Chalky Painting!

[J2FcM]

AND here I am again, with my age old question...

From start to finish I always manage to induce some sort of chalkiness in my painting.

I think I\'ve improved my priming by using slower passes and keeping the spray at about 6 inches.

Now, I wonder... I know I am using a lot of dilution, with distilled water.

My brushes, are the utterly crappy GW brushes... and I know my local shops don\'t have Series 7\'s... so I supposse I must know what to look for in a brush without having a brand in mind.

But, I read something about mixing my paints... mix them gently... or you might get chalky results. Typically, I vigorously stirr my water and paint with the end of a brush, on top of a CD case. So, perhaps this is my chalky origins?


Now without the use of EricJ\'s feathering techniques, I get semi crappy coats, but when I use it, I get more chalkyiness but smooth color transitions...

oye! what a ramble. :drunk:

 

[MPJ]

Adding water to paints does dilute them and can partially contribute to chalkyness. You can try thinning with Future Floor Polish.

The brushes arn\'t likley contributing to the chaulky appearancce and while depending on which GW brushes you have they might not be Sable but they arn\'t that bad either.

How clean is the CD case? Dust can be a big factor, most painters prefer a pallet that is white. I myself use plastic card, which would be expensive but I used to work for a company that used the stuff extensivly in manufacture and have hundreds of 14\"x14\" sheets of the stuff that were all misprinted upon.

It would help to post a picture of a mini with this chaulky appearance, different chaulky looks can come from different sources and someone might pick up on it better with a picture.

Do you drybrush? Good drybrushing is much harder than it sounds and very often leaves a chaulky appearance.

BTW, yes I know I spelled \'chaulky\' several different ways, couldn\'t decide how it should be spelled.

 

[J2FcM]

I have Future Floor Polish, but I dislike it for its shine... though I suppose, a finishing matte coat can solve that???


My CD cases, I wash with soap and warm water always before and after use.

No dry brushing. I just attempt EricJ\'s feathering, and just layering.

I\'ll get my most recent mini attempt, with a pic. Perhaps I am over thinning though, I usually dab drops of water off the end of a brush, and do that same with paint, although I am sure a lot of excess paint remains on the brush end, while the water all comes off, so when I think I am making a 7:1, its prolly like 10+:1

But do you think mixing paint with the brush end vigoursly might cause chalkiness? I\'m going to start gentl mixing with a crappo GW brush now

 

[Legacy Account]

Put less water in your paint. I usually go with just slightly more water than paint. Can\'t be doing with paint that\'s too watery.

 

[matty1001]

I always use about 1.5 to 1 so the paint soaks into the brush but doesn\'t run all over the model when i apply it.

 

[J2FcM]

@matty, the problem I run into is the pigment is either diffusing or something. I think your running paint problem stems more form the fact you have your brush over loaded with paint.


does anyone have an idea about when GW paints begin turning crappolla, from over dilution? I may have been using as much as 15:1 or more without really realizing it, and this might be the cause of my chalky painting problems. For instance, with my very smooth color transitions, I can easily do 30+ wet featherings, but there is still chalky textured looks to it. So, at this point in time in my...
1) Over-dilution.
2) Poor brush stroke ettiquete?
3)Crappy GW brushes
4) poor job priming

I\'m going to aim my head in the direction of 1) Over-dilution for now, and start reducing my water usage by about a 1/4 of what I usually use.


Also, when using future floor wash, how can I effectivly eliminate the glare it produces? I find it highly annoying, but can deal with it as long as the finished product is rid of it.

 

[Avelorn]

Do you mean blotchy.. or that the surface is chalky..? Is there a structure to the paint on the mini or is it just that the paint disperse unevenly on the mini.

Water doesn\'t make the paint chalky generally.. I only get that effect sometimes when it sepparates on the pallette. But if you have bad tap water that might affect the paint. For base layers I use a 1:1 mix of water/paint. For layering I use around 3:1-4:1. For glazes and slightly changing hues I use up to maybe 10:1.

 

[matty1001]

Iv tried tinning paint 8:1 but that in my eyes is just far to watery, 1.5:1 seems ample enough to me to get a decent enough coat with a brush load of paint. Im not telling anyone to do this, this is just my prefered way of doing it. I think everyone should find what they are suitable with and use it the best they can.

 

[J2FcM]

Originally posted by Avelorn
Do you mean blotchy.. or that the surface is chalky..? Is there a structure to the paint on the mini or is it just that the paint disperse unevenly on the mini.

Water doesn\'t make the paint chalky generally.. I only get that effect sometimes when it sepparates on the pallette. But if you have bad tap water that might affect the paint. For base layers I use a 1:1 mix of water/paint. For layering I use around 3:1-4:1. For glazes and slightly changing hues I use up to maybe 10:1.

Well, for example... I practiced on a stealth suit gun barrel... I did shadow grey at the base of it, and did EricJ\'s wet feathering, up to bleached bone then white at the tip. From far away, it was a very nice color transition. Up close, it was not bumpy, or lumpy. It had a chalky look to it.
I also, always use diluted water. Paper towels for wicking excess paint off brush. Warm water to stir my brushes in after every few minutes. How then can I ensure the paint isn\'t separating? and how should I stirr the paint?
I thought maybe then, a poor priming coat caused the problem, but I re-worked my priming, and seem to have quite smooth coats with that.

