Dark Age figs: where\'s the luv?

[JonG]

Where to get \'em in the UK?

I\'m a massive fan of Brom\'s artwork - owning both of his artbooks - and the Dark Age minis seem like a marriage made in heaven (hell?) to me.

Echoing some earlier comments about availability though, I\'ve not seen them retailing here in the UK anywhere. If anyone knows where I could get some I\'d be keen to pick up a few.

- Jon

 

[Pr0fane]

My 2 cents

Good day everybody.

I couldn\'t just lurk for this thread. I believe I\'m coming at this discussion from a different perspective than most of you are saying. I was not particularly a fan of Brom\'s work. But, I\'m extremely interested in the game and the figs. Not just because I\'m one of the Demo Team members. I see this as an excellent alternative to the \'big guyz\', and one that is showing every sign of having staying power.

I\'m going to give my perspective on why you\'re not seeing more painted figs. Although I am working hard on getting my figs painted, I confess to suffering from \'Eavy Metal-itis. I am somewhat reluctant to have my less-than-stellar efforts on display. Not to say they won\'t be posted for all to see once I\'m done, but I\'m probably spending an inordinate amount of time getting to a level I am comfortable showing off.

Some conjecture that I agree with from other discussions regarding the figs. A lot of the sculpts are very true to the original concept art. Brom\'s imagery is very much pose-oriented and this is not what tabletop gamers want. They want dynacism and motion. Perhaps this is another reason why you\'re not seeing table top calibre submissions.

All that to say, I do love the sculpts and will strive to get some table top calibre submissions posted for all to view.

 

[angelo]

Hmmm. I have read through the thread, and I did a little research of my own. I went to a few miniature sites and some Brom fansites and did a little cut and pasting. I can totally understand if you don\'t like the genre, but if you think these miniatures are not dead on Brom\'s work, then you are probably smoking something fierce :moon: Here is just a few quick examples that I came up with. Darkage miniature on the left and Brom\'s ORIGINAL ARTWORK on the right ???

 

[nvstudios]

GW might not be bringing back the squats, but Dark Ages sure did. Look at the height and width compared to the original drawings. The minis are squatty and wider. I\'ll also agree, though, that the non-dynamicness really makes them inappropriate for minis but the sculpts do not match the drawings entirely.

 

[PT_Racel]

Originally posted by nvstudios
GW might not be bringing back the squats, but Dark Ages sure did. Look at the height and width compared to the original drawings. The minis are squatty and wider. I\'ll also agree, though, that the non-dynamicness really makes them inappropriate for minis but the sculpts do not match the drawings entirely.

First, the lack of action in many of BROM\'s paintings was a major issue with DA at the beginning. We made the mistake of making too many of the early miniatures look just like the artwork. This made them come out rather lifeless, so we have changed to make the minitures look like the originals, but with more dramatic poses.

Second, on the issue of details, it is IMPOSSIBLE in metal to recreate the delicate details that BROM can add with paint. They are impossible to cast and have to be altered for production reasons. There is also the human factor brought by each sculptor. Not everyone sees the same thing in the original art and there is always an element of modification and change when one human being tries to copy something created by another. This is normal, and happens all over in this industry, just as was mentioned before about GW. Its unfair to hold us to a standard that no one else in the industry even tries to meet.

Third, if I squint really hard, I can sort of see what you mean about them being squat and too thick. Then I remember miniature lines like Celtos and think you are crazy to think are minis look squat. The father was actually done by a Confrontation artist and is very skinny for a miniature, so maybe you need to see a few up close before making such statements.

Sorry if I got a little heated on this, but this was a constructive thread, where our line was being discussed openly and honestly, but to call our stuff squats is rather low and very much unjustified, but I guess everyone is allowed their own opinion.

Jeff Racel

(Oh, NVStudio - off the subject, since you guys work for Hundred Kingdoms which is sponsoring Testor\'s new line of Fantasy paints, are you using them. I wondered if they were still so thin you can airbrush with them out of the bottle.)

