Do you find people\'s votes on CMON are getting harsher?

[Byteknight]

Whether due to the influx of professional quality submissions on CMON raising the bar, or whatever, I find people are more tight in their voting lately.

One guy the other day said my mini was good in his public comment, but still gave me a 3/10 for my high elf noble.

 

[DaN]

Some people are confused by the long and complex voting procedure...

 

[generulpoleaxe]

yes, scoring gets harsher.
yes, their are a lot of nob jockeys giving piss poor scores for a laugh.

here are some things that will help you, firstly, when taking a pic use a piece of coloured paper as a backdrop, placed under the mini and resting against something so that it curves like a half pipe.
this will help the mini stand out more.

next, use the wip section and paint the mini step by step listening to the advice off the painters here, they are realy helpfull.

lastly, concentrate on improving one technique at a time whilst gradulay getting used to how different colours work with different amounts of water.
when you can get a good consistancy for the different techniques you are using (some techniques require a more watery mix) then half of the struggle will be over.

oh, and look at different peoples gallerys and ask questions on how they achieved certain things that you like about their miniatures.

a few galleries to look at, vincentie\'s, bragon\'s, banshees, automaton, demonherald.

hope that helps.
don\'t take the scoring seriously, just go off the feedback people give you (and not the feedback from your gallery!)

 

[Byteknight]

Sounds like good advice. I\'m beginning to see the voting scheme is not a good feedback mechanism, especially for people like me who are starting out.

 

[lizcam]

I\'ve noticed that comments in the voting section are either things like \"Thins is wonderful!\" or non-helpful slams. There are many who still comment with hints but you\'ll get more usefull info doing what the general said. The WIP section is a great place to start and taking pics for a wip helps you learn how to do that too. I also put my WIP pics on as the background. This makes the mini really big and any mistakes or problem areas show up really well.

 

[Wren]

Waiting for comments on gallery submissions probably isn\'t the best way to get a lot of constructive feedback. There are so many pictures in the gallery that a lot don\'t receive any comments at all, and even those that do often only get a couple of one sentence remarks that can only offer so much in the way of tips. That\'s not to say the comments aren\'t helpful, or that even tracking the progression of your average votes can\'t give you feedback, just that it\'s not ideal as a sole source of feedback.

Posting to the Submissions or WIP sections of the forum to ask for feedback can be very helpful. Also if you enter contests on the Wyrd Games site there is incentive for voters to comment on all the entries, and you\'ll often get 10 comments or more.

As to your original question... I think average scores on CMON drop at least .5 a year as the highest level painters push the envelope of what\'s possible.

 

[Davyboy74]

@generulpoleaxe: quote; \"nob jockeys\" Hahahaha, i never thought id hear that term used in an online forum.....thats class mate! I\'ll still be laughing at that one this time tomorrow!

 

[Byteknight]

If the voting standard drops 0.5 a year, that means that someone\'s \"8\" from 2 years ago would be voted a \"7\" now.

You can see it sometimes in the really high votes old old minis have received.

 

[Zardan]

I have noticed this as well. There also seems to be \"voting trends\". When models are new they tend to receive better votes than if they have some years on the neck.

Take the Vampire Counts for example, most such models today receive fairly good votes.

In a year, people will be bored about them and the votes will go down.

But then again, it is human mainstream nature, and perhaps there\'s nothing wrong with that. :beer:

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Byteknight
Sounds like good advice. I\'m beginning to see the voting scheme is not a good feedback mechanism, especially for people like me who are starting out.

you\'re right there. wips are the best way to go, as genrule mentioned, there are many nobjockeys out there. be wary and grow thick skin!!

 

[uberdark]

i had the same problem with this, earlier and thought something that i did deserved a much higher score. i then gave up and began to enjoy painting instead of what a score means. i prefer the comments others leave instead nowadays.

 

[Ritual]

This is not very strange, really, when you think about it. We have a scale from 1 to 10, where 10 is \"the best\". As the quality of painting seem to be pushed forward constantly, so will the criteria for reaching a 10. Thus, the scale of voting will be constantly altered. A mini that 5 years ago would get plenty of 10s might not get many at all today, with today\'s standards. The similar holds for all the other grades as well, although the effect will be less apparent in the lower end of the scale.

