Brush round tip - lose the point

[boubi]

I have using some nice brushes over a year, Raphael 8404 and W&N Series 7.
I am taking care of them, clean them well after using them without being too hard, then using Vallejo brush cleaner and restorer to finalize the cleaning (alcohol base).
But after 3-4 months the brush is losing the tip, like if the finest tip hair are going away. The brush is still in good condition and the shape is good, but not as "sharp" as it used to be.
To be honest it is bothering me, I am painting with an average of 1 hour / day without changing brushes (~120h use), and I have the impression that my brushes are dying quite fast compared to some forum members...
I also have the impression that W&N are lasting slightly longer... but it is just a feeling.

For the ones using these brush types brush on a regular basis and using them over 6 months, what is your recipe to avoid losing the tip?

 

[Avelorn]

My brushes doesn't wear out that fast I think. You aren't letting any paint dry in the tip or in the ferrule, right? I don't know about the restorer you use, I tend to use conditioner.

 

[boubi]

No, no paint left in the ferrule... I am quite careful with this... what do you use to clean them before the conditioner?

 

[Orki]

My W&N last about teh same time too, and so far every other brand has worn out loads quicker. I paint on average for many hours a day though.

I found that using my nice new pointy brushes for mixing in the palette shortens their lifespan considerably, as does painting with metallics. Most people overlook abrasion from their mixing surface as a factor in wear (especially as we tend to work it quite vigorously compared to when painting the model).

Some people also have a gentler touch than others when painting which will affect it, as will using thicker paint to some small degree (depending on whether it starts to gamm up and restrict free movement in use, regardless of cleaning habits afterwards).

 

[QuietiManes]

Aside from not leaving paint in the ferrule, you shouldn't even let paint get in the ferrule to begin with. It's hard to reverse once you let the paint get up there.

Cleaning with soaps and restorers shouldn't be done every time you paint. Assuming you are rinsing it out often and before the paint gets to the ferrule. I use the W&N cleaner, it works well.

And of course, never use your nice brushes to mix your paints! Orki is so right on that, it'll kill a brush.

 

[skraaal]

I've had my W&N Series 7's now for over a year and they are still brilliant. I've just written up an article on how I take care of my brushes on my blog, check it out!: http://www.miniature-studio.com/apps/blog

Hope this helps,
Axel.

 

[Einion]

...then using Vallejo brush cleaner and restorer to finalize the cleaning (alcohol base).

I would personally avoid exposing any sable or Kolinsky brushes to something with solvent in it on a regular basis, certainly not every day. It's fine for the occasional deep clean if and when necessary (like once every couple of months) and should always be followed by conditioning to compensate.

But after 3-4 months the brush is losing the tip, like if the finest tip hair are going away.

From what I've seen that's pretty much exactly what is happening - the tips of the hairs wear off or break off from fatigue. Everyone has good brushes that are no longer at their best for exactly this reason and for the amount of use you indicate, the paint type, the sizes of brush I'm guessing you use and last but not least, the way we tend to use them (very tip-heavy), you may be getting around the expected useful life (for the brush in as-new condition), but honestly we need a lot more detail to go on.

How many brushes are you talking about here?
What sizes?
Do you use them about equally and if not are the ones you use the most showing the most wear?*
Plain water to rinse or something added?
Double-bath rinsing system or just a single jar?

In terms of cleaning, just saying you clean them well after using isn't nearly enough info to diagnose the possible cause - this could directly be the cause of excessive brush wear; over-cleaning brushes is one major causes of shorter lifespan.

*This is a sure sign of something other than normal use being the cause of the problem.

Einion

 

[10 ball]

I use W&N 7's, wash with just warm water and form the tip with spit! Mine last 12 months or so depending on the size and usage.

 

[Kretcher]

Enion will give you great addvice if you come back with more detailed information.

I generlaly just use natural soap of high quality to clean my brushes, but most of the time I just wash them with a 2 water jar system, with no added stuff. this works fine for me. but ofcourse sometimes one really have to change the brush... but not so often as you seem to do it.

/Kretcher

 

[boubi]

How many brushes are you talking about here?
What sizes?
Do you use them about equally and if not are the ones you use the most showing the most wear?*
Plain water to rinse or something added?
Double-bath rinsing system or just a single jar?

Einion

I normally use one brush for the whole paint job, having just another (old one without tip) for mixing the paint. So far I have used around 5 brushes.
Sizes from 000 to 1, I have tendency to prefer small size and often use 00
I use them one by one, means I start and finish a mini with the same brush generally, especially for smaller size mini. I also often use a round tip brush for base coating bigger surfaces where details are not required.
Use only plain water to rinse, nothing added
Single jar rinsing

I was cleaning them after each paint session, I will try not to do it that often. But people always told me to avoid putting paint in the ferrule, but really how can you avoid it? The paint is going there by capillarity effect, especially with thinned paint. I have stored them tip down with the protection sleeve. But I have realized that paint in the ferrule only damage the brush where there is a lot of it and spread the hair avoiding losing tip... So is it that important? The ferrule can be slightly colored over time, right? At the beginning I add a tendency to try to clean it which was one of the reason of quick brush decay.

 

[Kretcher]

I would suggest you to get a bigger brush size 2 or 1 for some work that you do. Some of them have a really nice tip. Perhaps that will also help, if you have a bigger area to work on escecially in the first stages of paiting a figure before going into detail and shadows, glases and so on.

Regarding time for cleaning brushes with special solvant (soap) i do that once every 2 or 3 weeks if I paint regularly. sometimes it happens more often if I do notice that I have gotten paint into the ferrule.

