Choosing the Right Color for Shading

[Flow]

I found this awesome little video demonstrating shading done on a cape and it is a good example for a question of mine.

Naively, I would think that, if you wish to create a slightly darker version of a color in order to shade its deeper areas, you would simple take that color and add a bit of black. In practice this hasn't turned out well. Often it just creates a "dirty" color that doesn't really look like a proper shadow.

In the video, the artist takes the base red that he used for the cape and actually mixes a bit of deep blue. The effect of this combination is pretty awesome and obviously works great.

So - is there any guideline to use in 'darkening' a color in order to paint shadowed folds and creases? On my own I don't think I ever would have thought of using blue.

Case in point - I'm currently messing with the Bone Devil from Otherworld. I painted a base color that is a mixture of titanium white with a tad of naples yellow - this made up a good "bone-y" color that seems to work. What would be good to add to this mixture in order to paint the darker shadows on this guy?

 

[ced1106]

I hope someone has a good answer to this, because, as a fellow n00b, I'm not finding one.

When you mix paint, you're not mixing colors. It's closer to mixing different chemicals, and how they interact with each other results in the color that you see.

"Small amounts of other colours are hidden within each pigment – this gives each colour a colour bias. .... With paint pigments you can’t find a ‘pure’ red, for example, that will make both a good orange (when mixed with yellow) and a good purple (when mixed with blue).This is because the red will have a bias towards either orange or purple due to the chemical impurities found within every pigment.So a red that has an orange bias (Cadmium Red) will mix a bright orange, but will not mix a bright purple."

http://willkempartschool.com/the-hidden-secret-of-colour-mixing/
http://willkempartschool.com/beginners-colour-mixing-acrylic-paint/

So... great. You've just spent $12 on two reds and two blues to hope that one of the four purples works for you...!

Also found this article, which points out that real-life shading isn't just adding black: http://www.art-is-fun.com/mixing-colors.html

If you *like* to mix paints, you've opened yourself to a world of painting. If you just want to paint the d*mn thing, many hobby paint companies have triads of shade, highlight, and midtone specially made to work together. They've done all the mixing work, although you will still have to blend the darn things...!

 

[Dragonsreach]

Wow there's a whole slew of threads on colour theory and adding complementary colours to "darken" a colour for shading.
Einion is one of this sites best people to explain in simpler terms what the basic concept is, look for threads which he's responded at length and it'll be better than a lot of book explanations.

 

[Bailey03]

Yeah, black for shadows seems obvious but the results aren't always that great. Blues and purples can be interesting. I also find dark browns to be pretty useful. The best advice I can give is to experiment, try out different combinations and see what looks good or interesting. Also take a look at references. What color are the shadows for different objects in real life.

When it comes to bone, I tend to go for browns when I shade. I wouldn't jump to a really dark brown, instead I'd take more of a medium brown. I'd save the dark brown for the eye and nose holes in the skull, stuff like that. But that doesn't mean other colors wouldn't work equally well. Here's an example of a skeleton where the artist uses more blues to create a night effect
http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1691-twilit-skeleton-guide

 

[Einion]

TVM Mike :highfive:

Naively, I would think that, if you wish to create a slightly darker version of a color in order to shade its deeper areas, you would simple take that color and add a bit of black.

Don't be too hard on yourself, nearly everyone who has done some self-instruction with colour mixing has tried this route because it appears logical - it does seem like it should work, doesn't it?

And it can work quite well, but it's definitely not the way to go all the time; case in point being yellows, where adding black tends to make ugh (primarily because the colour shifts towards green... the secret here, if you can call it that, would be not to just use black... more on that later).

In practice this hasn't turned out well. Often it just creates a "dirty" color that doesn't really look like a proper shadow.

In reality shadows are often a lot duller (or "dirtier") than the image we have in our heads, particularly so for colours that aren't that vivid to begin with. And sometimes adding black can work quite well; as a rule it's most sure to be useful for the shadow mixes on colours that are already reasonably dark, and the darker the colour the more likely to work well.

One of the big issues with adding only black for shadow mixtures is that it's easy to add too much, but if you for example add just enough to make a noticeable difference from your base colour and then try that you're much more likely to get a colour that looks okay. But this is highly dependent on the paints you're using - because paints are physical substances, not colour in the abstract - as well as (very much) on what you think looks right.

Which is the important next point: individual taste; this is the absolute bottom line when in comes to all colour mixing. There are many different ways you can mix highlights and shadows and what one person likes because they think it looks awesome another person will actively hate, because they think it looks wrong or naff or garish. So a huge range of colour is workable, even starting from exactly the same starting point.

