Brush strokes visible?

[Tolinwiz]

When you guys are painting to extremely high levels - if you were to take a magnifying glass and look at the mini, can you still see the brush strokes and the changes in color?

When I look at the miniature with my naked eye, I see nothing as far as strokes, harsh color switches, but under the magnifyer, boy does it sure stick out.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Been painting for a good 30 years or so...............still get strokes showing. Thinning helps. Putting down your stroke, then working it in different directions can minimize the strokes showing. My personal belief is that there may be some photoshopping going on with some of the uber smooth stuff......just a guess though.

 

[Tolinwiz]

Yeah shawn - I'll glaze with extremely watered down paints, and under the highest scrutiny I tend to still see strokes - just wondering if I need to take another step....

The blends look good to the eye, and decent on film - but under the magnifying glass, can see it all.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Not having brushstrokes showing is achievable. Thin your paints down, take your time. Pretty simple really. And to dismiss the top artists on this site as photoshop cheats just because you can't achieve the same results is pretty low.

 

[Tolinwiz]

I'm assuming you're referring to the other poster in regards to the photo shop remark.

As for thinning down paints, is it just a matter of getting extreme coverage with super thinned paints?

I thin paints down to water line consitency at times, and still seem to have some issues with strokes/color shifts being visible - even with the most subtle shift in colors.

I guess basically w/o having anyone to critique the model in person and not knowing anyone locally that paints to CMON top status, how does one know if they're doing it "right" so to speak?

 

[Ocelot]

Having visible brush strokes and gradient changes under a magnifying glass is nothing to be ashamed of if you can't see them with your naked eye.

They are 'easy' to fix as well, some glazes of a median colour will usually do the trick. About the brush strokes, I think perhaps your paints are so thin that you don't get a good coverage. Also, I reckon brush strokes are more prominant on large flat surfaces, is that's the case I think 'glaze painting' would be a really good option to think about. Just make sure you get an even coverage for the basecoat because if you don't the highlights won't be even! I have found that out the hard way before

 

[drokle]

Hi there...here are a couple of other tips that might help. First, make sure you are using good brushes. I fine, soft sable will help cut down on brush strokes. Also, try doing whatever you can not to accelerate the drying of the paint. In other words, don't have any fans on, turn down the temperature, don't hold the figure too close to lights, etc. That will give the paint a little more time to "bleed" together. One last thing, you might try experimenting with laying down paint with something other than a brush like a Q-tip, a bit of foam, your finger, and there's always an airbrush. Hope this helps.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

And to dismiss the top artists on this site as photoshop cheats just because you can't achieve the same results is pretty low.

"My personal belief is that there may be some photoshopping going on with some of the uber smooth stuff......just a guess though. "
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Read into it what you will. No cheap shot attempted, no angst involved, just an observation and speculation drawn from decades of painting experience.
​

 

[DrEvilmonki]

I read into to it that you are willing to tarnish EVERYONES reputation (since you don't name anyone everyone becomes suspect) without any actual proof on an open forum.

 

[obsidianpainting]

Actually i'm with shawn on this one.

If people didn't use photoshop, then why would there be tutorials on how to correct images in the article section?

Cheers, Gary.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

I read into to it that you are willing to tarnish EVERYONES reputation (since you don't name anyone everyone becomes suspect) without any actual proof on an open forum.

.......................mmmmmmkay.

 

[Ritual]

Actually i'm with shawn on this one.

If people didn't use photoshop, then why would there be tutorials on how to correct images in the article section?

Cheers, Gary.

The tutorials are generally for fixing white balance etc. so that the pictures show what the mini looks like, or applying a nice background to the mini. Not to fix painting mistakes.

I think very few photographs on this site are photoshopped in the sense of fixing painting flaws or altering the photos to make the mini appear better painted than it actually is. I have seen the works of a quite large portion of the top painters in real life, and with few exceptions (if any) they really are that good, or better!

 

[Wren]

As a devotee of smooth, I have a few thoughts on what's been posted.

1. Photos can make things look smoother

I think that paint sometimes _can_ look smoother in a photo. I'm not talking about Photoshop effects, just a general observation on the nature of turning a 3D object into a 2D one. I started painting with primarily online examples. Once I finally started going to cons, seeing some of those same pieces (or others by the same artists) in person, they weren't always as flawlessly smooth as they appeared in photographs. However, in those cases, the pieces usually have more life or wow factor than they did in the photo.

