dipping debate

[fenriskw]

Not painting?

Shadzar, I have to disagree with your statement that dipping is a technique but isn\'t painting. To me painting is the act of applying paint to something, no matter how you do it.

If I had the ability and the patience to do an entire 28mm mini with shading and highlights using nothing but my Iwata Micron airbrush, should my mini be ignored since I didn\'t \"paint\" it?

 

[elouchard]

It\'s only cheating if you spin the figure clockwise to remove the excess. If it is spun counterclockwise it is fine, or if one uses Testors enamels, which are always legal.

 

[Jericho]

I think someone might be a bit sore after losing a painting contest/tournament to a dipped army

The way I see it, if you take the time to paint your army then you\'re already miles ahead of half the people gaming where I live. I have the wonderful combination of almost every unit being painted to a really high standard, except for the handful of guys I never get finished because I\'m a slow painter.

The fact that I almost won Best Painted at a Grand Tournament with a half painted army once was simply too funny

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by elouchard
It\'s only cheating if you spin the figure clockwise to remove the excess. If it is spun counterclockwise it is fine, or if one uses Testors enamels, which are always legal.

lol Nice one Eric

I don\'t really see what the fuss is all about. As Jeff has said it\'s a technique nothing more and for some figures it might work better that others.
However if a store rules it\'s \"Out of Order\" for their competition then their rules must Stand.
Hey is it any different to winning Best ARmy with one that\'s been drybrushed?Because I did that.

 

[Avelorn]

I think dipping really has helped some painters where I live. They get their armies finished quicker and that can be all the difference in motivation.

No it\'s not cheating. If the painting-part was \"getting the best transitions between a muddly brown and any other colour with means of a brush\" I think it would be cheating. Because that\'s the difference between dipping and washes you automatically get a nice blend, even if it is very random.

However the problem with dipped armies is that they all look the same. They all have the same feeling to them and becomes a bit boring. I wouldn\'t say they look shite though. The best army I can think of with dipping is Necrons. Dipping works well on metals as they get a nice oily look. You can probably also dip say an empire army and then paint the cloth by hand later and get really good results.

On a sidenote, I find it funny to see how non-elitistic this forum is despite accusations...

 

[Footoomba]

its just another technique, use it as you will, not something i would use.

 

[Thunderhawker]

Do not fear the dip, for it does not fear you!

 

[uberdark]

hey if it wins you an award then good for you.

its a personal level of aesthetics that each person follows.

as a child we think our art is great
then we revert to it only being good if its realistic and this is a level of aesthetic understanding that many of us keep over the years.
as time goes on many people see a work of art as only being good if time was invested into it. but what about art that is done quickly and someone still finds it beautiful. this is the level of aesthetic understanding that many people stay at after their late teens to early 20\'s. the point is to grow past that and find that art is not about any of these things. its the idea.

i quote joseph bueys \"Thinking is form\"

great words to live by.

 

[Friar]

Not necessarily to with the comps but when I played warhammer fantasy back in the day most of my opponents had unpainted armies or an ork army painted solid green, if dipping gets more gamers to actually field painted armies then I give it a big thumbs up. Not to mention if someone didn\'t have the confidence or patience to attempt painting a full army maybe after getting results they feel are great compaired to their painting skill by dipping it may give em the boost they need to attempt to start painting their charecter models.

and I\'m with the dipping is a technique so why not crowd. I\'ve seen some minis that look pretty damn good that were dipped mainly tyranids and orcs, but also some very nice necrons and space marines.

Bout the only dips that I see looking \"bad\" are alot of dwarfs done they just look very dirty and seem to lose alot of the charming detail.

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by fenriskw
Shadzar, I have to disagree with your statement that dipping is a technique but isn\'t painting. To me painting is the act of applying paint to something, no matter how you do it.

