Dogs of War - Any players?

[Byronic]

Hi guys, firstly I\'ve been wondering if anyone knows a good DOW forum? The closest I\'ve got is the little section in Librarium Online.

Secondly are there any DoW players on here, if so what do you think of my list? I\'m still playing around with it a lot - it\'s a WIP, so I\'d love any opinions, even if they\'re \"this army is horrific, I\'d play one like this:\" type of thing, this is the main list i\'ve been playing, but i\'ve got a couple of other experimental ones (e.g. fast moving heavy cavalry/ogre based etc)

(If there\'s a better way to get army builder to work please let me know - this is the only way i could get stuff from it )

My Army list :

2000 Pts - Dogs of War Roster

Paymaster (1#, 73 Pts)
1 Paymaster @ 73 Pts
Hand Weapon; Brace of Pistols; Heavy Armour

Hireling Wizard (1#, 159 Pts)
1 Hireling Wizard @ 159 Pts
General; Barding; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Crossbowmen (10#, 80 Pts)
10 Crossbowmen @ 80 Pts
Hand Weapon; Crossbow

Heavy Cavalry (5#, 120 Pts)
5 Heavy Cavalry @ 120 Pts
Musician Mus; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Light Cavalry (5#, 90 Pts)
5 Light Cavalry @ 90 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Bow; Fast Cavalry
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Light Cavalry (5#, 70 Pts)
5 Light Cavalry @ 70 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Fast Cavalry
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Duellists (8#, 72 Pts)
8 Duellists @ 72 Pts
Hand Weapon; Pistol; Skirmishers

Voland\'s Venators (5#, 195 Pts)
4 Voland\'s Venators @ 195 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
1 Voland @ [99] Pts
Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Ricco\'s Republican Guard (20#, 300 Pts)
19 Ricco\'s Republican Guard @ 300 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Pike; Heavy Armour
1 Ricco @ [72] Pts
Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour

Maneaters (3#, 270 Pts)
3 Maneaters @ 270 Pts
Brace of Handguns (x3); Heavy Armour; Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn

Maneaters (3#, 270 Pts)
3 Maneaters @ 270 Pts
Brace of Handguns (x3); Heavy Armour; Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn

Norse Marauders (10#, 130 Pts)
9 ~[(^One or more selected options present a potential usage conflict]×~[(#]Norse Marauders @ 130 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Frenzy
1 Champion @ [20] Pts
Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Frenzy

War Engines (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Cannon @ 85 Pts
Cannon
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon

War Engines (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Cannon @ 85 Pts
Cannon
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon

Total Roster Cost: 1999

Created with Army Builder
Copyright (c) 1997-2006 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

[ScottRadom]

Hi there. Only had one dogs of war player locally, and he was never ever really able to pull much of in terms of tournament style victories.

I think your list looks more like a points denial force. Lots of small units that are hard for your opponent to score points from but tough for you to coordinate any sort of real hard hitting combat charges.

5 man units of cav won\'t do it, your ogres will likely soak up one-two casualties at least before combat begins. You may have trouble breaking your opponents line.

You\'ve got shooting and magic, not enough to roast your opponent but some to help you thin down the areas you wish to attack. I just don\'t know if you\'ll have enough \"punch\" left in your force from the time things go down on turn 3 or so.

Also leadership should be a big issue with you. Demons, Hydra/manticore, undead seem to really be dominating the tourny scene (from my experience anyway) and I don\'t see a lot of chance for you to withstand the amount of LD tests you will likely be ably to take.

It looks to be a fun list to play, you will get huge army comp scores from your opponent (I would give you tops) but I feel it\'s too much of everything to form a reliable battle plan.

 

[Byronic]

Thanks for the advice man, really really helpful

Originally posted by ScottRadom
Hi there. Only had one dogs of war player locally, and he was never ever really able to pull much of in terms of tournament style victories.

I think your list looks more like a points denial force. Lots of small units that are hard for your opponent to score points from but tough for you to coordinate any sort of real hard hitting combat charges.

Really hadn\'t thought of it like that, thanks, I\'ve changed to my alternate list and changed it a fair bit, going with a few hard hitting units, and a load of movement, just to give me a couple of chances of flanking

5 man units of cav won\'t do it, your ogres will likely soak up one-two casualties at least before combat begins. You may have trouble breaking your opponents line.
- Even with volands or heavy cav? they\'ve got a 2+ save, and are usually across the table in 1 turn(+1 of my openents)
You\'ve got shooting and magic, not enough to roast your opponent but some to help you thin down the areas you wish to attack. I just don\'t know if you\'ll have enough \"punch\" left in your force from the time things go down on turn 3 or so.
I\'ve gone for a bit more shooting, roughly half of my army have some now, sticking with a mounted scroll caddy for magic protection, just trying to squeeze points to get him to be a level 2, just so I can increase the 1 of chance of getting of an irresistable force

Also leadership should be a big issue with you. Demons, Hydra/manticore, undead seem to really be dominating the tourny scene (from my experience anyway) and I don\'t see a lot of chance for you to withstand the amount of LD tests you will likely be ably to take.

On my new list I\'ve been taking my paymaster in my man eaters - stubborn, immune to psych, and also using borgio the besieger (special char I know, but I don\'t play tournaments yet) he had leadership 9 with an 18 inch radius, also he causes fear, which protects 1 more unit, between him and ogres my army is now slightly improved on leadership/causing fear so avoiding a couple of tests

It looks to be a fun list to play, you will get huge army comp scores from your opponent (I would give you tops) but I feel it\'s too much of everything to form a reliable battle plan.