I just keep trying to hit this problem from every angle. And with so much \"dilute, dilute and more dilute!\" on the internet, I may have over-hydrated.

or... used poor brush stroke technique? hah!

 

[demonherald]

A couple of elements of what you mention could contribute....(I\'m assuming by Chalkiness you mean it looks a little like it has been drawn on with chalk..slightly textured an dusty looking.)

The most important of these is WARM water... warm water carries more impurities in suspension ..this can be anything from residue in the pipes calcium carbonate in the water household dust or paint residue.. As it cools on the model these things will inevitably solidify and can contribute to the chalkiness you talk of...
The other is the use of a paper towel which really can add to texture in paint due to the introduction of tiny fibres ..Try blotting paper instead.
Make sure water is clean...hopefuly your doing this anyway....
Try a water softener like calgon or similar it really works....
Lastly in terms of mixing too vigorously..basically when mixing don\'t cause bubbles bubbles are bad. Bubbles we can see really spoil a paint effect bubbles we can\'t see cause paint to go owdery,,avoid them...

To help remedy when you already have them try light glazes to enrich colours.

Hope that helps ..pic would help...:drunk:

 

[J2FcM]

OK...

on my list of new tactics to use.

Less Dilution.
Stop using paper towels.
Don\'t use warm rinsing water.



I\'ve got some real shoddy pics that I just took. But, we\'ll see, I\'ll post em tomorrow.

 

[krom1415]

I\'m sure this has been said before, but here goes. Make sure your paint pots have not been left open, thus forming dry bits that could get into the main paint.
Make sure you dont have any dry paint in your ferrules of your brushes.
Try not to use white to mix with colours for highlights as white can be the worst for this chaukyness problem.

 

[Avelorn]

Originally posted by J2FcM

Originally posted by Avelorn
From far away, it was a very nice color transition. Up close, it was not bumpy, or lumpy. It had a chalky look to it.

So you get a smooth surface but the paint dry unevenly? My next question is.. do you see that effect before it dries?

When using Eric\'s \"brushing away\" techniqe.. you could be sweeping away some pigments while others have the chance to dry if you aren\'t quick enough.

It could be from over diluting.. but it also depends if you know where to put your pigments, and if you overload your brush with paint. When using very diluted paint I \"draw\" the drop of paint containing the pigments drom point A to point B. Then I clean the brush very quickly and suck up the excess paint and feather the transition into the previous layer (if necessary...). I continue to do that in several passings. If there is blotchiness or a transition between the layers I mix a midtone and glaze it over the transition or over the blotchy part. Then I re-highlight with the first colour.

Lastly.. a glaze medium is what you can use with very diluted paint so it tints the entire surface mor evenly.

 

[J2FcM]

Typically, with Eric\'s technique, I put a drop of paint on whatever surface. Then I take my larger brush and drag it out. Sometimes I\'ll use short strokes to drag the paint into every area I need. Usually my brush stroke is wild and crazy, because I figure, it makes so little difference with each passing, since the paint is so thin.

But, for example, I do 30+ feathering passes on each surface... So, when I had shadow grey and wanted to pass into bleached bone, it was at least 30x. Then adding white for the very tip.


This is the only pic I have now which somewhat demonstarates what I am talking about. Mostly, what it shows, is a textured look ALL OVER, like on the primed head, as well as the gun. But, it is a terrible photo.

 

[Legacy Account]

White paint is often chalky. Try another colour - bone or SW grey, something like that. 30 layers on that model? That\'s manic. Are you lightening each individual layer? That could be your problem. You should be able to get a nicely feathered blend with only 3 or 4 highlights.

For Shadow Grey, I shade with a dark blue/black mix, reapply the grey, then do two highlights by lightening with SW Grey, then finish with a final pure SW Grey highlight.

You may well be lifting the paint you have already layed down by effectively scrubbing over it so many times. The paint obviously won\'t bcome liquid again, but will rub off in little bits, then dry into the wet paint you are subsequently applying. I reckon that could give you the dusty look you\'re getting.

 

[J2FcM]

Thanks for the replies guys.

@Spacemunkie, I was just attempting, shadow grey to bleached bone, color transition. Not really highlighting or anything. But yes, I fear my paint was over diluted then if 30 layers is apparently a lil wacko, hehehe.

Anyways, these are the photos I took last night, they are simply awful... next up I will look at digi. camera photography. Enjoy the out of focus, yellow kitchen lighting:cussing:
Hah, and I think my dark NMM attempt on the spear tip is... umm... failing?

 

[J2FcM]

Priming.

sort of a bump.

And just to be sure... How much does chalky results depend on priming? I mean, I prime my mini black. There are some uncovered areas, but over all it looks smooth... should a good priming job look smooth?

What are tell tale sign of a crappo priming? and what are the results if it is done improperly? It just seems like no one really seems to think my problem stems from that, where as I keep wondering???