Controversial topic - You have been warned

[supervike]

Originally posted by treide
I\'m not sure what supervike\'s point is about the situations where a mother\'s life is at risk being \"few and far between\". I don\'t think he meant to say that it should be OK to infringe upon the personal freedoms of the few that are affected since they are a minority, but I will let him clarify what he meant.

Thats the true genius of my argument. I get to condemn it on one hand, while saying, \'it\'s your choice\' on the other.

My point isn\'t to \'infringe on personal\' rights at all. In those cases, where it is medically necessary to chop up the baby into little bits, and then vacuum the womb clean, I am all for it.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by GreenOne
The mother should feel for her baby, if shes ready to abort one minute before birth, which is not very likely, so be it, better late then never. I don\'t see how possibly anyone could decide for her.

Wouldn\'t it be better and safer for the mother to wait until its born, and then kill it? Whats the difference?

Originally posted by GreenOne

If we use the term abortion, instead of killing, and murder and innocent child the topic would stay in reality. Someone who works in an abortion clinic kills babies all year round your telling me, what an horrible job:no:

That is my point of many of my posts on this thread. If we call it abortion or a \'medical procedure\' it becomes and acceptable thing...like having a wart removed, or having a tumor irradiated. It is killing.

Calling a shit shoveller a \'fecal matter relocationer\' doesn\'t change what it is.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by treide
A state appointed advocate made all the medical decisions pertaining to the child\'s care, and the state also paid the health care costs, which were in the hundreds of thousands of dollars in the several months of the child\'s life.

And we pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to keep rapists and murderers alive. Maybe we need to justify post birth abortion.
I\'d feel better using my taxes to keep innocents alive than keeping those proven to be detrimental to our society.

 

[treide]

Thanks for the clarification, supervike. I was fairly sure you weren\'t in favor of \"oppression of the few\", as you seem to be a diplomatic voice of reason on these forums (duh, guess that is why you are a moderator).

You make another excellent point - let\'s call it what it is. Abortion is is a medical term encompassing a number of procedures designed to end a fetus\'s life, regardless of whether the fetus might have survived \"on its own\". One of the concerns I have about this \"partial birth\" abortion ban is that the alternative procedure offered is just as brutal (if not more) to the fetus, and also carries a much higher risk to the mother\'s future fertility options. I welcome any opinions about this issue.

@Evil Dave - I personally agree that convicted serious offenders should not enjoy the same rights and privileges as law abiding citizens, but you get into the sticky issue of falsely convicted individuals or those who commit crimes as a result of mental health issues. I would welcome a discussion on this, but it deserves its own thread

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by treide
@Evil Dave - I personally agree that convicted serious offenders should not enjoy the same rights and privileges as law abiding citizens, but you get into the sticky issue of falsely convicted individuals or those who commit crimes as a result of mental health issues. I would welcome a discussion on this, but it deserves its own thread

See, but it is related in a way.
All abortions have committed no crimes.
They are all innocent, and we don\'t care a bit about killing them, but we will fight to keep the scum of the earth alive.

 

[GreenOne]

@Supervike: Eupheumisms are as bad as overstatement. Let\'s call it \'removal of a human foetus\', or even \' termination of developping lifeform\', my position doesn\'t change.
Where neither talking about \'children\' or \'murder\', as far as my understanding of both words go.

It\'s a little cold blooded to say it would be better right after, than just before, but yeah, it\'s accurate. Most of the time, a mother would never let anyone hurt her baby, let alone hurting it herself, in such a dramatical situation, wouldn\'t it be a better thing that the baby not live?
I think so.

THe attachment to life is something that concern the living, if there is any pure spirit untainted by human experience, would it struggle with it\'s non-incarnation, would it feel anger ? If no such thing exist, then, an unborn baby is just a lump of cell.

There will be plenty of other children, life will always find it\'s way, if you love life so much, make your own children, love some that you know... don\'t feel angry for those that are not to be :~(
Leave emotions for the (non)parents, it can be a hard decision, haven\'t they suffered enough already ?

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by treide
as you seem to be a diplomatic voice of reason on these forums

I do? Damn...I must try harder...lol

Actually...this thread has interested me greatly. This topic is one that is all but shunned for discussion in most places. I have to admit that when I first saw the thread, I cringed, but it has turned out to be very informative...

It is one of the few times I have haven\'t had to temper some of my responses...and it felt pretty good.

 

[vincegamer]

I commend the posters here for remaining civil. That\'s probably why you\'ve stuck with it.
See, we are mini painters. None of us is so deeply involved in the issue that our emotions overwhelm our judgment. Or, if we are, we know to keep it down in a place where people are actually more interested in how you paint eyes.

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by vincegamer
I commend the posters here for remaining civil. That\'s probably why you\'ve stuck with it.
See, we are mini painters. None of us is so deeply involved in the issue that our emotions overwhelm our judgment. Or, if we are, we know to keep it down in a place where people are actually more interested in how you paint eyes.

Or whether Jesus washes His hands.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by GreenOne
Where neither talking about \'children\' or \'murder\', as far as my understanding of both words go.

Granted, but hopefully you\'ll understand that many people do think \"children\" and \"murder\" is exactly what we are talking about.