 

[goatman]

@NVStudios A good question here would be, if you have ever sculpted anything yourself. If not, it´s hard to understand, that it isn´t ever possible to transfer an image for complete 100% to a sculptjob. Broms characters are really thin, or lets say skinny in most cases. The detail on those artworks is really small compared to the characters size. Now there is the problem, that the details have to be added to the mini to let it look like the artwork. But it´s not possible to get them sculpted in the proportions of the pic so they have to be a bit bigger. Don´t get me wrong, a good sculptor like Werner or Stefan should be able to get it sculpted, but then you have unpaintable details. Some of the Confrontation-miniatures have a lot of those \"unpaintable\" details and unless the painter has some practize it´s hard to paint. So a good compromiss between lot of details and paintable details would be the best.

So the Forsaken were the first miniatures from DA and i think they lack a bit of detail. Very nice miniatures, but if not painted by someone like Jen they look boring. They need more attention to look good.
The Skarrd and Dragyri are totally different to this. They are perfectly detailed (not overdetailed) and they have dramatic poses. And to get a circle to the first words .... they are as near to the concept work, as possible

 

[nvstudios]

I\'m only pointing out the height vs weight, I understand entirely guys. And the answer is yes, we\'ve sculpted. And yes, it\'s hard. But if you look at the pictures with the idea of Child (models) and Adult (paintings) it\'s really kind of obvious. But I don\'t mean to diss them at all, my personal dislike is my own thing.

Hmm... as far as Hundred Kingdoms goes, the owner Mr. Rick Jensen tried to stiff us for $500, then tried to turn my own wife against me, and we both stopped working for him. Enough said on that subject. But we haven\'t used the Testor\'s stuff.

On the other hand, the people who picked up the Ral Partha line, known as \"Ironwind Metals\" (pretty much after we decided we were done with being jerked around) handed us their complete line of acrylic paints. Though it\'s not as deep in variety as some lines, the containers are reasonably well designed and the paint isn\'t as watery as Vallejo. We use them in conjunction with other brands and the results are great.

But principally, we use Apple Barrel from Wal-Mart, taking into account the importance of waxing down paint ourselves and saving a small fortune. After all, what is Vallejo but paint with more medium?

 

[Cenobyte]

i don\'t understand what\'s going on here. can\'t see any constructive criticism in the last few posts, only flaming. and sorry, but that\'s not the stuff anyone want\'s to see in open discussion boards.
i am not going to criticise single persons or posts, but some people should think about how hard it actually is to build up an entire company, produce minis (from scultping to mass production), pay for getting them painted an then to be forced to read such posts here.

if someone doesn\'t like the style of the minis... okay, fine... don\'t buy them.
i DO actually like them and would be happy to get some of them, and along with that several other people which i talked to over here.

i sent a mail to the demoteam adress and i hope it was helpfull. if you need any more help with this, i could make a complete list of germanys most frequented fantasy stores selling minis and send it over.

sorry for my english. some lines may sound weird...

 

[The Artisans Edge]

This is getting a little nasty. No real reason for it either. It might just be best if we all said \"to each his own\" and leave it at that.

I took a second look at the miniatures and I have second thoughts about several of them. I like the Warwind in particular. Not so S&M looking. The Golab is pretty interesting too.

 

[Cenobyte]

you\'re right... sorry i got a little overheated....

 

[PT_Racel]

I am very sorry for any flaming. Especially sorry for any offense to NVstudios.

Please accept my Apology.

Jeff Racel
Dark Age Games

 

[PT_Racel]

There was a request for a retailer in the UK. Please check with http://www.artemisblacks.co.uk/ . they are great to work with and should be able to help you. The new miniatures, such as the female Dragyri will be out next month.

Jeff Racel
Dark Age Games

 

[PT_Racel]

Originally posted by nvstudios
But principally, we use Apple Barrel from Wal-Mart, taking into account the importance of waxing down paint ourselves and saving a small fortune. After all, what is Vallejo but paint with more medium?

Wow, I am constantly amazed at the number of people that use Apple Barrel and similar paint. I use them for making terrain ( my area of interest more than minis), but never dreamed so many very talented folks were using them. It is surprising that so many of you get such good results from them. I am sure the other miniature paint companies hate to see these comments. :bouncy:

Jeff Racel
Dark Age Games

 

[languin]

You know i was going to tell angelo there that other than the father who was dead on with his representation (you should get that sculptor more often!)i still did not see reflection of the art just similarities.

