not sure I really managed to say what I meant. I know that jacob is one of the best painters out there and he deserves is trophys. I\'m just saying that now that got were he is ( on pure skill ), i think is work as a harder time placing, like for exemple if the judges are having trouble choosing between two mini, the name jacob will just add a little somthing to the balance. But I am by no mean saying that I can do better or that he dosn\'t desereve is awards, I really love what he does and I have to agree that he is one of the best painters out there.
Dear GD UK Atendees: Look Out
- Thread starter FredrickvonCarstein
- Start date
SJB
New member
But why would they do that.?
Hypothesis: Tie break time. Jakob versus an unknown. Assume that the two entries are extremely close in quality and it comes to decision time. Why on earth would they choose Jakob\'s simply because it\'s his? Considering all the people going on about GD conspiricies (unfounded) and the negative press involved then surely they\'d rather have the unknown as it\'d be someone new, keeping the competition fresh.
More likely scenario. The judges, given that there isn\'t a lot of time on the day to judge thousands of entries pick the minis that they think best fit the demon winning criteria without wasting time second guessing their decisions because they haven\'t \'let a famous name through\'.
Could it not just be that Jakob, Matt, Joe and all the other regular demon winners achieve success because they are the people who are producing the best entries within the criteria of the competition?
Certainly there is also a logic to why these people win over and over. It\'s not because the judges are on their side, it\'s because they know how to impress the judges. They know what they look for.
People who win lots of demons do so because they know what is required to win lots of demons.
Want to beat them? Go for it. Produce better entries than them. Not easy as they have the experience edge of how to win but it\'s not impossible to beat them. It\'s just hard.
Steve B
Hypothesis: Tie break time. Jakob versus an unknown. Assume that the two entries are extremely close in quality and it comes to decision time. Why on earth would they choose Jakob\'s simply because it\'s his? Considering all the people going on about GD conspiricies (unfounded) and the negative press involved then surely they\'d rather have the unknown as it\'d be someone new, keeping the competition fresh.
More likely scenario. The judges, given that there isn\'t a lot of time on the day to judge thousands of entries pick the minis that they think best fit the demon winning criteria without wasting time second guessing their decisions because they haven\'t \'let a famous name through\'.
Could it not just be that Jakob, Matt, Joe and all the other regular demon winners achieve success because they are the people who are producing the best entries within the criteria of the competition?
Certainly there is also a logic to why these people win over and over. It\'s not because the judges are on their side, it\'s because they know how to impress the judges. They know what they look for.
People who win lots of demons do so because they know what is required to win lots of demons.
Want to beat them? Go for it. Produce better entries than them. Not easy as they have the experience edge of how to win but it\'s not impossible to beat them. It\'s just hard.
Steve B
J
Jakob Nielsen
Guest
Hi,
Just got back from a convention and saw the thread!
I am not going to comment on the discussion about the judging being bias.
The model was planned for last years GD but I didn\'t have the time to paint it, so I just brought it to show when meeting the other painters (strangely we always meet but only a few of us bring models to look at and discuss except those we leave in the competition). Then, at some point in Spring there was a discussion (on Dakka I think) about custodes and I thought I would share my WIP model.
Eventually, GD closed on me this year and being far busier than ever before I just thought I would finish last year\'s piece to have something to bring. And because it had been seen before I decided to do it in public on my website instead of all the usual secrecy. So no strategies there, I am afraid.
Btw, I don\'t expect it to take Gold. Placing would be nice (although you can never be certain that you will), but I actually see this model more like a Bronze or silver rather than as Gold. Or maybe I will just be beaten by some new top painters appearing out of nowhere - now that would actually be a fantastic GD.
btw, I still haven\'t decided about the robe being finished or not… more WIPs later next week.
Best Regards,
JRN
Just got back from a convention and saw the thread!
I am not going to comment on the discussion about the judging being bias.
The model was planned for last years GD but I didn\'t have the time to paint it, so I just brought it to show when meeting the other painters (strangely we always meet but only a few of us bring models to look at and discuss except those we leave in the competition). Then, at some point in Spring there was a discussion (on Dakka I think) about custodes and I thought I would share my WIP model.
Eventually, GD closed on me this year and being far busier than ever before I just thought I would finish last year\'s piece to have something to bring. And because it had been seen before I decided to do it in public on my website instead of all the usual secrecy. So no strategies there, I am afraid.
