Crystal brush

uglybug

New member
Much better photography this year, thank you. One problem that I ran into was when I was browsing the photos, I would click on the picture but when I hit the back button on the browser all the photos seemed to have gotten reshuffled on that page. So I there is a chance that I am missing the chance to see some images. And when I hit next at the end of page six I kept seeing a bunch that I saw already too, so not sure how many entries there really are.

One other thing, I haven't voted yet but I find myself being biased. I rufuse to vote for a GW model or forgeworld. Not sure if it's because they have their own painting competition or because people on this site seem to over score anything space marine and 40k. Any thoughts?
 

ischa

New member
i seem to be amazed this year aswell on the low level of painting in this competition. who even brings most of the stuff to a comp? pictures however, super improvement. even better than some gds. like the fact that we get detail shots of the bigger entrys=)
 

skraaal

New member
i seem to be amazed this year aswell on the low level of painting in this competition. who even brings most of the stuff to a comp? pictures however, super improvement. even better than some gds. like the fact that we get detail shots of the bigger entrys=)

I do like the fact that photo quality has gone up and that we got detailed shots of the entries. There were some stunning entries, albeit only a few of them, as well as some good entries and some not so good ones. Also, I was surprised to see so few entries, I expected a few more pages at least - given the prize and profile this event is meant to have.
 

uglybug

New member
10 ball surprised the voting link didn't come up when you got on the site anyway here you go.
http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbgallery/index

Ischa I did see some really good pieces but I am not sure if I should discuss anything in particular while the judging is open. I don't want to appear to be drumming up support for someone I know. By the way I don't know anyone. But the when my page got directed to the first mini, an ork 40k I thought your kidding me right?
I think what happens is you get some real good artist that go to the con for this contest and then you get a bunch of the gamers that are there that say heck I will throw some of my guys in.
 

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
didnt realise there was a new sculpting section for big on offs, my own fault for not reading the small print lol.
 

AndyG

Active member
Got to say I agree one or two unbelievably good pieces but OMG there's a lot of crap. FFS this is crystal brush not a local GW store comp!
 

Harry

New member
I got to the end and thought "this can't be all of them, can it?" I think I only saw two entries for the sculpting category...

The pictures were pretty good, but there were a lot of squad shots with no closeups and those were pretty much impossible to see any detail at all on. Also, there seemed to be a somewhat arbitrary distinction between models that got multiple views and others that got only one.

It's a shame to see a lot of the table quality minis being submitted. It's hard to judge the really good stuff objectively when there's a bunch of poor-quality entries in-between. At the very least there should be a first cut that happens before we have to vote.
 

lono

New member
I think that it's unfair to pick on the people who have submitted models to the comp that don't really cut it in terms of quality. The process of entering a comp is something that everyone approaches from a different level and these pieces may be the best models those people have produced by a long way, so fair play to them. Also, even the best painters have to start somewhere.

There are some very nice looking entries scattered amongst the categories. Going through, best in each cat for me (leaving out historical because it's so barren) are probably:

Sci-fi single (surprisingly weak category) - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/204
Sci-fi squad - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/257
Sci-fi vehicle - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/249
Fantasy/steampunk single (strong category) - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/248 (I like http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/236 too but the base is a bit too much)
Fantasy/steampunk squad - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/194 (http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/149 is very cool but some of the painting's a bit sloppy)
Fantasy/steampunk vehicle or monster - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/221
54mm and above - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/189
Diorama (strong category) - http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/179

My favourites are Kalypso and Gea "the beginning"
 

marcineczek0

New member
You guys are funny... lol
So what? The entries should be pre aproved befor put to voting and the ones that are not at least GD quality should be burned and the owner slaped in the face??? Don't worry it was taken care of by more photos and detail shots in favor of the "better" entries. The "ugly" minis have just one photo... so I would not call it a fair competition.
Very unprofesional...
 

ischa

New member
no, but there should be at least a demand that the base has been made, and isnt just black, straight out the package before the entry is entered. i´m angered when people cant even be bothered to do those basic things when entering the same competition as people who spent 100+ hours on their entries. by the way, that alice in wonderland thing was my favourite, absolutely beautiful!
 

lono

New member
I can't agree with you there. It's only fair to let all people enter, but at the same time, it's perfectly reasonable for the people involved in the competition to make a judgement call (based on their experience) about which models warrant extra images when they are working within a restricted timeframe.

I've looked at and voted on every single submission and without exception, the ones with just one image are models that wouldn't make a final cut at a painting competition. Anyone with any kind of critical capacity for models can make this assessment.

If there was a choice between an extra view of every single model that only has one, or just one more image of Kalypso, my judgement as a worker in the comp or as the photographer would be for Kalypso. This is a painting comp yes, but that decision isn't going to sway the final result and to think so is just not logical.

Also, don't forget that the final result is only based on the CMoN scores to a small degree.
 

Harry

New member
I can't agree with you there. It's only fair to let all people enter, but at the same time, it's perfectly reasonable for the people involved in the competition to make a judgement call (based on their experience) about which models warrant extra images when they are working within a restricted timeframe.
The problem I have with this approach is that there still seems to be some arbitrary "enforcement" of this.