If I had the ability and the patience to do an entire 28mm mini with shading and highlights using nothing but my Iwata Micron airbrush, should my mini be ignored since I didn\'t \"paint\" it?

an airbrush is painting, throwing paint at a mini/object is painting. furniture stain is not paint, therefore is not painting.

it may be applying a color to an area, but even those nice looking nids with their odd coloration carapaces its not paint.

i wouldn\'t consider glazing on pottery painting unless it was paint used on it an applied with a brush or other implement. yes people use glazing for minis, but they aren\'t firing the minis in order to have the glaze do the blending and such, they actually blend the colors by hand while the firing process causes the glazes to blend.

thats what i am talking about.

you do go to a Reaper Paint\'n\'Take, of a speed painting session and see a bucket of wood stain nearby. and for speed painting it would be REALLY fast. the reason is it isn\'t painting.

even HirstArts shoe polish technique isnt really painting even though it gets great results for terrain.

i will just make a comment about a random user here that uses a method of cookie cutter sculpting as a reference. some people don\'t think the method that user uses to mas produce green-stuff patterns is sculpting. for me i don\'t consider dipping to be painting.

i dont care if someone who doesn\'t like to paint much or doesn\'t have the time for each mini to complete it uses dipping. i am not saying, like so of you think i am, that dipping shouldn\'t be done. i even suggested it to a few people that feel like painting full 40k armies was a daunting task. it helps get the job done. and if thats what they want thats fine with me.

what isn\'t fine would be someone saying they fully painted something or commissioned to have something hand painted and dipping was used. why commission someone to do the highlights/shadowing when anyone can dip a mini in some stain themselves and get nearly the same results?

again it all boils down to the rules of the contest in question.

and no i have never entered a painting contest. i paint for the enjoyment of it.

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by Shadzar
an airbrush is painting, throwing paint at a mini/object is painting. furniture stain is not paint, therefore is not painting.

it may be applying a color to an area, but even those nice looking nids with their odd coloration carapaces its not paint.

But what about inks then lol I\'ve seen a couple minis painted entirely with inks and inks aren\'t paints so should that not count as being elligable for a painting comp.





:twisted:lol couldn\'t resist

 

[Braveheart712]

What a bunch of elitist bullcrap!!! Dipping is a technique, just like wet blending, inking, layering, etc and should not be used to disqualify someone. Who the hell told you not to vote on something if it was dipped? Sounds like a few purists got their frail egos bruised when some novice that was less worthy than them presented their dipped army that looked better than the one that was painstakingly painter the \"correct\" way. Where I play we try to encourage people to paint, and I could personally care less if they do it with GW paints, valleio, craft paints from Walmart, latex from dad\'s basement or finger paints from their busy box. Asking this question, and worse, the fact 8 idiots actually agreed with it, is one of the reasons that people discount the painting elite here as a bunch of snobs. Have you ever tried to dip an army? It isn\'t easy and does require skill, trial and error, and technique to get a pleasing result. Paint how you like, but criticizing someone for using a technique they prefer is ignorant. I bet our cave dwelling ancestors would criticize everyone here for using brushes. From what I understand this \"easy\" technique wasn\'t the one used on alot of the prehistoric work common throughout caves in Europe. Fingers, sticks, bits of fur, and blowing paint from the mouth was more common. Brushes, now we are actually using brushes, how far we have fallen...

 

[Jericho]

So if anyone uses Future Floor Wax mixed with their paint, they aren\'t painting either? Man we\'re gonna be out of members soon if we keep this stuff up.

Varnish isn\'t paint either, so spraying your models for protection is cheating

 

[ampao]

Just wanted to agree with dipping as a technique. ^_^

 

[Shadzar]

no i think the elitists are the ones around here attacking me while i agree with the OP and yet they do not attack him/her.

boo-hoo someone doesn\'t agree with you. well there are two of us. or you just figure attacking me and my opinon is ok and if you attack the OP then the mods will have to do something about it?

reporting this thread to be locked.

