Bringing this to your attention

Naukhel

Active member
There is also, always, the problem arising of people just not being able to take a really good photo of a mini, or not having photoshop to make it more presentable with layers and all, or like me, a combination of the two.

I\'m a horrible photographer.
I can\'t figure photoshop out (even with those tutorials in our own forums).
It hates me.
Granted, I don\'t post my work very often.
I know, for example, that people that look at my early post, the Reaper Fire Demon, have generally said \'7\', or \'6-7\', and it\'s sitting at.. last time I looked, 5.1 or so.
My photography bites. It counts against me, because you can only rate what you can actually see.

Similarly, some of StarFyre\'s stuff, having seen it up close and personal, and compared to the pictures here, I would say are under-rated (No, Sanjay, I\'m not giving examples - you already know which ones I\'m talking about)

Now, there\'s another issue here. Making people aware of sniping is one thing. But, similarly, using the opposite end of the spectrum to raise said awareness is just the wrong way to go about it.

Yes, there are many threads about sniping. But dig a little deeper in the forums, and read some of those threads, and there are a like number of complaints about \'padding\' votes.

Worst of all, IMHO, is the addressing it as if \'we\', the folk of CMON are doing the sniping, as a broad generalization. There may be some CMONers that snipe. I don\'t know.

Personally, if I give a rating of 4 or lower, I comment. And as ever, one has to bear in mind that what \'I\' (meaning the painter in question) consider to be \'tabletop\' does not mean that everyone has the same opinion of what makes it \'tabletop\'.

Go a step further, and we come to what I\'ve come to think of as \'The NSA factor\'....

It\'s cool mini or NOT. The painting isn\'t always the only thing being judged. If the mini\'s just stupid-looking, that\'s going to take away from its score in some folk\'s eyes. If you\'ve converted something, and the viewers don\'t think the conversion works, they\'re going to reflect that in their score.

If you\'ve tried a horrible colour scheme, but done it well (neon green and hot pink, just as an example), it\'s going to hurt our eyes, and that\'ll be reflected in the scoring.

Anonymous voting, whether it be for padding or sniping, happens. We can\'t point fingers either way, save at people who make a concerted effort to affect \'the system\', one way or another.

It isn\'t perfect, but it\'s what we\'ve got. CMON is a service provided to us by people who love miniatures, who take the time out of their lives to keep this wonderful site up and running for us.

They don\'t demand payment from us to help them out. They ask it of us, and I, for one, am happy to help in supporting it, even if I don\'t post a lot of my work here.

Attempts to illustrate a point, I think, by mucking the system, is insulting to our hosts. It\'s like walking into someone\'s house in dog poo covered boots and making a point of walking on the new carpets, because you didn\'t like the colour the owner chose.
 

Dammekkos2

New member
Originally posted by Gareth©
Project harkling was to raise peoples awareness to sniping. It was never to snipe others, or harm others. Its had a lot of exposure and hopefully people saw the fun in it.

Warseer never. Nor do i think some of the guys on here did. Thats cool, i respect your views. But a lot of people mistook it for an attack on the hobby, and its not. I love painting, i wouldn\'t do anything to hurt it.

I\'m one of the first to joke about myself being a geeky painter, project harkling was another jokey look at our hobby. But more importantly its raised the topic of sniping. Which for me is why i wanted to back harkling. in backing harkling, i\'ve been victimised and sniped as i outlined above.

People have assumed myself and the members of swc are snipers, we\'re not. We\'re victims of sniping like you guys. We want to fix, maybe we went about it the wrong way, maybe we didn\'t. Its good its raised awareness.

The one guy who did snipe on swc, recieved a warning in a pm. As we don\'t tolerate it.

Someone had a great idea to raise awareness. Do the opposite. Take a really fantastic model, and get people to vote 1s. This would do the rounds on the forums and continue to raise awareness. its what i wish harkon GreyWolf would have done to start with.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I\'m really not the evil person warseer made me out to be. I played up to them a bit, mainly because i couldn\'t get through to them. I respect their views, i respect anyone who feels passionate about a subject and is willing to stand up for it.

Hi Gareth, I don\'t really see how this could raise awareness of sniping, please explain. I didn\'t find it all that amusing, but refrained from saying so on Warseer and the B&C Blood Angel board, where I usually comment on your work, but since you\'ve posted here I\'ll say it. I thought it was quite insulting to both CMON and Warseer members really.