 

[treide]

Originally posted by treide

You make another excellent point - let\'s call it what it is. Abortion is is a medical term encompassing a number of procedures designed to end a fetus\'s life, regardless of whether the fetus might have survived \"on its own\". One of the concerns I have about this \"partial birth\" abortion ban is that the alternative procedure offered is just as brutal (if not more) to the fetus, and also carries a much higher risk to the mother\'s future fertility options. I welcome any opinions about this issue.

I would like to know what people think about this issue. It has been suggested that the successful ban on \"partial birth\" abortion is just a stepping stone to a complete abortion ban. If a procedure can be outlawed because it is \"too brutal\", then any abortion technique is fair game. Let\'s face it, any procedure that terminates a fetal life is at the very least tragic to some, and obviously abhorrent to others.

 

[matty1001]

I think it comes down to personal circumstances aswell. E.g. if Laura fell pregnant (god forbid) now, then I would back an abortion, I simply havn\'t the time, money or space, or...experience (is that the word I am looking for?)

But say she fell pregnant in 5 year, even if it was unplanned I would choose to keep him/her, as circumstances (hopefully) would be more comfortable and manageble.

If a woman want\'s to have an abortion then let her, IMO it shouldn\'t be the descision of a doctor, or higher power.

 

[GreenOne]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by GreenOne
Where neither talking about \'children\' or \'murder\', as far as my understanding of both words go.

Granted, but hopefully you\'ll understand that many people do think \"children\" and \"murder\" is exactly what we are talking about.

Well, obviously.
But it\'s not the case.

Now, how about we go hunt some babies :twisted:

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by matty1001
I think it comes down to personal circumstances aswell. E.g. if Laura fell pregnant (god forbid) now, then I would back an abortion, I simply havn\'t the time, money or space, or...experience (is that the word I am looking for?)

But say she fell pregnant in 5 year, even if it was unplanned I would choose to keep him/her, as circumstances (hopefully) would be more comfortable and manageble.

If a woman want\'s to have an abortion then let her, IMO it shouldn\'t be the descision of a doctor, or higher power.

That\'s OK, but this is not the scenario.

The Scenario is Laura gets pregnant, and decides to keep it.
You and she go to the doctor have the sonograms. You see the little fingers, the sex of the child, the very recognizable human fetus.
And at 5 months she decides she doesn\'t want it. The doctor fills out \"mental stress\" as the reason for the abortion, and you don\'t have any say about it.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by GreenOne


Now, how about we go hunt some babies :twisted:

I\'ve got my pitchfork and baby killing galoshes on!:twisted::twisted:

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by matty1001
I think it comes down to personal circumstances aswell. E.g. if Laura fell pregnant (god forbid) now, then I would back an abortion, I simply havn\'t the time, money or space, or...experience (is that the word I am looking for?)

But say she fell pregnant in 5 year, even if it was unplanned I would choose to keep him/her, as circumstances (hopefully) would be more comfortable and manageble.

If a woman want\'s to have an abortion then let her, IMO it shouldn\'t be the descision of a doctor, or higher power.

That\'s OK, but this is not the scenario.

The Scenario is Laura gets pregnant, and decides to keep it.
You and she go to the doctor have the sonograms. You see the little fingers, the sex of the child, the very recognizable human fetus.
And at 5 months she decides she doesn\'t want it. The doctor fills out \"mental stress\" as the reason for the abortion, and you don\'t have any say about it.

Ah right, well im not going to waffle on...as I honestly havn\'t got an answer for that.

Babies taste like chicken.
\"Im crazy Eddie, I put baby\'s on spikes. Wanna rack a baby\" - the good old Eddie Izzard, in one of his more surreal moments.

 

[johnboyjjb]

A modest proposal

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by freakinacage
there are enough unwanted kids in the world as it is, why bring another in?

Then why kill the newest one? Can\'t we just kill off the unwanted 10 year olds? They\'ve had plenty of time to be wanted.

Here is the answer.

 

[farseerlum]

hi! i have a problem. my developing life form is causing me mental stress and financial hardship. i was intially happy with the news and have looked after it dilagintly. but as it grew larger the reality of childrearing has caused me to rethink my willingness to raise a child.

the final straw came when my doctor expalined to me that it will have dark colored hair. i have since resolved to end the life form before it\'s too late.

my question to the forum is.. should i inform his teacher that he won\'t be coming to school anymore?

 

[Aidan K]

Originally posted by johnboyjjb

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by freakinacage
there are enough unwanted kids in the world as it is, why bring another in?

Then why kill the newest one? Can\'t we just kill off the unwanted 10 year olds? They\'ve had plenty of time to be wanted.

Here is the answer.

Mmmmmmmm tasty.

 

[Talion]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
The Scenario is Laura gets pregnant, and decides to keep it.
You and she go to the doctor have the sonograms. You see the little fingers, the sex of the child, the very recognizable human fetus.
And at 5 months she decides she doesn\'t want it. The doctor fills out \"mental stress\" as the reason for the abortion, and you don\'t have any say about it.

So the father would have no say at all???

If it\'s life threatening to the mother then fair enough. If not it should be a joint decision. If they both decide that\'s what they want then.......yep let them have the abortion.