Commision rates?

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Hey, I was asked what I charge for commision rates. Uhmmmm Help!?!

I had never considered whatto tell people if they actually asked that question! I was asked about....

-Turnaround times
-Rates.

Can anyone help me? I would not be doing display work, as I will tell the guy straight out I don\'t think my work is fit to charge a display rate for currently.

Please, please can someone throw me some help here?

Thanks guys!
 
So... now you will be in the position to estimate how much your work is worth...:)...

Good luck... I hope you won´t have to work for 3 Dollar / Hour...
 

EArkham

Necromancer
Whatever you calc up for your rates and turnaround times, add more. Never tell a client your min time and value, because it\'s always, always going to take longer. Absolutely make sure it\'s worth your time to do, and if it isn\'t, don\'t do it.

But when it comes to commissions, I\'m a jaded bastard. ;)

Kep
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Originally posted by Matt Cexwish
So... now you will be in the position to estimate how much your work is worth...:)...

Good luck... I hope you won´t have to work for 3 Dollar / Hour...

Ha ha! Good one Matt! but like in other discussions I\'m in a happy position of this guy coming to me! And truthfully I don\'t know that I am gonna pull down much more than 3$/hrlol I just wanna try the experience out!

EAarkham- I was kinda figuring basing the cost around 1-2 hrs a fig for tabletop rank and file. That woule be from blister to sealed, which I think I can do in a batch painting style.
 

Mr Scream

New member
I charged a fiver for my 1st piece and then won my 1st demon the week after. Lets just say that the guy who bought it made more money from it than I did :s. Charge lots, and then charge more :p

Haha no seriously, you want people to know your good and not a rip off but if you charge to little then everyone will expect that price.
 
J
If you were to do things by the book, and by this I mean if you should include all the stuff you are entitled to in a regular job, there are more stuff to consider including.
Apart from the stuff already described your price should take into consideration:

- time to photograph the models if you are working over the www with a client.

- calculate savings for vacation (in Denmark employers are to save a set percentage of your monthly vage which is to be used by you to have days off for holidays).

- consider pension-savings. No-one pays your pension for your, unless you charge and deposit the money yourself.

- remember also to put in time for correspondance, time for buying paints, packing miniatures, driving to the post office and stuff. Money to buy paints, shipping costs, etcetera.

I doubt that a lot of us do all these things, but if you are ventureing into a profesional life as a mini-painter, these issues are important in the long run.
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Whoa...thanks guys. I guess my point is that if a guy can spend a 100 bucks to get a fig painted by Matt, Jakob, or anyone else, I can\'t look myself in the mirror and even charge for that. Also this is a sideline purely so I am not planning on doing this as my sole source of revenue. If I were to break it down into a formula, would it look somehting like this....

(Hrly rate) x 2hrs/fig (Rnf) plus 2hr for pics, post office time and consumables?

does that sound about right? If I take Matt\'s example of 3$/hr (yes I know he was joking) that would still work out to about 130 bucks for a 20 man warhammer unit. I know for a fact that I personally wouldn\'t pay that much in labor for my own work. And that\'s at 3 bucks and hour! Hmmm.

Appreciate the feedback. This place does rule a little bit. It\'s taken me quite a ways I feel since I started here. Much appreciated!
 

Jericho

Consummate Brushlicker
Yeah but you can\'t get a display mini from Jakob or others of his calibre for $100. Jakob\'s site says minimum £150, Marike\'s site says $400US minimum, etc. If you want the best, you pay for it. I charge somewhere in the middle, but nobody\'s come knocking on my door recently (not that I\'ve really tried to push my services either).

With rank and file, it\'s a tough thing to do on commisison. You either have to paint like a banshee to get a decent hourly rate, or only accept things that you really want to paint but don\'t need for your collection. Your painting skills are nothing to be ashamed of Scott, so don\'t be silly like Glyn (Zaphod) and accept completely ridiculous commission rates. He was kicking himself for a very long time (years), charging $5 each for a batch of D&D minis and I think $30 for a Warhammer Giant.
 

