Can mini painting be art ?

[Beelzebrush]

It\'s not fine art to be honest... closest would be decorative art or even applied art

(glorified painting by numbers does sound better though spacemunkie lol)

 

[Queen of Credits]

Definitely it is art

Ian, you silly, , just drop me a line when you and I are competing for the same piece. Every so often I have to remind myself I can\'t own all the mini art in the world. I have to be a \"nice queen\" and share.

Regarding the whole concept of \"what is art\", mini artists, and such, see my self important poetic waxings posted on the Hawaii Gamers\' Forum awhile back at:
http://www.hawaiigamers.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=821

It is only a 2 page thread, and it starts out fairly brutal of one of our \"favorite sons\" and his miniature piece, but the ending is wonderful.

 

[darkartminiatures]

*bows* Respect to the queen! WOW. Thats alot of minis you have.

sorry folks for this little side line but i have just visited QoC\'s site

 

[funnymouth]

well, when i paint i think its art, and for me, thats enough. as for painting vs. playing - art can be functional too.

 

[angus147258]

Painting/sculpting miniatures has really caused me to excell with art. I aspire to be an artist (PROFESSIONALLY :yes: ) for the rest of my life. I also airbrush though that really helps. Minis are as much art as ABing though!

Jake

 

[vincegamer]

just skimming it now, but I question your examples.

I didn\'t say \"no\" to your questions about manzzoni’s Mierda de Artista or Klein’s monochromes simply because I have no idea what you are talking about. Never heard of either.

As to Mondrian: \"I seriously doubt that anyone can honestly say to find his paintings beautiful at first glance.\" Well, I do find them beautiful at first glance. Symetry and balance are beautiful things, and Mondrian used them well.

I think you\'d be hard pressed to find something universally seen as art but not beautiful, but you could have come up with a better example than that - architectural designs of I.M. Pei possibly?

 

[Avelorn]

@QoC: Some great reading! Thanks...

I\'m a collector too now. I\'ve bought miniatures by many of my old heroes. Like Dave Perry, Joe Hill, Steve Buddle, Adrian Bay, Neil Langdown and Ben Jefferson.

And art is not like the history subject imo. You don\'t have to be an insider to be an artist... you\'ll see that our little babies will be in the galleries some time in the future. Just a question of when.

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by vincegamer
just skimming it now, but I question your examples.

I didn\'t say \"no\" to your questions about manzzoni’s Mierda de Artista or Klein’s monochromes simply because I have no idea what you are talking about. Never heard of either.

Manzonni\'s merda de artista was made by manzzoni to provoc a reflexion the whole concept of art and was in the direct line of the dada mouvement. He\'s less provocative piece of art include achrome painting (just white but with varying texture, and forms).

Klein\'s monochrome are extremly famous for anyone who\'s taken an interest at modern art. He made quite a few hundred of them, all with one color which as since then become known as klein blue and which is one of the only copyrighted colors in the world. A small search on the subject should give you more picture then you could ever look at in a life time

As to Mondrian: \"I seriously doubt that anyone can honestly say to find his paintings beautiful at first glance.\" Well, I do find them beautiful at first glance. Symetry and balance are beautiful things, and Mondrian used them well.

well, like I said we can\'t all agree. But most people I\'v ever discussed the subject with didn\'t find the paintings beutifull at first glance, and a survey in the street would most probably yield a high percentage of \'not beautiful\' opinions.
Just on thing most of his paintings, and the ones for which he his most famous, don\'t have any symetry to them beeing impresionist rendering of actual scenery. Mondrians process was to narrow down our view of the world to just horizontals and verticals and dominating colors (processe which klein pushed to the extreme with the monochroms)

[/quote]
I think you\'d be hard pressed to find something universally seen as art but not beautiful, but you could have come up with a better example than that - architectural designs of I.M. Pei possibly? [/quote]

Well most moderne art museum seem to contain quit a few examples.
Ceasar\'s compressions are the first thing to come to mind, any achrome painter could most probably do the trick (unless you\'re madly in love with white),

 

[philologus]

I\'ll say it again; I don\'t know what should be classified as art. You can call anything \"art\". The only time I get pissed is when my tax dollars support it. Beyond that, everyone can be artists for all I care.

