Controversial subject matter...
- Thread starter supervike
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AinuLainour
New member
6.4? Give me a break. The dude (Hitler) was an asshole, but I bet a Mao mini would rate based entirely on paintjob. The western world has reason to hate either, but Hitler actually affected us while Mao reportedly killed several million of his own people. Sorry for straying a little off-topic..
Anyhow, it\'s not like the painter is a supporter of Hitler. The idea of a dead baby with blood flooding from between it\'s lips is just as bad IMO, but both were painted extremely well and that\'s how they should be rated.
Anyhow, it\'s not like the painter is a supporter of Hitler. The idea of a dead baby with blood flooding from between it\'s lips is just as bad IMO, but both were painted extremely well and that\'s how they should be rated.
Sukigod
Member
Wow. I\'m surprised at the responses - pretty vehement. Do Christians vote 1\'s for peoples miniatures of satan/the devil/demons? I don\'t think so. Nor for scenes or dioramas of wanton destruction, xenos or otherwise.
A bit hypocritical and narrow minded in my book. I know I\'ll be mobbed for that point of view but it is what it is.
A bit hypocritical and narrow minded in my book. I know I\'ll be mobbed for that point of view but it is what it is.
johnboyjjb
Active member
Denying history doesn\'t make it go away. Why somebody would choose to paint this, maybe as part of a diorama?
PegaZus
Stealth Freak
Here, here!
As to why? Maybe he likes to paint demons.
Seriously, I worry a bit about educational systems teaching about the causes and issues surrounding the rise of Hitler and WW2. I hear little tidbits here and there, and see reports of people that seem completely clueless about the whole time period. We do NOT want this period to go down the memory hole and have to go through all that again. So if that means a painted figure every so often, so be it.
We paint rapists, murderers, extreme violence...we live lives in countries that teach us racism...and yet we complain when something like this comes up....
this is a perfect example of why he was able to do what he did...because people are easy to manipulate and control if you teach them the right way
he was a genius for what he was capable of doing, and i respect every ounce of that...in my opinion he did what he did because he like many, allowed his thoughts and opinions overrule facts...and this lead him to make the ultimate error which has created the vision that he is the ultimate evil, when he was not the first to act in such a way
we dont think twice about how the emperor of mankind in warhammer 40k, is the most racist and manipulative figure...he controls his minions with the vision he is god(the ultimate power) and he commands them to purge the universe of xenos(those who are different in appearence) and heretics(those who do not follow his ways)
we dont think twice about how our schools teach us in a waay that makes us despise certain people...or how the media takes advantage of their capabilities to again bias our views
its nto until the evil we know comes up do we see anything
the sad thing is hes not the only one...what is the evil we do not know?
Starks
this is a perfect example of why he was able to do what he did...because people are easy to manipulate and control if you teach them the right way
he was a genius for what he was capable of doing, and i respect every ounce of that...in my opinion he did what he did because he like many, allowed his thoughts and opinions overrule facts...and this lead him to make the ultimate error which has created the vision that he is the ultimate evil, when he was not the first to act in such a way
we dont think twice about how the emperor of mankind in warhammer 40k, is the most racist and manipulative figure...he controls his minions with the vision he is god(the ultimate power) and he commands them to purge the universe of xenos(those who are different in appearence) and heretics(those who do not follow his ways)
we dont think twice about how our schools teach us in a waay that makes us despise certain people...or how the media takes advantage of their capabilities to again bias our views
its nto until the evil we know comes up do we see anything
the sad thing is hes not the only one...what is the evil we do not know?
Starks
Controversial? I don\'t think so. People have to grow up and understand that their desire NOT to talk, draw, paint or even SEE something doesn\'t make it disappear. Simple logic is a good medicine against hypocrisy.
I wonder, all those, who rated contents, as opposed to execution, do they also habitually rate down image of ANY German officer or soldier on the site? Yes or no? If yes, then may I ask, if I happen to be a Vietnamese, should I rate down mini of any American soldier I happen to see on site? Or should I rate down any crusader if I happened to be a Muslim?
Absurd? No?
I am sure, there a number of people who might find incredibly sensual miniature from Pegaso to be extremely offensive.
So by whose stereotypes do you propose to judge this or another mini?
darthfoley
Active member
It\'s a nice paintjob. Not the most appealing choice of subject certainly, but from a historical viewpoint he\'s certainly a significant figure.