Baz

Member
When I was accepting commissions I would typically charge-

Assembly. Just a flat fee of around £10 depending on what it was £10 for a marine squad £500 for a metal Balrog (I hated that pile of ******!!!)
Standard troops-
£3 a mini for basic (basecoat, 1 highlight, 1 shade, no freehand sanded/flocked base)

£7 a mini for semi display standard ( 3 highlights/shading stages, detailed base and better fleshtones)

£10 a mini for display (up to 10 highlighting/shading stages, freehand work, scenic base etc.)

Characters-
same as above but
Basic £10
Semi display £25
Full display £50+ depending on size/ detail wanted.

Vehicles/large monsters round about £50+.

It all depends on how you paint. I had the advantage of being taught by several different people so I can paint in different styles to suit the workload and time alotted.

I would typically turn out a mini to \'Eavy metal standards in about 3-4 hours or an army to high tabletop in about 6.
Unfortunately the demand just wasn\'t there to allow me to paint full time and work kinda killed any prospect of keeping it up.
 

Jericho

Consummate Brushlicker
Sounds like you\'ve done a helluva lot of painting in your day Baz. The Magus in your profile looks good too, you should post more!
 

Aliengod3

Active member
I charge by the hour. For me I find that is the best way to dictate the quality of the paint job. I recently painted a unit for a commission, 16 models, and it took about 16 hours and the models looked like a nice tabletop quality. Very noticeable on a battlefield. For me an hour on each model gives a great result.

My pricing is:
$10/hour troops
$15/hour heros and calvary
$20/hour lords and monsters

No one who has commissioned me has compalined about the pricing because I try to paint real fast but with good blending and I have found a great way of doing this. Plus I am happy to negotiate prices because I am painting to make people have armies they are happy to show off. Money is an added bonus.
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Yeah, thanks Baz, but I am with Jericho, can we see more of your stuff? That\'s a kick ass mini!

But I like the structure to your fee\'s. It makes a lot of sense to me, from a customer\'s point of view. I have to get the \"Hourly rate\" that I have to pay so much attention to at work mindset out of my head and look at it more like the piecework it is I think!

edit-But I see AlienGod has thrown the hourly back in the mix! Do you estimate the time before hand like \"8-10 hrs on this piece\" and then bill based on the actual time, or do you estimate and quote?
 

AllTerrainMonkey

New member
Even if you\'re not painting solely for the money, Scott, you still need to figure out what your time is worth. True, most people don\'t want to pay $120 for a Warhammer unit; there\'s plenty of outfits they can send units like that off to in order to get a paint job at a couple cents/figure.

Some people get excited when they figure out there\'s a market for being paid to paint large units/armies, yet turn around days/weeks/months later when they realize they\'ve taken a huge chunk out of their life painting figures for relatively little to no compensation.

I tell a lot of people I teach this, over and over again, don\'t sell yourself short when it comes to commission rates. Since you\'re not doing it for cash, how would you rather see yourself? Missing out on work because your fees aren\'t rockbottom/sweatshop but enjoying painting, or having commission work come in yet being miserable at churning out huge groups of figures?

Another thing people don\'t take into account when starting out on commissions (I got this nugget from Jen I think) is that, along with everything else in life, you tend to do whatever it is you do the most; if you paint really fast, quick jobs, you\'ll train your eyes, hands, and brain to lock in on that level of detail. Some painters have an easy time knocking their brains into different gears, but others get stuck and have a difficult time swapping out. If you\'re not needing the cash, and aiming more towards improving your painting, I\'d take that into account when you\'re looking at doing large groups.

In the end it all comes down to what you enjoy and are good at, of course. There are people who can churn out unit paintjobs faster than I can clean a moldline and they don\'t get burnt out, get decent rates, and enjoy it :D. Then, there are others who break into a sweat if they have five unpainted figures in front of them. Take the time to figure out how much of your painting time you want to devote to working for others, and then how much that time is worth to ya.
 