 

[Ogrebane]

Art not art who cares as long as it looks good. I wouldnt even try to suggest what art is. For a start Im not europeon so I wouldnt qualify to even know. I do know that some of the minis on this site are of a higher \"Artistic\" quality than some stuff I have seen in museums and art galleries.

I wouldnt rate myself as an artist but I do have some artisitic leanings some of which I express in painting minis. Funny thing is I have spent 1/10th the time on a portrait and had it called art and a mini wouldnt even get a mention.

So if you enjoy it, doing it looking at it then who cares what its called, me personally I think its all art even the stuff that makes me want to throw up (and Im not talking just minis here) just not all of it is good art.

 

[Brimshack]

I often wonder why the question is so loaded to begin with. The very sacredness of the term to some people makes for lot of sillyness in my opinion. Yes, I think mini painting is \"art.\" Is that in and of itself a weighty judgement? Not really.

 

[Ritual]

I don\'t want to be associated with the \"art\" world, and I know for sure THEY wouldn\'t include me or any other miniature painter in their group either... So, therefore, I chose to not call what I do art... not because of any extreme reverence or respect of the \"fine arts\"! I don\'t pretend to understand what \"art\" is supposed to be, with today\'s views, and therefore I don\'t consider myself an artist in that sense!

I don\'t see it as demeaning to not call it art. It demands creativity, technical skills, imagination, sense of aesthetics, etc. I leave it at that... It\'s a creative and stimulating activity!

 

[dougaderly]

I married an artist myself, and she has the most pragmatic view on what is art and what isn\'t, so I come to this arguement with her voice in the back of my head telling me how basically it\'s art if you can get enough people to say it is, and it\'s good art if you can get someone else to buy it lol
I think what we do is art, or at least, an excercise in art, like those black to white color gradients so many of us have had to do in art class before. Regardless of what one calls it, I like doing it. This whole conversation just makes me think of the drunken stupors we get into in early May, then head down to Boston to watch the Massart performance art students put on their final projects. Most of the time it involves naked fire-dancing, trabopolines, and impromptu instrument marching bands. And I get to see boobies. That makes it art. Boobies....

 

[Gilvan Blight]

The local arts council here in Windsor, actually supports mini painting as an art form. They allow painters to enter their works into shows and even rent their local gallery (though I don\'t know enough mini painters to fill it). I personally have submitted 3 minis to a show hosted there.

My theory on whether it\'s art or not. It depends on two things, the painter and the viewer. If the painter paints it thinking it\'s art and as an art piece then it\'s art. If they paint it as a gaming piece, then it\'s a gaming piece. The viewer can turn a gaming piece into Art, if they view it and think of it as Art. Hmm that came out better in my head, but I think you get the idea.

 

[Queen of Credits]

You are TOO an artist !

Ritual, your post made me so sad. :no: It reminded me of the feelings I had when I was told once that \"nothing you write will ever be important\".... (Many years later today I am a lawyer and my \"art\" is word-smithing,...an art at which I am successful and well paid). I look at miniature painters in general as I do any other artist, ...someone who pours their time, talent, and feelings into their creation. The \"art world\" is TOO accepting miniature painting as an art. FYI, my plans for a miniature museum exhibition are in full throttle. Musuem curators are INTERESTED in this \"strange but incredibly beautiful art.\" Look at my miniature of the month, Grallappousah de Barback by Jeremie Bonamant Teboul on my website and tell me that is \"not art\". People are BLOWN AWAY when I show then that \"painted and sculpted miniature\" in person. That is only one extreme example of the \"art\" of miniature painting and sculpting. Please do not demean yourself and discount your efforts and talents. YOU ARE TOO AN ARTIST !