 

[Amazon warrior]

True. Like everything else, mini-painting seems to be subject to fashions. New minis, a new and popular manufacturer, new techniques (nmm, osl and sheer clothing spring to mind), even people\'s colour choices.

If you swim with the tide (and have a decent level of skill), then you can certainly pick up decent marks. There\'s always people who swim across or even against the tide, tho, and most of them know they\'re doing it and don\'t care (including me!).

@byteknight: your mini certainly didn\'t rate such a low score, and certainly not on the basis of how you painted it. It looks good now, which is the only thing we\'re supposed to be judging now. If you\'d painted it upside-down with a housebrush while whistling \"Always look on the bright side\", and it looked good at the end, then that\'s all that matters. Hell, if you did that, then I\'d say you deserved some sort of extreme painter title! lol

 

[Byteknight]

AmazonWarrior, thanks for the kind words.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Zardan
...When models are new they tend to receive better votes than if they have some years on the neck.

Take the Vampire Counts for example...

OK tell me that wasn\'t deliberate

I think that there are a lot more GOOD, I mean REALLY FREAKING GOOD models being submitted in the last few years here. Hence, the competition is a lot tougher. It\'s probably not much more complicated than that - crabby perfectionists and snipers have been here since the beginning.

 

[Amazon warrior]

Originally posted by Byteknight
AmazonWarrior, thanks for the kind words.

S\'ok!

 

[Wren]

Originally posted by Ritual
A mini that 5 years ago would get plenty of 10s might not get many at all today, with today\'s standards. The similar holds for all the other grades as well, although the effect will be less apparent in the lower end of the scale.

I think it is starting to be apparent on the lower end of the scale these past couple of years. When I started on CMON, it was pretty much only left talon of roc type stuff that got averages much lower than 5. I see things which are fully painted, sometimes even based or with some shading and highlighting getting averages in the 3-4 range these days. So even the expectations for what\'s worth a \'tabletop\' vote have increased.

Which definitely does make sense, given what\'s happening at the top of the scale. But I imagine it can be disheartening to new members who post and might see the scores on older stuff in the gallery and be expecting something comensurate. Even for myself, I feel lucky to get a decent score on something I paint that I feel approaches the quality of the stuff getting top marks when I started. It kinda feels like the goal post keeps getting moved, if you see what I mean. But it\'s fair enough and as a viewer and a voter I love seeing what people can do.

 

[Byteknight]

Yeah, it can be a bit disheartening at first when shaded minis that are decently painted and easily distinguishable from one another on a gaming battlefield are deemed \"below tabletop\" levels on CMON.

They\'re not Rembrandts of course, but for the most part should meet the \"5\" level.

But whatever, the WIP section seems to be a better avenue for feedback.

 

[Ritual]

I think it becomes an inevitable effect that what\'s deemed \"tabletop quality\" will be pushed closer to the lower end of the scale as the upper end of the scale is moved forward. If TT quality should be fixed at 5 the upper half of the scale would become more and more narrow and difficult to use as standards are raised. The difference in quality between 7 and 8 would be huge compared to the difference between 3 and 4.

 

[lizcam]

Think of it this way. Athletes of today are doing things that athletes 50 years ago couldn\'t. New shoes/equipment etc have pushed the boundries of what is possible (we won\'t talk about drugs here, boys) so that what may have been exceptable in a game years ago is now minor league talent now.

It\'s the same with painting. New techniques and the sharing of knowlege has pushed the bar on what is the highest standard.

I got into painting back in the very late \'70\'s and early \'80\'s. At that point shading was rudimentory and faces crude but it was all good. Then after a few years I had to stop painting because of life. When I came back a year ago the things that I had done near the end that I thought were absolutly wonderful were barley getting 6\'s here.

I\'ve learned TONS over the last year but I have yet to break the 8.0 barrier and hardly break into the 7\'s even on my best stuff. And yes, at first I was hurt by that. But you know, after a year I realize what to look for and I totally agree with the votes I\'m getting now. I may not like them still but I do agree with them.

Buck up. There\'s nothing wrong with being in the middle of the pack when the pack is as high quality as things are these days. Just keep improving and most important ENJOYING what you do and this hobby is really worth it!