 

[Friar]

No ones attackin ya Shad, I was just goofin round hence the :twisted: but my apologies if it seemed like that way. I am pretty sure Jericho was just goofin around as well he gave a lil teasing
and Braveheart \'s post I do think was a lil hot headed but he had a dipping incident in 86 that left him tinted for life so I can understand his feelings j/k Brave

an brave 75% of folk don\'t give a hoot if it\'s dipped or not and just becouse a few think it\'s not cool doesn\'t make folk elitist just means they have a different point of view.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Shadzar
no i think the elitists are the ones around here attacking me while i agree with the OP and yet they do not attack him/her.

boo-hoo someone doesn\'t agree with you. well there are two of us. or you just figure attacking me and my opinon is ok and if you attack the OP then the mods will have to do something about it?

reporting this thread to be locked.

I see no one attacking you, and I\'m pretty sure the Mods will agree with me here.
They are, however, attacking the IDEA that one technique should be considered cheating because it\'s easier. While other techniques, such as using microdot pens, is perfectly OK.

I personally would be very wary of any painting competition that judges technique over the final outcome as that is a bit too namby pamby arteest for me.

 

[generulpoleaxe]

it doesn\'t matter what techniques are used as long as the person who owns the finished miniature (be it painter or not) likes the end result.

i don\'t see anything wrong with people dipping their models.
it is a very limited technique, but a fast one for very basic army painting.

@shadzar, grow up mate and stop getting upset when people disagree with you. and don\'t bother with the A4 size reply as i won\'t read it.
just learn to accept that other people have different views to yours and that they are entitiled to voice those opinions as you oh so often voice yours.

nothing against you mate.

 

[PegaZus]

A a devout Bob Ross fan, I have to say any technique that looks good and saves time is nothing but good in my book.

However, you have to be able to employ that technique properly in order for things to \"look good\". If I had a chance, I\'d show you my \"Bob Ross style\" painting from when I was 16. Absolute crap. Compare that with my re-try of the technique at 33, and its not half bad. If I\'d actually spend some time to work at it, I bet you I\'d have a really stellar mountain picture.

So, I\'m sure the first couple of times someone dips, it\'ll be junk. But get the technique down, and it\'ll be a well-worth it time saver at the proper times.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Shadzar
no i think the elitists are the ones around here attacking me while i agree with the OP and yet they do not attack him/her.

boo-hoo someone doesn\'t agree with you. well there are two of us. or you just figure attacking me and my opinon is ok and if you attack the OP then the mods will have to do something about it?

reporting this thread to be locked.

I recieved the report regarding this thread this morning from Shadzar and I\'m going quote it:[align=center]
\"Reason: constant trolling and flaming. request thread to be locked.\"[/align]
Now I\'ve read this thread from my last post onwards and nowhere do I see any Trolling or Flaming in point of fact the discussions have been polite and relatively light hearted. No one has gone out of their way to pick a fight or start an arguement, so I see this report as a complete load of bollocks!.

Shadzar; It seems to me, while I\'m only able to make assessments of character from what is written by you on these forums, that you are showing an inability to distinguish the difference between reasonable discussions and trolling.
Consider that you were justly critisised for that specific behaviour less than three weeks ago I have to say that the reporting of this thread for a \"relaxed\" and impartial discussion is a complete and utter waste of the moderators time.

[align=center]
As one of the moderators I have to point out to you that WE are seriously running low on both patience and tolerance towards you. [/align]

Now this is a situation that as moderators we have had before but those people, thankfully very rare, have adapted themselves to fit into the forums and the somewhat anarchic viewpoints and discussions within them.
[align=center]
Therefore; I strongly suggest that you either learn to either adapt to the forums or exercise your right, as you have done before, and leave.[/align]

I say this with regret as I do not wish to have chase or eject anyone, but I do know that you have highly coloured the opinion of a number of respected members of the forums against you.
You might want to take that into consideration.