Controversial topic - You have been warned
- Thread starter treide
- Start date
farseerlum
New member
having babies is a dangerous business.
lawyers shouldn\'t take away the right of women to kill themselves.
lawyers shouldn\'t take away the right of women to kill themselves.
Starnge how every comenttator on this thread expressing their views is MALE!
I thought that the days when one person could dictate the rights of anothers body ended when slavery was abolished. Or are we once again demoting women to the staus of a man\'s property.
I thought that the days when one person could dictate the rights of anothers body ended when slavery was abolished. Or are we once again demoting women to the staus of a man\'s property.
Infidel Castro
New member
In nature, animals can self-terminate if there\'s a need. If food is low and a newborn can\'t be sustained, some animals have that mechanism to switch the foetus off (I\'m sure there\'s a technical term).
Abortion at any stage has to be a personal choice. It\'s all well and good waving sticks under the noses of those who abort, but I know the emotional scars people carry as a result of abortion. That doesn\'t justify it necessarily, it just means I know folk who agonised over the choice, felt they had to take it and that it still eats them up. Women have a huge burden, so cut them a little slack.
Abortion at any stage has to be a personal choice. It\'s all well and good waving sticks under the noses of those who abort, but I know the emotional scars people carry as a result of abortion. That doesn\'t justify it necessarily, it just means I know folk who agonised over the choice, felt they had to take it and that it still eats them up. Women have a huge burden, so cut them a little slack.
Infidel Castro
New member
Calm down dear, it\'s the male/female ratio what does it!
Fizl
Secret Crocodile
As far as I can see the argument is over the type of abortion at that stage.
My belief here is that it should remain a personal choice, and that the medics need to do the best thing they can to help the mother, as they are the focus here.
Abortion is always going to be a hard choice, no matter how blase people can appear to be/feel.
Shaz
My belief here is that it should remain a personal choice, and that the medics need to do the best thing they can to help the mother, as they are the focus here.
Abortion is always going to be a hard choice, no matter how blase people can appear to be/feel.
Shaz
So you don\'t feel that is OK for someone to decide to terminate a pregnancy complicated by severe malformation or genetic abnormalities?
I completely agree that abortion as means of contraception for those who did not utilize standard contraception is not appropriate. I don\'t know the statistics, but I suspect this mostly occurs in teens or young adults who aren\'t well educated in birth control options.
wiccanpony
Official Freak Bar Witch
Another hot button topic......... being a woman I have to add my penny. First I’m pro-choice down to my toe nails. No sex before marriage ... forget it, not in my creed. :cussing:Also if women had it easier to afford and get contraception the need of \"Partial Birth\" abortions would drop to mostly those with medical reasons (the life or health of the mother).
Better sex education is also a key factor ..give people the knowledge to make better judgments, I can’t believe how uninformed our teens are on basic sex!!!
I think abortion, which I agree with, does take its toll on the mother, so using it as a birth control would not be a regular thing, but people do make mistakes, and spending the next 60/70/80 years paying for it, would not be a good idea, as a murderer only gets 5 in the UK if your lucky ???
Aborting for health reasons, of course must be OK.
I think each case must be weighed up on, if the mother/father can or are willing to take care of the baby, as if they dont, even more harm will occour, in the future.
I do know of one case of accidental conception, where the father wanted the baby, but the mother could not go through her third child birth, and a miscarriage occoured, it still cuts deep, very deep.
Aborting for health reasons, of course must be OK.
I think each case must be weighed up on, if the mother/father can or are willing to take care of the baby, as if they dont, even more harm will occour, in the future.
I do know of one case of accidental conception, where the father wanted the baby, but the mother could not go through her third child birth, and a miscarriage occoured, it still cuts deep, very deep.
johnboyjjb
Active member
Having a wife that is pregnant with twins I can tell you where I stand with information and with my personal opinion.