Btw, I don\'t expect it to take Gold. Placing would be nice (although you can never be certain that you will), but I actually see this model more like a Bronze or silver rather than as Gold. Or maybe I will just be beaten by some new top painters appearing out of nowhere - now that would actually be a fantastic GD.
btw, I still haven\'t decided about the robe being finished or not… more WIPs later next week.
Best Regards,
JRN
ok peeps with all this said and...ehhm...said
,i want to appologise to everybody who thinks i\'m an ass*ole now...,there maybe some stuff i said that didn\'t fall that well with some of you,but honestly i\'m not out to make jakob or anybody look bad i\'m just trying to figure out how to finally win one myself,after making first cut twice i think it should be about time...,but as said before you never no,so again my appologies to all,oh and tammy ,ik wist niet dat je kwaad werd ik val niemand aan dus please,don\'t bite my head of !
,i want to appologise to everybody who thinks i\'m an ass*ole now...,there maybe some stuff i said that didn\'t fall that well with some of you,but honestly i\'m not out to make jakob or anybody look bad i\'m just trying to figure out how to finally win one myself,after making first cut twice i think it should be about time...,but as said before you never no,so again my appologies to all,oh and tammy ,ik wist niet dat je kwaad werd ik val niemand aan dus please,don\'t bite my head of !
SJB
New member
Forrix, it\'s not aimed at you personally at all. It\'s just the whole \'Golden Demon politics\' thing is an old annoyance and it winds me up. It\'s all rather an insult to the people who put in so much effort to win these things.
Unfortunately there aren\'t easy answers to how to win a demon. It\'s a decent achievement to even make the first cut, especially in the UK where there are so many entries. Believe me, I won 2 golds in my first year (1997) and I\'ve had a good few entries after that that not only didn\'t win demons, but didn\'t even make the first cut. It happens.
The jump from making first cut to winning a demon is a big one though. It requires a lot of the painter and it is, unfortunately, not a case of a natural progression of making the cut to winning a demon. You may be improving year by year but the contest is also getting tougher. Those two Gold winning entries of mine from 1997 would NOT get them nowadays. They would probably make the cut but I doubt they\'d even scrape a bronze.
All you can do is produce the best work that you can and pay attention to what kind of thing impresses the judges (looking for patterns in what wins over the years). And you have to have a thick skin. From 1997 to 2001 I did progressively worse year by year and I failed to take home any trophies in 2000 and 2001. I worked like absolute hell the year after to get myself back to winning and worked even harder the year after. The Bronzes and Silvers from the last two years mean lots more to me than the golds from the early years. It\'s because I know how much harder I had to work for them.
This year will be scary. All my eggs are in one basket so to speak. I am placing all my faith in one entry (I have one other but it\'s not very special in comparison to it\'s likely competition). I am in a good position to come away with nothing at all again this year. A step backward but I know that my entry will be my best ever. Gotta have a thick skin.
I can tell you that one hurdle you don\'t need to pass is that you will be looked over in favour of known painters. Take some solace in that.
And best of luck. As I say, it\'s tough. But it can be done so keep plugging away.
Steve B
Unfortunately there aren\'t easy answers to how to win a demon. It\'s a decent achievement to even make the first cut, especially in the UK where there are so many entries. Believe me, I won 2 golds in my first year (1997) and I\'ve had a good few entries after that that not only didn\'t win demons, but didn\'t even make the first cut. It happens.
The jump from making first cut to winning a demon is a big one though. It requires a lot of the painter and it is, unfortunately, not a case of a natural progression of making the cut to winning a demon. You may be improving year by year but the contest is also getting tougher. Those two Gold winning entries of mine from 1997 would NOT get them nowadays. They would probably make the cut but I doubt they\'d even scrape a bronze.
All you can do is produce the best work that you can and pay attention to what kind of thing impresses the judges (looking for patterns in what wins over the years). And you have to have a thick skin. From 1997 to 2001 I did progressively worse year by year and I failed to take home any trophies in 2000 and 2001. I worked like absolute hell the year after to get myself back to winning and worked even harder the year after. The Bronzes and Silvers from the last two years mean lots more to me than the golds from the early years. It\'s because I know how much harder I had to work for them.