/Kretcher

 

[QuietiManes]

You avoid getting paint in the ferrule by only loading the tip with paint and rinsing the brush off when the paint gets past halfway up the bristles. That's a big reason why people tend to use large brushes for larger areas...and why lots of folks don't like the short bristles on the miniature S7's. Wetting the bristles before adding paint reduces the capillary action as well, if you aren't already doing that. Using another jar or two of water to rinse in stages will help too, having cleaner water to finish in.

 

[Einion]

I normally use one brush for the whole paint job, having just another (old one without tip) for mixing the paint. So far I have used around 5 brushes.
Sizes from 000 to 1, I have tendency to prefer small size and often use 00

If you're painting entire figs with a 00 that's definitely going to contribute to wear. That's not to say that you shouldn't do this; I'd advise you not to but brush sizing is very personal. Lots of pros do advise using the largest brush possible for every job and for good reason though, because larger brushes hold more paint so need loading less frequently, they paint the same area with less wear on each bristle (believe me, over time this makes a difference) and because, if you're paying for a good brush with a fine tip you might as well make use of it!

And actually I generally advise using Kolinskys only for jobs only they're the best at - ultra-smooth layering and tiny details. Obviously with small-scale stuff like we're doing every paintjob involves some amount of painting tiny details but you could do a lot of the work with cheap synthetics without any detriment to the final outcome.

Use only plain water to rinse, nothing added
Single jar rinsing

Okay, a double-bath rinsing will greatly improve overall brush cleanliness as a rule. Think about how dirty the water in your jar is by the time you've rinsed the brush a few times... that's what's slowly working its way into your ferrule during painting, pigment particles included.

If it won't mess with your paint handling too much I'd recommend you add some dishwashing liquid to your rinse water - this actually helps your rinse water clean your brushes rather obviously.

But people always told me to avoid putting paint in the ferrule, but really how can you avoid it? The paint is going there by capillarity effect, especially with thinned paint.

Not getting paint near the ferrule is something to strive for rather than a fully achievable goal; what you want to avoid doing if you can is loading paint into the entire brushhead. Some pigment will inevitably find its way down to the base of the hairs of any brush but you want to minimise this and always having the brush damp (with clean water!) prior to loading does help.

You avoid getting paint in the ferrule by only loading the tip with paint and rinsing the brush off when the paint gets past halfway up the bristles. That's a big reason why people tend to use large brushes for larger areas...and why lots of folks don't like the short bristles on the miniature S7's. Wetting the bristles before adding paint reduces the capillary action as well, if you aren't already doing that.

:good:

Pre-wetting brushes is a tip that isn't always remembered, but actually quite an important one.

Einion

 

[KruleBear]

Very interesting thread boubi.

 

[boubi]

Ok since a week I have followed your advice. I have now two water jars, I have not tried to put a drop of dishwasher yet, but will do it.
I have not clean the brush with the alcohol, I have been cautious to store them point down.
I have pre-wet them, but really I cannot help to have paint coming into the ferrule. As Einion mentionned, it is almost impossible, the paint continue to go there. On top of it if the brush is already wet, the paint into the bristle got diluted in an unwanted and uncontrolled way... Maybe I am doing something wrong?

BUT, I believe that it is going in the right direction, I will confirm this in few weeks...

 

[Einion]

I have pre-wet them, but really I cannot help to have paint coming into the ferrule. As Einion mentionned, it is almost impossible, the paint continue to go there. On top of it if the brush is already wet, the paint into the bristle got diluted in an unwanted and uncontrolled way... Maybe I am doing something wrong?

Wetted, not actually wet - doing washes is one of the few times you want the brush truly wet, rather than damp with paint.

Best of luck with the new routine, hope it works out for you.

Einion

 

[jvitzu]

I've had a Winsor Newton 7 size 0 for about a year and a half, and I only use it for details. The tip is still as pointy as ever, and the only sign of age is a slight fading of the bristles. I use Masters soap to clean it after each session, and my normal brush pot is always tap water + a tiny spec of dawn. I find the dawn allows me to keep my brush ferrules paint-free forever, if I'm careful (I'm the kind of person who will wash the brush after each application).

 

[garbled]

I use a two-cup method when cleaning my brushes. I swish it vigorously in the first cup, and then roll the brush slightly on the side of the cup to get the paint out. I've never been able to get the paint out by simply swishing. Is this method wrong? Am I hurting my brushes by doing the roll? How do others clean brushes if not like this?

 

[ImmortalStrain]

This can often happen if you use a lot of metallic paints and true Sable brushes. Metallic paints have fine grains of Mica. This will eventually split the hairs and force the end of the brush to curl.

It's best to have synthetic brushes for metallic as it will slow the process, but not eliminate it. Using your true sables with metallic paint will destroy them so I suggest never using them for it.

 

[Einion]

This can often happen if you use a lot of metallic paints and true Sable brushes. Metallic paints have fine grains of Mica. This will eventually split the hairs and force the end of the brush to curl.

It's best to have synthetic brushes for metallic as it will slow the process, but not eliminate it.

The end curling over shouldn't happen with sable or Kolinsky brushes, tip-curl is in fact the common thing with synthetics and it's hardly a slow thing either - can happen within minutes of first use.

Using your true sables with metallic paint will destroy them so I suggest never using them for it.

Well individual mileage might vary but I use the same brushes for metallics that I use for regular paint and it hasn't worn them any more that I've ever noticed.

Einion