California\'s latest stupidity

Khorga

New member
Yes.... multiple Party systems are no better. The problem here in germany is that the partys all work against each other so much, and the government just keeps taking more and more money... simply said.

But, i\'m still happy living here in germany, where working contracts for the different branches of industry are formally created by our Unions and the companys financial supervisors. That\'s why I as an trainee can have a payment of 9.13 Euros an hour :D

I feel sorry for you guys over there, and have respect for people that get up every day and just do their job to their best capabilities, even if they are underpaid.

cheers,

Chris
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Multiple parties would give us a choice, as opposed to what we currently have.

And, yes, I\'d love to see America return to it\'s Labor Union past. Every huge economic boom was supported by unionized workers.

Currently, only 8% of Americans have a union. Compare that with other industrialized nations, and it\'s appalling. Combine that with the fact that we have no support for a Health Care system that is running off the rails, and you can see why America is finishing last in categories they used to excel in.
 

Shawn R. L.

New member
Originally posted by paintingploddy
He\'s Republican - maybe he is trying to point out how unrealistically high it is.

If he was REALLY a republican he\'d cut the wasteful spending..........won\'t even get into my opinion on what that is other than to say I\'m a fan of WAAAAYY less government in general. Dubbuuw could use a whole lotta that too.............shoot, they ALL could. There doesn\'t seem to be much difference between the two parties anymore.

If I hear it correctly, those who register as independent is the fastest growing party.............change?? One can hope.

@supervike - While I support unions in principal, they have tended to be their own enemy. My dad was a business owner and ran a union shop. Soon as he went from worker to owner, he turned into the enemy in the unions eyes. His guys were making A LOT of money and the union made them go on strike for more. The unions of TODAY seem stuck in the 20\'s when more....even a lot more....was reasonable and very justified. Now, 90 years later and a WHOLE LOT MORE $$$, the operating guideline seems to simply be MORE!! I tend to blame them somewhat for our imigration problem. The unions simply priced themselves right out of the market.
 

arogers907

New member
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2008/08/18/daily39.html

It\'s tied up in court for the moment but it appears that this is the Plazma Rifle in the 40 Watt range that Conan is gonna use to force legislators to finalize a budget.

Looks like the min wage jobs are getting all the attention but there are a lot of jobs (prison, transit, others) that will be reduced but stay in the teens/hr.

It\'s a bold move. I have to think that it might look really impressive on paper. When you think about the families hanging in the balance, however, you\'ve got to think that it\'d be kinder just to fire folks and let them move on with their lives.
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by Shawn R. L.
@supervike - While I support unions in principal, they have tended to be their own enemy. My dad was a business owner and ran a union shop. Soon as he went from worker to owner, he turned into the enemy in the unions eyes. His guys were making A LOT of money and the union made them go on strike for more. The unions of TODAY seem stuck in the 20\'s when more....even a lot more....was reasonable and very justified. Now, 90 years later and a WHOLE LOT MORE $$$, the operating guideline seems to simply be MORE!! I tend to blame them somewhat for our imigration problem. The unions simply priced themselves right out of the market.

I can\'t say I disagree with you on some of the points, but the playing field isn\'t exactly equitible.

For instance, the CEO of my company makes 65,000 dollars PER DAY! That is more than the yearly base salary from any one of the \'union\' employees here. They have a reported 1.8 BILLION in \'liquid\' cash, but they have balked at a raise they could manage for was 3 percent. Inflation is currently at about 7.5 percent. So, in essence we\'ve taken a pay cut.

It is in any Unions best interests to keep the company they work for healthy, productive AND profitable. To price yourself out of work would be a ridiculous idea. Thats cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Unions members don\'t get to compete on an open playing field, because so many of the jobs can be \'sent to china or India\'. We cannot compete fairly with those countries. They do not use the same industrial standards we do, do not have the same laws.

Why don\'t they ever send the CEO or the board of directors titles to people in China, they could surely find someone who could do it for less that 65,000 per day, couldn\'t they?

It is far too easy to paint Unions as greedy pigs, but then somehow overlook the fact that the executives from many of these same companies basically steal money, they get a pass.

It\'s not too much to ask, is it? Union workers want an equitible share of the goods or services that they provide. Not one single Unionist will advocate bankrupting the company to do so.

The problem is that companies want huge profits. Not just profits, enormous ones. However, they see their own employees, not as assets and contributors to those profits, but liabilities!!

Ask any HR Director at ANY firm, and they will always say \"Employees are our number one ASSET!\"

Then ask for a COLA (cost of living adjustment) raise, and they go from ASSET number one, to greedy pigs! Practice what they preach!

I understand that Unions have themselves to blame for many of their woes. But a collective bargaining agreement protects workers rights, gives people dignity, AND produces superior products and services to any NON-union shop. It also creates a tax paying base and has the spiral effect of creating more jobs and services.

Of course the price of unionized labor is higher, it\'s a better product! Countless studies prove that, but somehow decision makers and bean counters cannot get past the fact that someone may make Time and a Half when they have to work past 40 hours.
 

Mr.S.Marbo

New member
Originally posted by lizcam
Here\'s what my friends from work have said about this. This IS in effect and is temporary and they will get all the pay they missed at some indeterminate time down the line. They are getting their first paychecks at the new rate on the first. There is no time limit for how long this will last and most will lose their homes, cars, ect. if it lasts more than 3 months.

I admit I don\'t know anything about US law but how are they going to do this without falling foul of some law? I am trying to think back all these years to my Employment Law module and I probably forgot most but I think here in the UK withholding pay for months to pay it over at later date sounds like a breach of contract and the employee could ask a court to enforce damages.

\"If certain payment arrangements have been agreed between the parties and the employer subsequently departs from these, then the employee may be entitled to make a breach of contract claim.\"

Surely there is similar laws in the US, how do they plan to get around this? Sounds pretty crazy. What do the trade unions have to say? I am sure if that was suggested in the UK the trade unions concerned would ballot their members to strike or take some other form of industrial action...
 

Prophet

New member
Originally posted by lizcam
Here\'s what my friends from work have said about this. This IS in effect and is temporary and they will get all the pay they missed at some indeterminate time down the line.

I don\'t think that\'s accurate. From my understanding, John Chiang, the state controller has refused to do this, questioning it\'s legality. The Department of Personnel Administration filed a lawsuit to force Chiang to do this, but the suit has not been heard yet. State employees will receive full checks for this month at least. This is the latest:
http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1173674.html
 
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