This year will be scary. All my eggs are in one basket so to speak. I am placing all my faith in one entry (I have one other but it\'s not very special in comparison to it\'s likely competition). I am in a good position to come away with nothing at all again this year. A step backward but I know that my entry will be my best ever. Gotta have a thick skin.
I can tell you that one hurdle you don\'t need to pass is that you will be looked over in favour of known painters. Take some solace in that.
And best of luck. As I say, it\'s tough. But it can be done so keep plugging away.
Steve B
thanks for the kind words,when i first came to gamesday(2001)i made first cut and really didn\'t expect to do anything of importence at all(well to me atleast!),it really motivated me to improve and to paint constantly(when not working or going to college!),the year after that i did my best job uptill then,and again made the cut but didn\'t win ,so confusion...,should i go on and try again,or call it a day and leave it behind me...but it is afterall gamesday and i can\'t imagine a year without it since i\'ve been going there!,so i tried again,that year(2003),they dropped,literely DROPPED!(as in on the ground),my model ,so that was that,i was totally fed up with the hole thing!. ,but i have improved a lot since last year so i hope to really win something this year...a bronze would be awsome for me!,thanks greets ...ryan
,so that was that,i was totally fed up with the hole thing!. ,but i have improved a lot since last year so i hope to really win something this year...a bronze would be awsome for me!,thanks greets ...ryan
Orb
procrastinator
I just got back from the GD equivelent of the historical miniature world; Euro Militaire in Folkestone. I entered 3 pieces and unfortunately didn\'t place; I was down for about 5 minutes, but then simply inspired to try harder, and besides, I\'d had a superb time, meeting painters and sculptors from around the world, drinking, sharing techniques, discussing models - one or two have work on here - that\'s the best part about these shows!
Don\'t give it up just cos you don\'t get the holy grail! GD is notoriously hard as there\'s only 1st, 2nd 3rd.....consider making the cut a \"highly commended\" and keep at it!
Rob
Don\'t give it up just cos you don\'t get the holy grail! GD is notoriously hard as there\'s only 1st, 2nd 3rd.....consider making the cut a \"highly commended\" and keep at it!
Rob
that\'s the general idea,i\'m just starting to get a bit intimidated by all these great artists entering year after year ,sure the deserve it cause the are simply the best ones out of the hole bunch of people who enter in the event,and i respect them a great deal for making fresh and new models all the time,blowing everybody\'s minds time and again,but ...there\'\'s no two ways around it...i want to win this year and i know it always changes and you never no for sure but i will try my verry best and more, to make a verry high standerd model and hopefully grab a bronze!,i\'ll be blown away if i dogreets
greetsanyway...are all of you guys and gals going to gamesday...,and entering golden demon i suppose,and how do you see yourselfs doing,cause this year you can enter again right tammy?,well anyway it\'l be a cool gd this year with the french,english,italians,germans,americans and dutch! entering and all,it\'ll be a blast...greets ryan
kittykat23uk
New member
I\'m entering two categories. One model is finished and has been for several months. The other has been a huge project and I\'m 95% there with it. Both are radically different styles. For the one I\'m still working on, it tells a story which I know is something that they look for, I wouldn\'t say its the cleanest paintjob I\'ve ever done, I\'ve gone a lot more for overal feel of the piece rather than hyper smooth blending and freehand. I doubt I\'ll get anywhere with them but then who knows?!
Regards
Kat
Regards
Kat
that\'s the biggest \'\'problem\'\' with golden demon everything has to be perfect,you can\'t have a reasonably well painted entry and have no atmosphere,or the otherway around it has to have bothe that\'s the prob!(or difficult thing to do),but like you said you never know so the only thing you can do is wait and see,i\'m doing three entries this year and still have to finish two of ém,but there\'s not that much to be done on them so...we will see!...but antway have a great time there!..greets ryan
,but like you said you never know so the only thing you can do is wait and see,i\'m doing three entries this year and still have to finish two of ém,but there\'s not that much to be done on them so...we will see!...but antway have a great time there!..greets ryanWell, we are going. We? We are 3 dutch guys by the Name of Koen Bakker (last year bronze winner), Jasper Kuipers (three years ago gold!) and Ramon Laan (poor bugger who never won anything yet, he needs to learn how to paint better). Oh, and we are Dutch! We made a Trinity-pact at the beginneing of this year and we showed and critiqued one anothers work pretty intensively. we think it is the better for it. I think I have made some entries simply the best I\'ve ever done. And I predict Jasper placing.... (I truly do). Koen has produced a helluva mini again and it could go far!
