are NOT ALLOWED to be rendered unconscious before having the throat cut, nor are they allowed to fall to the ground. Doing so makes them UNKOSHER, and therefore unedible (they sell these \'wasted\' animals to yet another plant). So the PETA people have reported this to the USDA, but who knows what will happen.


So apparently, Mosch, the Kosher plant here in Iowa is violating US laws also. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Frustrated Father]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by Mosch

By the way, US department of Agriculture has guidelines for the humane slaughter of livestock, and all must be unconscious. The captive bolt kills usually, but may just render unconscious, and pigs are electrocuted into unconsciousness before slaughter.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Oa/congress/hh_att4.htm

I used to work at a slaughter house for horses about 16 years ago and they did it a bit differently there.

Essentially they would run them up the ramp and them pull out a hammer that had a .22 calibre shell in its head and then wack the critter up side the head with it.

It would drop, they would slap a chain around its back hind hoofs, up it went and then a fellow with a chainsaw would cut its head off and then cut it from groin to throat while everything fell out.

Took about 30 seconds if I recall correctly. I don\'t think the thing knew what hit it to tell you the truth.

But I digress ... and some excellent points from many of you about PC. I had heard that immigration had gotten to be a real problem of late in Europe and frankly I\'m surprised it hasn\'t come to more of a head than it already has.

What country was it about a month back having trouble with all the extremist muslims? Denmark? Anything going on with that?

 

[TJeffers]

THE WAY I SEE IT

I believe deeply in Jesus and celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday. I however, have no problem with people who do not celebrate. It is simply not my business. The thing is Christians are always under attack in this manner. The left wing constantly say that we are attacking abortion, homosexuality, and the like and that is just \"awful\" according to them. But when they attack a wonderful holiday...even if you are a Satan Worshiper....we are suppose to see it as \"Open Minded\" and \"Tolerant\"...give me a break.....MERRY CHRISTMAS, GOD BLESS YOU, MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU, and JESUS SAVES!

No if you are offended...you need a hobby...badly.

 

[TJeffers]

PETA

PETA (People for the ethical treatment of animals) is another group that scares me....I believe that humane treatment is a good thing...but they actually have a site against fishing....the slogan is \"Fishing Hurts.\"

Research indicates that fishing does not hurt because brain development is essential to understand pain...fish are instinct driven not intelligence driven....

I say my version of PETA rocks:
People eating tasty animals.lol

 

[Frustrated Father]

Since we\'re talking about animals and PETA (there is a PC crazy group so it ties in) I think animals that are going to be killed should be killed humanely as possible ... but point is, I want my damn steak and burger, so if I\'ve gotta butcher the bastard to get the steak so be it ...

Still, do it nicely - no sense in being a real rat bastard about it.

I work with a lady that is a serious veggie and PETA supporter, wears all sorts of PETA gear and goes to rallies and the like and apparently has a record for raiding a lab or some sort with a group of other people. Have to say ... its a blast irking the hell out of her.

lol

She takes it in good face though so I can\'t be mean about it. Its the Nazi PETA people that just make me shake my head.

 

[slidedog]

TJeffers, you are the kind of Christian that I get along with great. A thinking, compassionate human being. Even though I am not by any means a christian( that is I don\'t accept Jesus as my personal savior), I consider him an enlightened being and one of the world\'s great teachers. I think we would find we have much more in common than not.

Oh Yeah, I am a member of the OTHER PETA... that is People Eating Tasty Animals! (now that is NOT pc!)

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von TJeffers
JESUS SAVES!

Yeah! All you others, you take damage!

Sorry, couldn\'t resist

Oh, and I am not not going to start ranting about PETA or else I am quite sure that I will gnaw through my desk.

 

[dauber22]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by green stuff
I go by \"happy holidays\", new year fits in there so that just about covers everybody on my continent ... yes I know not everybody on this little planet goes by the gregorian calendar.

But everyone has to accept the winter solstice!

Except of course those people in the southern hemisphere where its actually the summer solstice