AllTerrainMonkey

New member
Ooo, quick reply to what you just wrote, Scott; I estimate time, then quote. If it\'s a really simple piece and there\'s not much freehand/conversion/etc asked for I\'ll give a much lower quote than if it\'s a SM Captain with freehand all over and a crazy display base.

Also, take whatever estimate of time you think you can do it in, and add a couple of hours. Until you start actually tracking your hours to where you know how long it takes you to do things almost everyone gives estimates on the low side instead of the high.
 

Baz

Member
Yep. I really need to get things finished and posted lol!
One tip I would give to anyone who is painting for $$$ is to keep a record of all minis like this-

24/02/2009
GW Beastman Lord (2002)Cat no. 45335/13324
(PIC)
For- (client)
Cleanup assembly time - 1hr
painting time- 5hrs@Semi display

Basecoat- bestial Brown
1st highlight - 90%BB + 10% Vermin Brown....etc

This helps if someone wants an exact copy of a mini you\'ve done before and speeds up the painting process for choosing colour schemes. the time taken helps to calculate how much to charge. Don\'t write the amount charged in your log as prices can (and do) go up.
 

squidders

New member
What sort of standard does the (potential) customer want and what mini(s) do they want painting?

With any work for customers, be sure to get the scope of the work final before starting. If they want sculpting and freehand find out in advance. Anything that\'s going to increase your time ask about... do they want the mini protected or just painted? mounted on standard bases or show plinths?

For a first commission, I would be inclined to do it at \"cost\" as such, ie paint the mini for free and cover reasonable expenses, material, paint and a little time. That\'s just me though and I would make it clear to the customer that this is an experiment and that as/if demand goes up, so will prices.

As Matt said though... it\'s your baby, do what\'s right for you and the customer and you won\'t go far wrong. Good luck.
 

BarstoolProphet

New member
Most of my commission work to date has been Privateer Press pieces, and them mostly for friends and people I game with, so I\'ve charged them relatively little for my work. But I don\'t do it for the money. I do it because I enjoy the painting, and it lets me paint pieces that I wouldn\'t otherwise buy to do myself (well, sometimes).

Recently, I\'ve started being hired to do Warhammer pieces by other folk, and my rates for these pieces tend to be considerably higher, because they\'re the characters/heroes/generals or whatever, and the people hiring me are wanting the best work I can produce.

Now, I\'m no Demon winner, but at my LGS, I have been lauded as \'the best\' by all who have hired me, and that\'s still a VERY local market. I\'m sure there\'s other Torontonians that can make my work look amateurish, and I say so to my newer clients. But that\'s beside the point. They\'re hiring me, not those other people.

My current commission is Lord something-or-other on a Carnosaur, and I\'m charging $75 for it. And the customer thinks that\'s a good deal, and has seen a lot of my other works.

That\'s probably still under-selling myself, but as above... it\'s a piece I probably wouldn\'t buy for myself, and it looks like it\'ll be fun to paint.

And that\'s my primary motivation for it, anyway.
 
This was really not ment offensive, Scott... Sorry if it appeared to be ment like that...

If I were you I would charge him about 50 Dollar for a good standard on a Single Miniature...
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Originally posted by Matt Cexwish
This was really not ment offensive, Scott... Sorry if it appeared to be ment like that...

If I were you I would charge him about 50 Dollar for a good standard on a Single Miniature...

Not offensive at all! I appreciate your advice and comments on all aspects of painting, and I just thought it was funny given the other thread going about rates and such for pre-painted pieces going up for auction!

Sad thing is, after I calculated what it might takeme to paint a unit I thought the 3$/hr might have been gouging the customer!

The guy who eMailed me hasn\'t returned my eMail (patience I need to develop.... he only messaged me this morning) so I am not sure what he was after, or if it was just a general inquiry.
 
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