This this entry for example: http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/228 Multiple views and a closeup of only the dogs, without a closeup of the ogre
Compared to this: http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/151 Seems like everything is painted to a high standard, but without a closeup it's impossible to tell
Compared to this: http://crystalbrush.coolminiornot.com/cbartwork/index/id/257 Closeups of all the models in the squad

Also, don't forget that the final result is only based on the CMoN scores to a small degree.
I though CMON score was 50% of the result?
 

marcineczek0

New member
I can't agree with you there. It's only fair to let all people enter, but at the same time, it's perfectly reasonable for the people involved in the competition to make a judgement call (based on their experience) about which models warrant extra images when they are working within a restricted timeframe.
I don't agree... the people involved (photographer for once) shouldn't judge the entries at this stage.
Expirience??? some minis are clearly in a wrong category... And I make better photos with my 4mp Canon A520

I've looked at and voted on every single submission and without exception, the ones with just one image are models that wouldn't make a final cut at a painting competition. Anyone with any kind of critical capacity for models can make this assessment.
That's great that you have voted... but you voted based on biased photos. How would you know the level of painting on the FW Warhound if all you can see is a one photo made from 50" ???

Also, don't forget that the final result is only based on the CMoN scores to a small degree.


"Internet voting will be conducted at CoolMiniOrNot.com and CrystalBrush.com and will comprise 50% of the final score of each entry. The other 50% will comprise of a panel of judges selected from industry professionals and AdeptiCon staff." - 50% of votes come from online voting... Great go vote on biased photos.
 

lono

New member
I don't class it as 'judging' though, it's assessing and responding logically. It's the same reason that every mini isn't photographed at Golden Demon. People with a critical capacity and understanding of miniature painting and competition pick out entries they predict will do well and photograph them. It's due to time constraints. Here people have picked out the better models and focused more on them.

I'm not directly involved in the process, so can only speculate on the exact criteria they are applying, but as I said before, for me they have picked out all the great entries and really given them the focus that they deserve. Perhaps there are the odd one or two entries in squads that were good and didn't quite get the same amount of images as others as Harry mentioned. but knowing how much work it would have been to do all these images, I am capable to let that go. It's never going to be a perfect process, but this is about as good as I can imagine it to be without a truly titanic amount of work involved.

I would imagine the category the models are in is down to the competitors decision. The photos are good and from looking at your gallery, if those are the photos you are talking about, they are simply not better. Did you look at the magnified versions of the Crystal Brush entries?

You ask how can I know the level of painting on the Warhound. I'm going to be frank about this to illustrate my opinion, and I hope if the entrant sees what I say they understand why I'm commenting on their painting and mean nothing bad from it. It's very clear from what is shown in that one photograph that although the paint job is competent it is totally unspectacular. The photograph isn't a close up, but it shows enough, and is of a good enough quality to see that the finish is fairly basic on every part of the model. I have absolutely no doubt about that. Perhaps it's down to experience, but looking at the models that only have a single image, I can gauge what I think of them and feel confident about that judgement. Believe me, I'm a stickler for photos that show me the standard of the model properly. I feel these do that for the whole lot I voted on.

This is my opinion, and you are totally in your rights to disagree completely, but I am happy I've been given a good impression of the standard of all the entries from these pictures.

I've not voted on biased photos, I've voted on decent photos. Sorry, but that's the simple crux of the matter for me.
 

Zarovich

New member
no, but there should be at least a demand that the base has been made, and isnt just black, straight out the package before the entry is entered. i´m angered when people cant even be bothered to do those basic things when entering the same competition as people who spent 100+ hours on their entries. by the way, that alice in wonderland thing was my favourite, absolutely beautiful!

When looking at the rules and judging criteria, I read that you're supposed to judge the miniature, and not the base. In some cases, the bases are more attractive than the figures themselves, but when I went to vote, I ignored the bases, as I believed they weren't what the contest was about. If I thought bases, other than obviously the dioramas, were part of the competition, I would have voted differently. I'm not looking for an argument here, just throwing in my interpretation. Also, I know one of the painters. I know his work, and it is highly detailed. If you could see the details, you would probably vote differently - especially in the squads. He didn't warrant any close-ups, though, I guess.
 

marcineczek0

New member
Golden Demon doesn't have an online voting with 50% of votes based on photos alone. When those photos are not fair for all entries how can you be objective. You might be expierienced enough to judge a mini just by one photo but from my expirience a lot of CMoN users shouldn't be allowed to vote at all (for example " I give this mini a 5 because it goes on eBay" voters).

"time constraints"??? "titanic amount of work involved"??? they have a whole day to photograph minis... When you have a prize of 10 000 dollars you could hire one more photographer if one is not efficient enough. Their job consist of taking a mini, sticking a number on it, take a photo and put it in display case... I wouldn't call it a hard work.


By the way what message does it send to all people who just start into the world of painting competitions... don't even try, you will be handicaped from the start.
I'm not sure why can't you see that I'm not asking for much... just to make this competition fair to all who enter. When one entry gets one photo and the other eleven there is something wrong with the competition. There should be strict rules for photographing miniatures...
 

kittykat23uk

New member
Some of the comments about the quality of submissions are really harsh in my opinion.

I can't see how to vote, am I missing something?
 

ischa

New member
well. all i can say is that i take it as an insult when people who obviously just put something together and rush the basics expect the same treatment as someone who spent up to a year working on their model. on the other hand, the whole type of judging that goes down in crystal brush is faulty, internet votes are easy to get biased, or unfair. especially when it´s a competition about money. in this situation, all entrys should obviously get equally treated. prefer the judging type when a jury of people who know how to judge decide. about the bases, they are a part of the mini, and should obviously be done for competitions, claiming anything else is ridiculous. about comments on quality, as long as they arent aimed at any mini in patricular, i dont see the problem?
 
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