So - is there any guideline to use in 'darkening' a color in order to paint shadowed folds and creases?

No. There are plenty of guidelines, but there are unfortunately no hard-and-fast rules.

One might argue that mixing complements are a sure bet but that's not the case because of the individual taste thing; complements are a 100% sure route to lower chroma (duller) colour which tends to mimic what we see IRL, but of course that's not what everyone wants when they paint.

The example you gave of blue added to red, this is very counter-intuitive to anyone new to the idea with the obvious first thought being that it'll make some sort of purple. And it can, but not in every case (because of colour differences we can't immediately see and mixing differences between pigments). Even if it did make the colour noticeably violet there is someone out there that'll really like how that looks and want to use it - what would be a flaw for some is a desirable outcome for others.

Case in point - I'm currently messing with the Bone Devil from Otherworld. I painted a base color that is a mixture of titanium white with a tad of naples yellow - this made up a good "bone-y" color that seems to work. What would be good to add to this mixture in order to paint the darker shadows on this guy?

As you can guess, loads of possible answers here. First thing you might like to do is check the label of the Naples Yellow, see what that's made from to begin with (most are already mixtures) and then you might get some ideas based on that.

Second thing to consider is what style you're going for, or what kind of shadows you want - realistic, cartoony, somewhere in between; subtle contrast or very contrasty etc. etc.

Einion

 

[Einion]

Just now checking those links given previous to my post, the first site is a brilliant example of what I've warned about in the past how you can't trust 'experts', not just on the Internet but perhaps more so there than anywhere.

Einion

 

[Flow]

Great answers!

I do apologize if I'm increasing subject duplication; I poked around looking for something on choosing colors for shading, but perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

The idea that there are no hard and fast rules kind of opens things up for me mentally. I had been feeling a little frustrated as I didn't know the "right" way, not realizing that there was no specific rigid answer. I think I am too used to literal solutions.

I will experiment a bit with this guy. The idea of using some sort of light brown seems intriguing.

Just now checking those links given previous to my post, the first site is a brilliant example of what I've warned about in the past how you can't trust 'experts', not just on the Internet but perhaps more so there than anywhere.

I have learned this to be true on other subjects as well! Which link specifically is problematic? Is it the willkempartschool.com link?

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Einion]

I do apologize if I'm increasing subject duplication; I poked around looking for something on choosing colors for shading, but perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

Given the huge number of "What do I use to strip paint?" and "Gimme your thinning ratios" threads I wouldn't worry

The idea that there are no hard and fast rules kind of opens things up for me mentally. I had been feeling a little frustrated as I didn't know the "right" way, not realizing that there was no specific rigid answer. I think I am too used to literal solutions.

Common problem. Mixing seems so difficult sometimes (mainly because of irregular results that seem to disagree with an underlying principle) so people often seek a better way and may then come to believe there's that one better way, and there is... only it's different for each person.

Just now checking those links given previous to my post, the first site is a brilliant example of what I've warned about in the past how you can't trust 'experts', not just on the Internet but perhaps more so there than anywhere.

I have learned this to be true on other subjects as well! Which link specifically is problematic? Is it the willkempartschool.com link?

The second link to acrylic colour mixing basics. Lots on the site I'd disagree with (differences in philosophy) but the bit on colour theory and complements is just outright wrong, and poorly written to boot.

Einion

 

[Einion]

In terms of shading what you're currently working on, definitely experiment with a few different approaches and look at the results side by side, rarely is it a waste of time or paint to play around with various mixes and it can prove to be very useful somewhere down the line.

So first thing to ask yourself is what colour is your Naples Yellow? I know you can see right there what it looks like but what colour is that?

If you don't already do this try to break it down intellectually, you'd be amazed how useful this can be. Most Naples Yellow paints these days are orange-yellow in hue, and the natural shadow colour is still that same hue. Any true brown is much redder than this (hue is orange broadly speaking) so bear that in mind when you look at the effect of adding brown to your base colour.

First approach I'd recommend you try is mixing a grey of the same value as your Naples Yellow, then mix them together to a point halfway between those two (don't expect it to be a 1:1 mix of the paints). That blend could form the basis of most of your shadow mixtures, with just a little black added for the very darkest touches.

Einion

 

[meaty_nosebleeds]

rarely is it a waste of time or paint to play around with various mixes and it can prove to be very useful somewhere down the line.
Einion

i completely agree with Einion here. play with all sorts of colours, not just those that might seem obvious. you'll be amazed with what you can come up with if you just sit down with some test minis and play. you'll find that the more you paint and experiment, the more you will begin to like a specific way of painting or "style" wether that be an extremely smooth cartoony style, ultra textured and gritty, or creating a multitude of different subtle hues across your colours. there are as many styles out there as the artist, and your style will depend on your personal tastes. the main idea is to grab a paintbrush and enjoy yourself!