As another example, a recent mini I painted was painted to have a section with a rougher, more textured appearance. To my disappointment, a lot of that effect faded or disappeared altogether when I photographed it. It is also frustrating that it can also be hard to get an accurate photo of minor paint issues that make paint look not very smooth to post and get feedback for possible solutions!

2. But you can achieve a pretty smooth result in the hand and under magnification

As I mentioned, I am a devotee of smooth. I strived for that in part because I didn't realize that not every mini was as perfectly smooth as it appeared in a photo! If there is one consistent comment that people make about my work, including on viewing it in person, it’s about how smooth it is. I paint under magnification, with the goal of achieving a smooth result under magnification and in large photographs. If I can post it directly onto the site (I don’t have Photobucket or anything), I would be happy to post a pic or two at full size out of the camera, pre-Photoshop.

I don’t claim everything I do is perfectly smooth and never a brushstroke nor dodgy blend to be seen. And there’s a lot of other stuff I’m not especially good at. And a lot of painters who are much better than I am. I’m just trying to say I think a fairly high quality of smoothness is obtainable without photo tricks.

3. ‘Cheating’ on smoothness or anything else isn’t the only reason to use Photoshop

I don’t know why everyone uses Photoshop, or how. I do know that for myself, and for other painters I’ve talked to, what we’re trying to do is get the damn picture to look LIKE the mini, not better than the mini. For me, that’s primarily a problem with colour correcting.

Minis DON’T look the same in person as online, and that’s far from only about how smooth they appear. One of my biggest regrets of my painting career is not buying a mini or three from people I admired in my early days of painting so I would have the real deal rather than just photos to study.

But as far as photos go, there was an interesting thread a few years ago where people of a variety of skill levels posted close-ups of their work. Some of the pictures no longer display (mine are gone, not sure why), but enough still do that’s it’s worth a look.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19141

 

[Tercha]

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I am no-where near the level of some of the artists here but I use a magnifier when I paint ...so there is no difference to the mini when viewed through a magnifying glass, no brush strokes, that must be a technique problem....and changes in colour?....of course!!

Use a magnifier when painting... or a microscope....what level do you want to get to? molecular?

Perhaps you should consider it a hobby rather than a quest for the holy grail, there will allways be someone "better" whether it be skill, style or technique, try enjoying it, you may even find you get "better"

 

[Ritual]

As a devotee of smooth, I have a few thoughts on what's been posted.

1. Photos can make things look smoother

I think that paint sometimes _can_ look smoother in a photo. I'm not talking about Photoshop effects, just a general observation on the nature of turning a 3D object into a 2D one. I started painting with primarily online examples. Once I finally started going to cons, seeing some of those same pieces (or others by the same artists) in person, they weren't always as flawlessly smooth as they appeared in photographs. However, in those cases, the pieces usually have more life or wow factor than they did in the photo.

A lot of photos, even though they appear sharp, are in fact ever so slightly blurry, and this is usually enough to make the paint seem smoother. As you say, this can be frustrating, and most top painters end up suffering, rather than gaining, by this effect as subtle colour or texture effects are obscured. The gain from the colour transitions appearing smoother is not enough to balance the loss of having other things disappear in the photos.

 

[freakinacage]

As a devotee of smooth, I have a few thoughts on what's been posted.

1. Photos can make things look smoother

I think that paint sometimes _can_ look smoother in a photo. I'm not talking about Photoshop effects, just a general observation on the nature of turning a 3D object into a 2D one. I started painting with primarily online examples. Once I finally started going to cons, seeing some of those same pieces (or others by the same artists) in person, they weren't always as flawlessly smooth as they appeared in photographs. However, in those cases, the pieces usually have more life or wow factor than they did in the photo.

aye totally agree

 

[generulpoleaxe]

@Tolwinz

Thin paint and practice is all any one needs, even for an afternoon paint job (even under a magnifying glass.) Their is also wetblending which is super quick and produces super smooth results (you usualy have to go back and tweek the extremes to give it the extra contrast though)

it's all down to practice (once i accepted i wasn't that good i started to improve, i'm still only a mid league painter and i can get super smooth results so you will be able to manage it as well.)

 

[Tolinwiz]

Use a magnifier when painting... or a microscope....what level do you want to get to? molecular?

Perhaps you should consider it a hobby rather than a quest for the holy grail, there will allways be someone "better" whether it be skill, style or technique, try enjoying it, you may even find you get "better"

Not exactly sure if this is supposed to be a burn or something, but I quite enjoy painting and trying to find the "holy grail"! Thanks for the advice!

To everyone else, thanks for the great advice as always guys.