\"Ok guys, we\'re taking over. We\'re taking back our power, no longer are we to feel shamed by elitiest golden demon painters, no longer will we be scared to show our work for fear of slaming critisms, no longer will we take the poor low scores the pompus elite give our hard work.\"

Avoiding pointing out the obvious derogotary comments about this place, it\'s kind of patronising to the Warseer community too. You didn\'t mention that you are in fact on of the \"pompus elite\". It reminded me of Caesar rallying his troops, coming across as \"one of the people\", whilst in reality being entirely separate from the hoy paloy, smugly satisfied with his manipulation of the masses. That\'s how it came across anyway, I guess it was just a joke (and not some political awareness exercise as you claim here), but it was poorly executed imo.
 

Gareth©

New member
Well i\'m banged to rights. What i wrote in the first post about pompous elite was 100% tongue in cheek. if read seriously, then yes i do offend the pompous elite... surely of which i\'m one of them (or close at least)? Irony?

Seriously guys this raised awreness, as people on several forums are still talking about this and the sniping thats going on.

Was never suppose to offend. I\'m not like that. I apologise whole heartedly to anyone i offended. I mean it, i\'m sorry.

Not here to argue with you guys.
 

skeeve

Member
Originally posted by Gareth©
I try to be mature and apologise, and what happens? My rank drops another 40 places... very mature guys. Well done.

off to delete my account. cmon just isn\'t what it should be. better off without it.

Gareth, I think you should take you time and read how rank is calculated. Ranks are not set in stone and not absolute. You are ranked based on the average of 5 top minies AGAINST other painters. What it means that if people submitted recently a number of good minies and you didn\'t (come on, we do not submit things all the time) their ranks will go up (while yours will not). So, for you it will look like your rank drops.

I was looking at your scores over the last two days. Your top 5 minies didn\'t change. The highest was 8.6, it is still 8.6

As for sniping; at some point, long time ago I posted here a quick simulation, assuming that per mini score is calculated as simple unweighted average. I don\'t remember exact numbers but from what I remember at 80 votes per mini, you need 8 \"1\" to change your score by 0.5 and this is assuming that the rest of the bunch vote AT your average (which never happen either) This is rather unlikely.

Multiple \"1\" from the same person really don\'t do anything, because they all will be averaged to a single number.

Unfortunately, rating system that would be immune to manipulation does not exist and cannot exist even in theory. I could spend long time here trying to explain how and why people vote as they do but it will become very boring a technical very quickly. Just to summarize it in general, surprisingly COMON system is relatively stable and your harkling project demonstrated just that. Despite all your efforts, scores stabilized on the second day at around 7.5. +/- 0.3 and any further attempts to move it any direction would probably fail.

Now, average for registered voters (that for the most parts were oblivious of your efforts) stabilized in the end of the first day at 4.9 +/- 0.2.

Seriously, may be before complaining about ranking on all forums known to man it would be prudent to sit down with a pen and piece of paper refresh some minimal math and try to figure some things out. No?
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
Originally posted by Gareth©
I try to be mature and apologise, and what happens? My rank drops another 40 places... very mature guys. Well done.

off to delete my account. cmon just isn\'t what it should be. better off without it.

Man my ranking has dropped 100 in a day before with absolutley NO CHANGE to my scores!
YOUR scores have not gone down, that that means other people have submited stuff that has scored more. Perhaps you could look at the top last 7 days, that will provide 20 minis ALL of which have rated higher than yours.
 

GAR

New member
Ok so HOWDY.

I tried to take at look at your gallery, which as off today is empty.

I don\'t find this funny, nor do I think it has done anything besides get everybody angry, not raise awarness.

If you want to be a pill, then don\'t come across as trying to be a crusader for awareness.

If you want to get better ratings, ask for positive feedback on the forum here. There are some very good people who will seriously look at what you have and offer objective comments.

My ranking changes all the time. SO what, I don\'t much care. I am more interested in getting better, and I can\'t think of a better place than here.

Best of luck in finding whatever it is you are looking for.

Now I am off to sip my cappucino while my many serving women masage my feet. The life of an elitist is so hard, but alas, we do have a reputation to keep up.

Jeevs, bring the Rolls up, I think I would like a drive in the countyside today!:eek:
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
Oh no he\'s taken down his gallery! Whatever shall we do? :rolleyes:


Thta shows exactly what his motivation was really. \"Praise me or you are not worthy to look upon me!\" lol

EDIT: oh no I have dropped a rank - someone MUST be sniping me! :D
 
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