Queen of Credits
Member
The Adolf Hitler miniature
Here are my thoughts on the miniature specifically, and on the subject in general.
I posted: \"Excellent presentation of the sculpt. Very life like, which may ironically be what troubles some people. History is not changed by censoring it or pretending a demon did not live that actually did. Rather, by remembering history, we learn what works and what does not; what is good that we want to repeat, what is bad that we want never to allow happen again. Freedom to express--in words and art--that which joys us and that which horrifies us, is precious. It is a right not granted universally yet on our globe, but we know is a powerful force that can change the world.
Vivez toujours le courage de dire ce que vous pensez et exprimez avec les peintures et la sculpture ça que vous trouvez mériter être considéré.\"
Anybody can paint a fantasy demon. It\'s the real demons of the world that need to be brought to light, exposed, discussed, learned from, and--yes--remembered.
Here are my thoughts on the miniature specifically, and on the subject in general.
I posted: \"Excellent presentation of the sculpt. Very life like, which may ironically be what troubles some people. History is not changed by censoring it or pretending a demon did not live that actually did. Rather, by remembering history, we learn what works and what does not; what is good that we want to repeat, what is bad that we want never to allow happen again. Freedom to express--in words and art--that which joys us and that which horrifies us, is precious. It is a right not granted universally yet on our globe, but we know is a powerful force that can change the world.
Vivez toujours le courage de dire ce que vous pensez et exprimez avec les peintures et la sculpture ça que vous trouvez mériter être considéré.\"
Anybody can paint a fantasy demon. It\'s the real demons of the world that need to be brought to light, exposed, discussed, learned from, and--yes--remembered.
tidoco2222
Active member
I really don\'t see the problem, History happened that can never be denied. The miniature is historically accurate and the painting of it is very good, there are alot of minis out there that can be classed as controversial. Models of Roman Emperors for example could be construed as controversial for the effect they had on humanity for the period of their reign.
Models exist of characters like Jack The Ripper again a controversial subject to some.
I think to deny history is wrong, the fact that these people existed is never going to go away nor what they were responsible for if we are able to put up pictures of Heroes from history with no come back then surely the opposite should be true.
I wonder if this mini had been in caricature form would the response be as controversial.
Models exist of characters like Jack The Ripper again a controversial subject to some.
I think to deny history is wrong, the fact that these people existed is never going to go away nor what they were responsible for if we are able to put up pictures of Heroes from history with no come back then surely the opposite should be true.
I wonder if this mini had been in caricature form would the response be as controversial.
I have no qualms about this miniature being on Coolminiornot.
In my personal opinion it is not a \"cool mini\", merely a depiction of a Despised and Reviled person from Recent History.
I can understand the polarised viewpoint of some of the commentators, part of my family heritage is Jewish, but I have no problem with the depiction of any other German soldier.
I would ask the commentators on this miniature a question:
\"While you revile this miniature and the man it represents, how many of you actively oppose the continuation of Fascism in your own countries or take the time to Commemorate the International Holocaust Memorial day?\"
Becsue unless we remember what this man, and the actions those who followed him, resulted in, we could easily follow similar paths.
In my personal opinion it is not a \"cool mini\", merely a depiction of a Despised and Reviled person from Recent History.
I can understand the polarised viewpoint of some of the commentators, part of my family heritage is Jewish, but I have no problem with the depiction of any other German soldier.
I would ask the commentators on this miniature a question:
\"While you revile this miniature and the man it represents, how many of you actively oppose the continuation of Fascism in your own countries or take the time to Commemorate the International Holocaust Memorial day?\"
Becsue unless we remember what this man, and the actions those who followed him, resulted in, we could easily follow similar paths.
Queen of Credits
Member
...and furthermore...
Billy the Kid was a murderer many times over.
Blackbeard and his ild were thieves on the high seas who robbed their victims of hard earned fortunes then sent them to watery deaths never to be seen by the families at home faraway.
Vampires are popular painting topics because they are infamous for not merely draining the life from the victims, but condeming them to a state of damnation.
Ancient Romans and those who led them, Nero, the Caesars, ...we paint them, line them up in mass, and re-create their bloodshed and attempts to exterminate other \'lesser\' ethnic groups.
If we do not favor gaming with Romans, then we choose the \'more moral\' Vikings who plundered their neighbors\' lands or perhaps the Aztecs who are also remembered for the kindly ways.
The entire point of Games Workshop Warhammer Fantasy battles between Bretonnia and the Empire is to re-create the carnage between France and England that lasted for somewhere over 500 years and to glorify the Dark Ages.