 

[Flow]

I gave it a tentative shot earlier, before I saw Einion's good advice. I went with adding a bit of brown - just a smidgen of raw sienna, actually. As suggested, it did turn the color to a vague orange tinge.The funny thing is, is that I actually kind of like it. It's not the "right color" for realism's sake, but it still looks interesting.

In order to keep experimenting, I believe I'll probably back out of those changes and give a bit of grey a shot, and see how that works.

 

[Einion]

i completely agree with Einion here. play with all sorts of colours, not just those that might seem obvious. you'll be amazed with what you can come up with if you just sit down with some test minis and play.

Totally.

This is something that's not often mentioned, that there aren't any rules to mixing - in the sense of "never mix X with Y". There are mixing guides, painters and teachers who will say things like this and sometimes have elaborate reasoning/justification for why* but often they completely ignore a very fundamental point. In actual fact you shouldn't mix X with Y if you want a specific outcome and this doesn't give that result, but that's the only reason not to.

Whatever colour does result from that mix it's just a colour, no better or worse than any other colour; just needs to be used in the right place. Plenty of "ugly", "dirty" or "killed" colours are exactly what is needed in certain contexts, despite how they look out of context.

*One of the choice examples from painting circles in the modern era - never use black - is very apt for this thread.

I gave it a tentative shot earlier, before I saw Einion's good advice. I went with adding a bit of brown - just a smidgen of raw sienna, actually. As suggested, it did turn the color to a vague orange tinge.

Won't bore you with extraneous details but while Raw Sienna is an earth it's not technically brown; there's a deal of subjectivity here so don't get hung up on the semantics of what is or isn't brown, it actually doesn't matter much except where one needs to be very specific verbally and there are ways around the problem when you need higher-order descriptions that avoid loaded terms (like brown, beige, khaki, olive).

Anyway, Raw Sienna paints will tend to be a good colour match for what you're doing here since they're mostly dullish orange-yellows, which should be in the right ballpark at least. But they tend to have higher chroma than you need for this purpose, that orange tinge you describe might actually be dead on the correct hue it's just that the chroma is too high. So it may be that just dulling it down a smidge is all that's required and adding grey is one of the better ways of doing this.

The funny thing is, is that I actually kind of like it. It's not the "right color" for realism's sake, but it still looks interesting.

Yep, how you feel about it is all that matters at the end of the day.

Einion

 

[Routaporsas]

The second link to acrylic colour mixing basics. Lots on the site I'd disagree with (differences in philosophy) but the bit on colour theory and complements is just outright wrong, and poorly written to boot.

Einion

You mean this: http://willkempartschool.com/beginne...acrylic-paint/

Now I must ask; what is outright wrong about his text?

 

[Einion]

Now I must ask; what is outright wrong about his text?

Too much to get into here (literally, would take a few minutes to list but two hours+ to explain). The most obvious thing though is the colour wheel, which is the old RYB type, outmoded for nearly a century now.

A wheel needs to be laid out pretty much like this to be at all accurate and worth paying attention to:

Einion

 

[Routaporsas]

Too much to get into here (literally, would take a few minutes to list but two hours+ to explain). The most obvious thing though is the colour wheel, which is the old RYB type, outmoded for nearly a century now.

A wheel needs to be laid out pretty much like this to be at all accurate and worth paying attention to:

Einion

Well this is very confusing. So many places and books still look the color wheel like it is behind that link. Primary colors being reb, yellow and blue. Secondary orange, violet, and green. How come it is used evn in schools if that is so outdated and wrong? It is really diffucult treying to master this painting when you can't even rely on what has been teached. I mean even though wikipedia is not the best way to find correct info, one might think that at leat some one would have corrected this;

RYB (red, yellow, and blue) is a historical set of subtractive primary colors. It is primarily used in art and art education, particularly painting

Yes, it says that it is historical set of primary colors, and there is this other more modern version which indicates that Yellow, Cyan and Magenta are primary colors and secondary are red, green and blue. I once asked about this from a person who studies arts and he said that RYB is the one that is used. Is it actually wrong to use RYB model. Even though there aren't just one right or wrong way to do, but I'm still a bit confused that you said it is actually wrong, and yet it is still used :sad:. J.M. Parramon also gives this CYM model in his book about oil painting (and yet he uses in some examples RYB model). This actually led me to study and ask about these different color models, but the answer I got was basically "the RYB is the one used in painting".

