CMON19- Need to read

Jamie

New member
Hi All,

This I think is an important must read and to be honest I am not happy with what has happened. The latest CMON competition has really turned into a bit of a joke. The sniping and vote padding has gone for the last 7 days at what I call an unappreciated level on this site. What I have an issue is about a week ago dramatic changes started when one miniature that had not been in the top 3 even though reasonably painted started to rise in score dramatically after about 80 votes had already been cast. However at the same time two other miniatures fell in score at the same time. Now I am not going to argue artist merits of individual pieces or even say that it was done by anybody in the competition. I honestly don’t know who or whom might have done this. All I know is at each night after the anti sniping program kicked in and the votes and score reset somebody went out of their way to lower the score of at least two competitors. To show what I mean this was my score as of 12:15 am PST just after the anti sniping takes place on 9.0 with 170 votes. Between then and the final competition results somebody/ some people snipe me down to 8.2 on 194 votes at competition end. The only way that could happen is that I have been given about 22 1’s. This has happened every night at about the same time for the last week. I think this is by far the worst sniping I have seen and the aim was basically to rig the competition.

IMG_6566.jpg


I have left this message until after the competition because I did not want to seem to be affecting the results. Also it will be interesting to see what happens tonight when the anti sniping program runs again and if it will affect the results. Overall all this has been a very unpleasant experience and it certainly feels like a personal attack. I just thought people should know what has actually occurred.

Regards,

Jamie.
 
Last edited:

Einion

New member
First off, sorry to hear about you being sniped. The problem of vote padding and wholesale sniping has been brought up in the forums a few times over the years. Normally it's just an irritation more than anything, but the seriousness of the basic issue is highlighted when it's done to influence the results of a competition.

Personally I think if there's proven to be no validity to the numbers sometimes it undermines the scores on everything, since anything might be affected even if only in a small way (a couple of tenths difference or something like that). And unfortunately there is absolute proof that the scores are manipulated by some individuals or by groups, whether everyone chooses to see this or not. And it's done regularly, not just for ego stroking but for nefarious reasons like to inflate the apparent popularity of commercial sculpts.

As you say there does appear to be anti-sniping software on the site. As far as I remember from previous discussions we've never gotten definitive word on how it works (for obvious reasons) but unfortunately it is possible to get around; I've done some tests to confirm this myself and you can significantly, and permanently, change the score on something without too much effort.

Einion
 

Jamie

New member
Normally it's just an irritation more than anything, but the seriousness of the basic issue is highlighted when it's done to influence the results of a competition.

Einion

The fact that a group or even an individual can effect a Competition is of great concern. Hence the reason I have brought it up. I doubt in future I would enter such a competition again in the format that exists at the moment and people need to know what might happen.

@ ScottRadom

I think something should be done and would agree with any idea that allows for closer monitoring of the competition. If they are going to run such events they need to be fair, otherwise what is the point.
 

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
Course, an easy solution to this would be to only count the votes from registered members. I'm assuming that it would be a lot harder for someone to snipe it since each member gets one vote (or are they averaged together? I forget), and I'm sure someone would notice a bunch of logins from a single IP. That might be something to consider.
 

Jamie

New member
Looks like I was right- back up to 9.1. So the sniping votes have been taken off again, not that it will change the final result now. Also one of my fellow competitors should have gotten third.
 

darklord

New member
I noticed one of the entries the other day (cant remember which one) had a difference of around 1.7 between registered and un-registered votes which seemed a high gap to me.
using registered votes only would help reduce vote manipulation surely - or is that too easy?
maybe we should have a section called coolmanipulationornot!!
 

Tagamoga

New member
I have got a question:

Is it hard to program, that when a mini is for competion, only signed members can vote ONCE for each mini? I would be better, or not?

Greetings, Taggi

edit: Sorry PegaZus, i have overread your comment. I think you are right.
 

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
I have got a question:

Is it hard to program, that when a mini is for competion, only signed members can vote ONCE for each mini? I would be better, or not?

Greetings, Taggi

edit: Sorry PegaZus, i have overread your comment. I think you are right.
Hahahahah!!!!!! And darklord's! NINJA'd ya both! MUHAHAHAHAH.....

Sorry. 'Scuse me. :clown:
 

Ija

New member
I've written to Borg that I'm not consent with results of voting and I've asked to recount results. I hope that they will do it.
I think, the problem will be solved when only registered users can vote only once.
 

Trevor

Brushlicker and Freak!
Quite a discrepancy between registered and not registered going on as well. Having the competitions based only on registered votes would go a long way to solving this.
 

Einion

New member
Course, an easy solution to this would be to only count the votes from registered members.
using registered votes only would help reduce vote manipulation surely - or is that too easy?
I think, the problem will be solved when only registered users can vote only once.
It's a start, but not a complete solution.

IP# monitoring would be a good idea - if that part of the site is coded to allow this - but it's also possible to get around that if someone is determined (and a sad git needless to say).

I'm assuming that it would be a lot harder for someone to snipe it since each member gets one vote (or are they averaged together? I forget)
Two votes, averaged.



We have investigated and addressed the problem for this competition.
Great, can we be told how or would that reveal too much?

Einion
 

darklord

New member
can we not just arm donna with some clamps and threaten her use on anyone that looks like they are cheating.
Actually some may like that too much - maybe judge Radom with his battleaxe of justice
 

Dedwrekka

New member
Actually if there's anti-cheating software that resets, reverts, or brings the scores to their actual level after a period of time, why not just take the scores from after the reset?
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
i find that often the registered votes are lower. you are a grumpy bunch of voters!!!
Tim; I doubt that is the fact that SOME of us are Grumpy, but that registered voters in general seem to be more honest in their opinions on votes and less inclined to PAD votes.
 

darklord

New member
Tim; I doubt that is the fact that SOME of us are Grumpy, but that registered voters in general seem to be more honest in their opinions on votes and less inclined to PAD votes.
I always thought it was also down to registered users been less wowed by it being a space marine or newest gw release - I always find my unregistered v registered is slightly higher (say .2) on GW but on other manufacturers the unregistered is often a fair bit lower
 
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