clear varnish tragedy

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usurpator

New member
Hello,
I\'m brand new here, wonderful site.
After years on and off painting games workshop beasties I\'m now serious about painting and paint everyday.
I have lots of questions of course (bad news for you, guys :-D) but my most urgent one is this: I\'ve finished painting some greenskins a few days ago. I used inks on some of them. They were of course dry this morning (they dried 48 hours at the very least).
I just began brushing some clear varnish (I only work with citadel paints) one them and those with ink one them left traces of colour on the brush... contaminating the rest of the figurine.
I know I did something wrong but I don\'t know why. I can\'t spray varnish or anything as I have no space for it (and my landlord is an ogre), and I tried to brush as gently as possible.
All advice most most welcome!
Many thanks
Usurpator
ps: I also brush my basecoats for the above reasons... I wonder if I should use thinned paint or plain paint when I do that.... sorry, could not help asking that :-D
 
H

Highbulp Billy

New member
Welcome to CMON - the land where all your dreams come true (except the nice fluffy ones :twisted: )

In my experience inks never dry :( so I\'d be interested in any suggestions too (other than stop using inks :innocent: )

As for the brush-priming, I\'m in the same situation - no spce to spray. This does mean you get more choice on what colours to use though so that\'s a positive ;) Definitely thin the paint a bit or you risk losing the detail on the model. It means you probably have to use more than one coat but it\'s worth the effort.

Good luck :beer:
 
G

Gilvan Blight

New member
Be sure you are using primer to prime and not just paint. Primer is more then just a first layer of paint. It\'s forumlated to adhere to the miniature and ensure that your paint does not come/rub off.

That may or may not help with the ink issue though. I personally have never had this problem with inks, but I use sprey sealer.
 
U

usurpator

New member
primer not paint? thinned paint not ink?

primer not paint? thinned paint not ink?
Now I DO feel like a newbie :-D
So far i\'ve used chaos black as primer - straight out of the pot, as GW sells it in spray to \"prime\".
If you can advise me as to what is a primer and who makes a good one (not in spray!) I\'d be eternally grateful.
As for thinning down paint.... hmmm, I don\'t seem to get the knack for it :-c again advice most welcome!
Usurpator (super newbie :-D hey, this place is wonderful!!!)
 
No Such Agency

No Such Agency

New member
It\'s possible that Chaos Black spray is a primer formulation, but Chaos Black out of the pot is NOT. Vallejo makes a good brush-on acrylic primer, I\'ve also used Testor\'s Model Master grey acrylic primer to good effect (it might be available at any plastic model shop).

Sorry to hear about your ink woes... I rarely use them myself, they\'re just too hard to use properly.
 
V

vincegamer

Active member
I\'ve never had that problem. I don\'t often use inks by themselves but as a thinner for paint, or mixed with paint anyway.
Still, I do ink wash occasionally and I brush on varnish and haven\'t had that problem.
Perhaps you haven\'t thinned your varnish or are laying it on too heavily. Use it like another paint layer and it may help.
 
U

usurpator

New member
thinning varnish and primers

Aaaaaaah thinning varnish, I never asked myself any questions about THAT possibility!
Do you thin it the same as paints or more?

Thanks for the ref, Agency! I\'m going to look for these.

I MUST try thinning paints with inks, that sounds full of possibilities!

Usurpator
 
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matty1001

New member
Basic rule of painting: Thin all paints, water is fine, usually about 1:1 ratio for basecoats, even more if you are blending and highlighting. Its better to have 3 or 4 thin coats than 1 thick coat. As thick paint can dry unevenly and leave a chalky texture and build up on small details.
 
H

Highbulp Billy

New member
Originally posted by usurpator
Aaaaaaah thinning varnish, I never asked myself any questions about THAT possibility!
Do you thin it the same as paints or more?

Thanks for the ref, Agency! I\'m going to look for these.

I MUST try thinning paints with inks, that sounds full of possibilities!

Usurpator
Click to expand...
Using inks when thinning paints helps to keep a strong colour - I also use inks to thin base colours when making a shading wash usually adding a bit of brown or suitable dark ink and water. I very rarely use just inks any more except when I just want to do a \"quick job\".

As for paint vs primer - I used to use a spray primer in my former life (when I first started painting at school) but since I restarted the hobby I\'ve only used standard GW paints (watered slightly) and have had no real problems.
 
G

Gilvan Blight

New member
GW makes a brush on primer as well, Smelly Primer it\'s called (or at least was called, I haven\'t been in a GW store in 2 years).

Primer is a special formulation of paint created specicially as a first coat. It sticks to both plastic and metal better then paint as well as providing a smooth surface for the paint. The GW sprey Black and White are both Primers. Actually you used to be able to buy GW Black Primer and GW Chaos Black separately, I\'m pretty sure they only have the Chaos Black now.
 
J

JaPizzy

New member
The ink problem comes from the fact that ink isn\'t water proof, only water resistant. It seems that some varnish must have a part of them that breaks down ink. Vallejo brush on varnish seems not to do this, but gw brush on varnish is like a solvent for inks. I have that problem you\'re discussing before.

I usually mix a little medium into ink, like a little varnish mostly or glaze medium, this puts a binder into the ink that is a little tougher and can be worked with better. Varnish also helps the ink behave better too, reducing tide marks and helping it gather just a bit.

As for GWs brush on primer primer, they stopped producing it when they changed bottle types, along with some other of the great colors. Vallejo Game color brush on primer is almost identical, and it works great. It\'s only white though.

Reaper just recently released a brush on black primer that you could order, although I\'ve touched up spray black primer with regular paint and never had a problem. As was said, varnishing helps this problem be negated.

Some pros out there use a brush on enamel, such as humbrol, or testors as a brush on primer. You\'d have to use a poopy brush, and get some turps, but it\'s supposed to be good because enamles tend to be toughter than acrylics from what I\'ve read, but I don\'t know through experience though.
 
airhead

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
a link to a decent primer test:

click here

Inks have very little binder (the glue that holds the pigment particles to the mini) and are very pigment strong. Use inks in a very reduced condition (1:10 or even 1:20) and reduce them with a bit of glaze medium or airbrush medium to add binder.

A light coat of spray clear will set and seal the inks.
 
M

matty1001

New member
Tooshy recommended to me that an ink is watered down enough when you can brush it onto newspaper and still read the print clearly.
 
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jochemvh

New member
recently bought and tried the valejo brush-on primer and liked it alot. especially when using inks. not that i use those a lot, only for shading or if a color is too soft in my opinion. but the inks didn\'t bleed over the model
 
D

demonherald

New member
gw have a couple of primer paints coming out soon. which will halp you there.

Two things may have happened. As said the Inks generally dry waterproof not water resistant.

The second is did you use the same brush youpainted the ink on with ??? Inks are a real git for getting right into the ferrule (metal bit) and then leaking out sometimes days after depending on how much gets in.

tip time.
Thin ink mixes a lot before using and when painting on avoid pooling.

Don\'t get paint and definitely ink on the ferrule stick to the bristles that\'s what they\'re for.

thin varnish about 50/50 varnish and perfectly clean water test on a small area first.

apply carefully as you would pants. Takes a bit longer but saves damaging the hours already spent.

Other than that welcome to the site ...Leave your hope and will to live at the door and enjoy your painting.
 
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