I'm not saying that you wouldn't be right. I studied arts last time in college about 13 years ago, and after that I have just tried to find info from the internet and from books. It is just a bit confusing.

 

[Garshnak]

It is very confusing indeed since different colour wheels tend to come from different perspectives. And I don't fully agree that only one needs to be considered and is 'most correct'.

This website page might help explaining things a little bit: http://www.huevaluechroma.com/012.php

The way I see it, is that you have to consider 2 colour wheels.
One for mixing colours and moving around in colourspace to get the colour you need. Which is sorta like good old subtractive RYB colour wheel, but not really. It's kind of silly, since you can't mix colours of full chroma from other colours, so if you want bright colours you'd want to mix as little as possible anyway, just for consideration. Also, you can't really mix that much from those 'primaries' anyway and get good results (which is also why printers use CYMK and cheat colour mixing, yay pointillism).
And one for picking colours to get the correct colour stimuli response you want (for colour-compositional purposes and simulating realistic material and light properties). And that's the one Einion posted. That one you use for figuring out complementary colours, not the other one.

 

[Einion]

Well this is very confusing. So many places and books still look the color wheel like it is behind that link. Primary colors being reb, yellow and blue. Secondary orange, violet, and green.

Yes, it is very confusing. Believe me, I share your pain because I had to go through the same revising of my thinking.

How come it is used evn in schools if that is so outdated and wrong?

Good question. It's hard to know for sure - inertia/resistance to change, unwillingness to confront outmoded thinking, a "this is what I learned so it must be right" kind of attitude? In fairness though, there is lots that schools teach kids that's wrong, because the textbooks are wrong.

Yes, it says that it is historical set of primary colors, and there is this other more modern version which indicates that Yellow, Cyan and Magenta are primary colors and secondary are red, green and blue. I once asked about this from a person who studies arts and he said that RYB is the one that is used. Is it actually wrong to use RYB model. Even though there aren't just one right or wrong way to do, but I'm still a bit confused that you said it is actually wrong, and yet it is still used :sad:.

Well let me put it this way, do you want to use a colour model that leaves two hues out? And as a result many colour relationships are skewed (including all the complementaries)?

One thing you see brought up a lot in arguments from older (or just old-school) RYB thinkers is that we paint with RYB primaries so why not use the RYB model? Ignoring that not everyone does paint with those it's really very simple - the two hues that are ignored, cyan and magenta. Just because you're using red, yellow and blue doesn't mean these hues won't come up; some primary sets can mix magenta or cyan, but even more importantly your subject matter might have some of one or both... which leaves you hugely confused if you refer back to your colour model which says they don't exist!

See if this thread helps a bit:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?50110-Applying-color-theory
The point I make in post #7 shouldn't be considered the take-home message, but it does help put these kinds of discussions into perspective.

If you want to delve into the subject more deeply there's no better place than the Handprint site as recommended in the above thread and in other threads.

The way I see it, is that you have to consider 2 colour wheels.

We really shouldn't, for multiple reasons. The most fundamental is that the colour wheel is already an abstraction (because colour has three dimensions, not just two) so it's not good to handicap it even further by intentionally leaving out more information.

Einion

 

[meaty_nosebleeds]

Good question. It's hard to know for sure - inertia/resistance to change, unwillingness to confront outmoded thinking, a "this is what I learned so it must be right" kind of attitude? In fairness though, there is lots that schools teach kids that's wrong, because the textbooks are wrong.
Einion

my thoughts on this happening is a combination of things. the first of the main two would be ignorance, i mean i wasn't aware of cyan and magenta until i started working with designs on computers etc. the second is because the old RBY system is a lot easier to teach to young children. this is partly because of all the years of using the old system, and also the three starting colours are nice and bright to attract their attention. i do hope that one day people will be able to let go of the old colour wheel, but to be honest, with so many people set minded on the old way, i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

 

[Einion]

i do hope that one day people will be able to let go of the old colour wheel, but to be honest, with so many people set minded on the old way, i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

I recall the same observation made about 10 years ago; situation doesn't seem much different to me now so I'd say that's a safe bet. Same deal (in spades) with the adherence to 'colour temperature' dogma, which sadly isn't losing much ground in the face of manifestly better ways of talking about colour.

Einion

 

[meaty_nosebleeds]

I recall the same observation made about 10 years ago; situation doesn't seem much different to me now so I'd say that's a safe bet. Same deal (in spades) with the adherence to 'colour temperature' dogma, which sadly isn't losing much ground in the face of manifestly better ways of talking about colour.

Einion

i guess people are now are unimagineitve when it comes to terms like that. it's been drilled into me so much that frankly i'm at a loss at what else to call it. what would you suggest?