We litterally pushed each other and I think this is waht it is all about. We all three of us think we have produced some of the best work we have ever done. That we are very proud of, and if it wins something: great, but the fact that we are progressing yet again means so much more than winning....
Oh, there is one more person who I (and the other lads) bothered often for feedback that was really helpfull (well except for the cork comment )
You know who you are
Ramon Laan
We litterally pushed each other and I think this is waht it is all about. We all three of us think we have produced some of the best work we have ever done. That we are very proud of, and if it wins something: great, but the fact that we are progressing yet again means so much more than winning....
Oh, there is one more person who I (and the other lads) bothered often for feedback that was really helpfull (well except for the cork comment
)You know who you are
Ramon Laan
Just a note on the Jakob thing.
For every judge that accepts his mini over another becuase of his name,there will be a judge who wont because of his name.
Not literally speaking, think of it as mini karma.
Its like Tammy entering.I may be cynical but I cant help but think they will be looking out for her.
Look back at the previous winners and you cant say that no one didnt deserve what they got.
I wont be at Gamesday but I would have loved to go and compete.Although Im pretty sure I wouldnt win anything,I was pretty sure I wouldnt win at the locals and guess what?
Next year is a definite.Good luck to everyone big or small.
For every judge that accepts his mini over another becuase of his name,there will be a judge who wont because of his name.
Not literally speaking, think of it as mini karma.
Its like Tammy entering.I may be cynical but I cant help but think they will be looking out for her.
Look back at the previous winners and you cant say that no one didnt deserve what they got.
I wont be at Gamesday but I would have loved to go and compete.Although Im pretty sure I wouldnt win anything,I was pretty sure I wouldnt win at the locals and guess what?
Next year is a definite.Good luck to everyone big or small.
nice to hear there\'s gonne be some peeps from the lowlands there this year,i\'m wondering are you dutch guys going there by bus or plane and if so on what bus?, the amsterdam one or the haarlem one??,anyhow i\'m getting really exited about the hole golden demon thrill again(this shit happens every year around this time,and hope to see all of you guys there,and if not then i wish you all the verry best of luck and may you guys win!!, now once again it\'s back to the painting station...
,and hope to see all of you guys there,and if not then i wish you all the verry best of luck and may you guys win!!, now once again it\'s back to the painting station...Jasper flies in to N-ham on saturday. Koen and I take the boat and my car (I want to drive myself this year) and we\'ll be in N-ham on saturday as well. We three sleep at a youth hostel or something and next day drive to B-ham (I heard there is something going on there on sunday,so we thought we\'d check it out ). In the evening we drive back to N-ham and our hostel again, and next day Jasper flies out and Koen and I take the boat again.
I am sure this beats the bustrip by miles, I have had it with that bus... Sitting tight without sleep for 12 hours, then 12 hours games day, and directly 12 hours in the bus again sux!!!
Now if only those funny Brits could drive on the right side of the road for this weekend I\'d be very happy
Ramon
). In the evening we drive back to N-ham and our hostel again, and next day Jasper flies out and Koen and I take the boat again.I am sure this beats the bustrip by miles, I have had it with that bus... Sitting tight without sleep for 12 hours, then 12 hours games day, and directly 12 hours in the bus again sux!!!
Now if only those funny Brits could drive on the right side of the road for this weekend I\'d be very happy
Ramon
kittykat23uk
New member
Looking forwards to seeing you and Koen again Ramon!
tidoco2222
Active member
I am hoping to attend GD but won\'t be entering the Golden Demon comp I shall just admire everyone elses work as well as hopefully meeting some of you people as well.
Good grief...
Best of luck to all you peeps who intend to drive there on the day. If the marathon is on it will be an utter nightmare. Might pay to \'bite the bullet\' and go there on Friday and get B&B or join the French and Spanish sleeping on the steps..:flip:Originally posted by t_haye2
Oh, and there is something going on in Brummie i think...isn\'t it the marathon thingy as well?