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
Hmm that came out better in my head, but I think you get the idea.

Yeah... why even bother debating this since everyone have their own minds about it anyway... lol

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Queen of Credits
Ritual, your post made me so sad. :no: It reminded me of the feelings I had when I was told once that \"nothing you write will ever be important\".... (Many years later today I am a lawyer and my \"art\" is word-smithing,...an art at which I am successful and well paid). I look at miniature painters in general as I do any other artist, ...someone who pours their time, talent, and feelings into their creation. The \"art world\" is TOO accepting miniature painting as an art. FYI, my plans for a miniature museum exhibition are in full throttle. Musuem curators are INTERESTED in this \"strange but incredibly beautiful art.\" Look at my miniature of the month, Grallappousah de Barback by Jeremie Bonamant Teboul on my website and tell me that is \"not art\". People are BLOWN AWAY when I show then that \"painted and sculpted miniature\" in person. That is only one extreme example of the \"art\" of miniature painting and sculpting. Please do not demean yourself and discount your efforts and talents. YOU ARE TOO AN ARTIST !

@QofC
Don\'t be sad on my account! I absolutely DON\'T see it as demeaning to not call what I do art! Art is just a word... and because this word is so ladden with opinions and prestige (I have many friends who are \"real\" artists, so I know what I\'m talking about...), I chose not to associate myself or my craft with that area! That does NOT mean that I don\'t see my work as important (because it is to me) and it does NOT mean that I don\'t appreciate other people\'s work for what it is. I just won\'t use the word \"art\". What I do is important to me whatever word I chose to call it by, so wether it\'s art or not is really not very interesting, IMO!

 

[Avelorn]

@Ritual and QoC: I think that the swedish word for artist is even more pre-loaded with meanings then the american/english one. I think I\'ve said this before.. but I don\'t think I have a problem to call myself an artist.. but the swedish word \'konstnär\' I\'d never use. From where I come from.. being a \"konstnär\" isn\'t something positive. Sure a lot of people paint and draw.. but it\'s only their \"scribbles\" or \"dabbing\". Konstnär only have a relation to \"fine art\" in swedish and is loaded with pretentions. If you say your a \"konstnär\" when you do music.. it\'s really more a code-name for something that is difficult to listen to. Like if you record a frog humping your hand.. then you\'re an artist. If your a great musician and make music people understand.. then you\'re not. The english word has many more meanings.. visual artists etc. Something few people here would call themselves.

I don\'t want to be associated with the \"art\" world, and I know for sure THEY wouldn\'t include me or any other miniature painter in their group either...

However I don\'t think this necessary is true. I know many \"artists\" as well.. And they have never talked demeaning about my hobby in relation to what they do. And just wait... what is not \"fine arts\" now can quite easily become it.. even if it\'s first done with a bit of irony. There are a lot of inspiration from different kind of art movements in what we do and people will no doubt push the limits so it will gain the attention of the art world. The question is.. is that a good thing?

 

[Ritual]

As always, Sven manages to explain more eloquently some of the things that were in my mind. I was going to mention how we have a special word for someone producing \"fine art\" and how that is slightly more \"ladden\" than the English word \"artist\", but I had already two posts in a row... lol

And of course, Jeremie\'s work is AMAZING in my eyes as well as in yours Katheryn... what word I use to label it as doesn\'t change any of that! It\'s only words, and when words become too associated with different types of preconceptions they become difficult to use... so it\'s often better to use other words! In my opinion, at least....

 

[green stuff]

Message original : Avelorn
you\'ll see that our little babies will be in the galleries some time in the future. Just a question of when.

You should come to Lyon some day, we\'ve got a museum on miniatures . You won\'t find any \"wargaming\" type miniatures, but there are a lot of dioramas and historical minis : http://www.mimlyon.com/ .