We paint dragons, vampires, demons, harlots, thieves, and think nothing of the traits expressed by the sculpts, the splatters of blood we add, the scuffed clothing representing hardship or separation from family during a pointless war between two despots.
To critique a work of art\'s execution as a \"1\" simply because one disagrees with the subject matter is not any more or less \"obscene\" than the subject matter expressed.
What is ugly, is censorship, refusal to allow differing viewpoints, incongruent expectations (translation: hypocrisy), and the belief that we should fear information, fear alternative opinions, fear allowing alternative beliefs to co-exist, and fear unfettered expression in print, word or art.
That kind of thinking is what got us the Adolf Hitlers of the world in the first place.
Billy the Kid was a murderer many times over.
Blackbeard and his ild were thieves on the high seas who robbed their victims of hard earned fortunes then sent them to watery deaths never to be seen by the families at home faraway.
Vampires are popular painting topics because they are infamous for not merely draining the life from the victims, but condeming them to a state of damnation.
Ancient Romans and those who led them, Nero, the Caesars, ...we paint them, line them up in mass, and re-create their bloodshed and attempts to exterminate other \'lesser\' ethnic groups.
If we do not favor gaming with Romans, then we choose the \'more moral\' Vikings who plundered their neighbors\' lands or perhaps the Aztecs who are also remembered for the kindly ways.
The entire point of Games Workshop Warhammer Fantasy battles between Bretonnia and the Empire is to re-create the carnage between France and England that lasted for somewhere over 500 years and to glorify the Dark Ages.
We paint dragons, vampires, demons, harlots, thieves, and think nothing of the traits expressed by the sculpts, the splatters of blood we add, the scuffed clothing representing hardship or separation from family during a pointless war between two despots.
To critique a work of art\'s execution as a \"1\" simply because one disagrees with the subject matter is not any more or less \"obscene\" than the subject matter expressed.
What is ugly, is censorship, refusal to allow differing viewpoints, incongruent expectations (translation: hypocrisy), and the belief that we should fear information, fear alternative opinions, fear allowing alternative beliefs to co-exist, and fear unfettered expression in print, word or art.
That kind of thinking is what got us the Adolf Hitlers of the world in the first place.
Legacy Account
Active member
Nice paintjob. Shit figure. Couldn\'t care less about the subject matter. The Frenchies are over reacting...
Amazon warrior
New member
What Queen of Credits said.
War Griffon
New member
Have to agree here, there seems to be a lot of over reaction to the figure/who it represents.
Yes he is a monster from history and it should not be forgotten but there are plenty of other monsters out there that do not get the same treatment. Maybe because they are not as well published but if you read into the history books they are there.
I wonder if I painted up one of the old Citadel/GW 40K human bombs from the penal legion would I get a similar response from the people of the rest of the world???
To end: Crap figure and not a bad paint job. I have no objection to it being on this site after all there are parts of our history that should not be forgotten even if some countries collaborated/supported him during the war.
Highbulp Billy
New member
Am I the only one who looked at that mini and thought \"You must be this tall or higher to ride the roller coaster\"?
Seriously, whichever way you look at it this is an important historical character who has been portrayed in films, TV and art many times over and will continue to be so as long as we need to remember what horrors he brought to the world. My wife\'s grandfather was an Auschwitz survivor and I\'ve seen up close the permanent effects that the Nazis had on people and countries. In the end, we\'re looking at a painted figure of a man, not a tribute to him. I see no reason to judge this submission on anything other than it\'s paintjob and the rathy dodgy pose he\'s striking.
It would be interesting to hear how others justify their reaction though...
Seriously, whichever way you look at it this is an important historical character who has been portrayed in films, TV and art many times over and will continue to be so as long as we need to remember what horrors he brought to the world. My wife\'s grandfather was an Auschwitz survivor and I\'ve seen up close the permanent effects that the Nazis had on people and countries. In the end, we\'re looking at a painted figure of a man, not a tribute to him. I see no reason to judge this submission on anything other than it\'s paintjob and the rathy dodgy pose he\'s striking.
It would be interesting to hear how others justify their reaction though...
No Such Agency
New member
I like it... well, from an artistic perspective at least. The pose is exaggerated, but along with the face and ridiculously pompous uniform it captures a certain personality. The personality of an evil little man who through his hatred and lust for power managed to become one of the most hated and despised figures in history.