Now to unpaintable areas that just means its hard to paint man never have impossible in your volcabulary.

Now as for casting.i know that its plain hard to cast spindly figs..greenstuff just doesnt do well in the molding process.
But i heard someone using the greens to make resin casts with lower temp rubbers and using the hardier resin casts as the masters for the vulcanized molds. That way you could get your sculpts to be taller and thinneer.
I hope all this criticism is appreciated and taken with a grain of salt as well.

 

[nvstudios]

yeah, especially since if they were sculpted to proportion they\'d look like the old partha stuff LOL

And by the way, I didn\'t take anything personally and I hope no one else did either. This, to me, is a discussion, not a flame fest.

On to the tangent subject - I\'m not kidding about paints here people. Apple Barrel paint (or any Wal-Mart paint) is just as good as GW or Ironwind. The bottles are better and the paint is about 20% of the cost.

Vallejo, despite all it\'s claims about being more finely ground and specifically designed for miniatures, shows in experimentation to simply be thinned down more than other paints. This can be easily done with Future Floor Wax on your own. However, it\'s very convenient I would suppose because you could make paint recipes (3 parts sky blue, 1 part brown oxide). And because most novice painters (and don\'t take that offensively pros) do not know how to water stuff down properly and tend to use paint way too thickly.

We are switching our GW stuff over to Game Color because of the striking similariy in color, but the main reason is the containers NOT the quality of paint.

Often people, myself included, are easily fooled when a claim like \"specially designed for painters\" is applied to a product. Because the vast majority of painters are inexperienced and amateurs (really, how many of us know every color in more than three lines?), it\'s to be expected that they\'d go for the product with the biggest, boldest claims. I would too.... especially since when we were first starting out, we used TESTOR\'S for models LOL.

In conclusion, when all is said and done, the use of Future Floor Wax can turn Apple Barrel into Vallejo, albeit on a pallete and you have to do it yourself.

Longwinded much?

 

[vincegamer]

On the tangential matter I want to disagree with NVstudios.
I have been using Apple Barrel paints for years and just recently got some Vallejo. They are not the same.
First of all, my Vallejos are nowhere near watery, and give far better coverage than any other paint I\'ve used.
I will still use Apple Barel because they are cheap and accessible and have a very good range, but they make only a small percent of the paint on any of my minis now (except possibly the red and yellow ranges).
My problem with AB is that some of the paints separate way too easily and they don\'t remix well. I have some I use regularly and love, and others that I\'ve had to throw out. My problem with AB is consistency, not as in the fluidity of paint but in consistency of quality from one pot to another.

 

[nvstudios]

I\'d definitely agree with that... but the first bottle of Vallejo we got had hard chunks in it and gave sloppy coverage as well. On the other hand, the Game Color we\'ve picked up recently seems to work just fine.

It may just be the case that our resident artist simply knows how to revitalize paint... most of what I actually touch has already been Vallejo\'fied with future floor wax to a wonderful consistency by Kali.

But that really was my point, I think that you can turn Apple Barrel so it works as well as anything else. But you\'ve got to know exactly at what point it\'s watered down correctly. Opinion only of course

 

[Chrispy]

Vallejos are a tricky subject with me.. As I have about 40 now (and a few game colors I\'ve yet to use) I\'ve noticed that the dark grays don\'t like me, no matter how I shake them up. They come out glossy and thin. Perhaps I should actually squirt some out and use it, but I only do that for large quantities.. Oh well, I guess that\'s my laziness for yas......

Speaking of dark grays, I wondered if anyone else noticed JH didn\'t get the contrast down like in many of the actual art peicies.. To me, it\'s a must for the dark leather/light skin but that\'s her artistic liscense I guess, along with the fact those subtle shades wouldn\'t show up well.

And once again my propensity for stirring up trouble on the forums rises!

 

[Cenobyte]

yeah... damn you, heretic!

 

[Chrispy]

Quick Question for Dark Age Guys:

Are there going to be more versions released? It makes little sense for there to only be 2 versions of Buzzblades (For example) when the pack size is 6 at the least. Converting 3 to look like 6, maybe.. but 12 requires some serious converting and/or ful sculpting. I like the stuff you\'ve got so far, I just wish there was more of it... Especially since the games are divided up into 1000 pts sections..