Opinion:
My understanding of the partial birth abortion was the labor was induced, the baby was born, and the skull was crushed to terminate life. The viability of the child is not an issue (at that time, whether the child could live outside the womb on its own is too late). I am not thinking any form of abortion is acceptable, except early term when the mother has damaged herself or the child, or when the child has a disease which is terminal and has no cure. I have a hard time believing that that isn\'t a life in there when I can see it smiling and waving.
Info:
The doctors offered 3 times over a period of six weeks to give the tests. On the last opportunity we were notified that they would no longer be able to abort if we declined. And while down syndrome is difficult to deal with my sister-in-law has downs and are lives would be completely different.
Opinion:
My understanding of the partial birth abortion was the labor was induced, the baby was born, and the skull was crushed to terminate life. The viability of the child is not an issue (at that time, whether the child could live outside the womb on its own is too late). I am not thinking any form of abortion is acceptable, except early term when the mother has damaged herself or the child, or when the child has a disease which is terminal and has no cure. I have a hard time believing that that isn\'t a life in there when I can see it smiling and waving.
Info:
The doctors offered 3 times over a period of six weeks to give the tests. On the last opportunity we were notified that they would no longer be able to abort if we declined. And while down syndrome is difficult to deal with my sister-in-law has downs and are lives would be completely different.
Congratulations on your pregnancy. Best of luck to you and your wife.
The Down\'s syndrome issue is a tough one. Certainly individuals with Down\'s syndrome can lead full lives, but the parents have to commit to caring for an individual that will never be able to live completely independently. It is particularly difficult when the parents become elderly and the care needs of their adult child with Down\'s syndrome are more than they can handle, or worse the parents pass on and there is no one to care for the adult with Down\'s syndrome. I personally think it is appropriate to consider pregnancy termination if the parents don\'t think they can make that care commitment.
Oh, I\'m pro-choice as well, but as with any other choices in life there are generally time constrictions on when you can make the choice.Originally posted by wiccanpony
While I think it is up to the parents to make those types of decisions before they decide to have a child.
IE: My Wife \'s family has a history of heart problems and Diabetes, we have made the choice not to have children.
Not getting pregnant and then destroying the fetus\'s that aren\'t perfect.
Talion
New member
I don\'t think that\'s a fair response too treidi, you can\'t predict if a child would have Down\'s Syndrome.
I haven\'t got kids at the moment, but we\'ve made the decision that if we find out our child has Down\'s syndrome we\'ll abort it........no one has the right to say that\'s wrong, I personally think bringing a terminaly disabled child into the world is wrong.......people\'s choices.
Actually, I\'m sure that you CAN detect genetic disabilities (such as Downs) before the baby is born. A needle is used to draw fluid from the amniotic sac, containing the baby\'s (non-living) cells. These can be Karyotyped to see the status of their genes - defects such as Downs are easily detected.
Kaczy
Kaczy
@Talion - Let me clarify, as my point did not seem to come through clearly. I think if a pregnant couple find out that they have a fetus with Down\'s syndrome or some other serious chromosomal abnormality after testing such as amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling, they should have the right to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy.
The big issue I have with this law is that if such an issue came up in the middle of second trimester, the options to terminate the pregnancy safely are now more limited.
The big issue I have with this law is that if such an issue came up in the middle of second trimester, the options to terminate the pregnancy safely are now more limited.
Talion
New member
triede I was agreeing with you.......answering ED anser about if you don\'t want to care for the child then you shouldn\'t think about having one.
I know it can be detected when pregnant, but you can\'t predict it before, so saying if you don\'t want to care for it, if it\'s disabled, then don\'t think about having one.......is the wrong attitude
I know it can be detected when pregnant, but you can\'t predict it before, so saying if you don\'t want to care for it, if it\'s disabled, then don\'t think about having one.......is the wrong attitude
wiccanpony
Official Freak Bar Witch
Quite a few Genetic conditions can be tested for and the majority in the first trimester.