My new list is just fast and ogrey, with a lot of shooting which suffers no penalties (man eaters always hit on 3+ with a 24inch range, so it\'s only vs skirmishers/single models when I hit on a 4+) - leadbelchers don\'t have huge range, but they pack a punch and provide some really good flank protection, first time I\'ve ever used these guys, really pleased with them. And there\'s 2 canon just to provide some real killing power


Here\'s my new/alternate list anyway :

2000 Pts - Dogs of War Roster - Unnamed

Paymaster (1#, 101 Pts)
1 Paymaster @ 101 Pts
Barding; Hand Weapon; Brace of Pistols; Lance; Heavy Armour
1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts
1 Enchanted Shield @ [10] Pts

Borgio the Besieger (1#, 250 Pts)
1 Borgio the Besieger @ 250 Pts
General; Barding; Lance; Shield; Causes Fear
1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Hireling Wizard (1#, 124 Pts)
1 Hireling Wizard @ 124 Pts
Barding; Hand Weapon
1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts
2 Dispel Scroll @ [50] Pts

Voland\'s Venators (5#, 195 Pts)
4 Voland\'s Venators @ 195 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
1 Voland @ [99] Pts
Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Heavy Cavalry (5#, 105 Pts)
5 Heavy Cavalry @ 105 Pts
Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Light Cavalry (5#, 90 Pts)
5 Light Cavalry @ 90 Pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Shield; Fast Cavalry
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Light Cavalry (5#, 90 Pts)
5 Light Cavalry @ 90 Pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Shield; Fast Cavalry
5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Leadbelchers (3#, 165 Pts)
3 Leadbelchers @ 165 Pts
Leadbelcher Cannon; Light Armour; Causes Fear

Leadbelchers (3#, 165 Pts)
3 Leadbelchers @ 165 Pts
Leadbelcher Cannon; Light Armour; Causes Fear

Maneaters (3#, 270 Pts)
3 Maneaters @ 270 Pts
Brace of Handguns (x3); Heavy Armour; Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn

Maneaters (3#, 270 Pts)
3 Maneaters @ 270 Pts
Brace of Handguns (x3); Heavy Armour; Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn

War Engines (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Cannon @ 85 Pts
Cannon
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon

War Engines (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Cannon @ 85 Pts
Cannon
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon

Total Roster Cost: 1995

Any thoughts would be welcome

By the way here\'s borgios stats incase people don\'t know them:

Mounted on barded warhorse

armour save 2+
ward save 5+

Ws 6,
s 4
t 4
w 3
in 5
a 4
ld 9

Causes fear, friendly units may use his leadership within 18, if he dies roll a dice on a 4+ he stands back up with 1 wound, he also allows a unit of heavy cav or pikemen to take a magic banner.
Any rolls to hit of 6 count as strength 10

Any thoughts welcome

 

[generulpoleaxe]

missile fire isn\'t effective in warhammer unless it\'s artillery or from a bs 4.

drop most of the ogres.
one unit of maneaters to secure a flank is all that\'s needed.
increase the number of heavy cavalry and decrease the light.
use the heavy cavalry to secure your other flank and have the small unit of light cavalry to march block one of your opponents flanks.

pikemen are your friend, you need lots to create a sturdy line with the cannon either side of the central infantry block.
the cannon weakens his centre allowing you to punch through with ease whilst your pike blocks can defend the flanks.

look at history and it will guide you, study the tournaments to see which armies are more effective for their points and learn to counter those armies.

 

[ScottRadom]

Your army follow the MSU style of play (MUultiple Small Units) which I am not a big fan of, but can win games. Your goal sould be to win the game in deployment. Deploy your fast cav models typically toward the cetner of the battlefield and try to coaz your opponent to plunking down the bulk of his line. You should have more units than your opponent so he\'ll have to get to the meat and potatoes of his army sooner than yourself. Then after you see where the stuff he\'s fighting is you need to deploy in a manner that will allow you to use your speed to fight 1-2 units of his without engaging the rest of his force. It\'s tricky, takes patience, but can be done.

Even with the maneaters and borgio your force is FRAGILE! Against even modest shooting, which usually is at S4 nowadays as GenerulPoleaxe pointed out any single one of your units can be trashed in one round of shooting/magic. Maybe two. How would you like your chances with the small heavy cav and the One unit of maneaters shot out from you?

You can do it, it\'s just a hard unconventional way t go about it. Your artillery seems to exist only to give your opponent something static to chase down and kill. Without any block of infantry or even missile troops those cannon boys on the hill are gonna find themselves looking in the eyes of wolves, harpies or whatever PDQ. I\'d either look towards defending them with something or dropping them to bulk out your heavy cav. At whatever you\'re paying for your cannons getting only 1-2 turns of performance from them makes them two expensive.

Good Luck and post how you do!

 

[Mikeyboy9000]

Completely off topic, does anyone know if the \'birdmen of (rip off of alcatraz)\' are still in production?

 

[ScottRadom]

Isn\'t that wierd? I was thinking the same thing this morning. I think they are OOP, and in North America the bitz stuff got nerfed so I don\'t think they\'re available to get here at all.

Thought they were cool figs, but hated the idea of them in the warhammer world.

 

[Mikeyboy9000]

I know what you mean, i absolutely loved the figurines, think it made me get into miniatures. But yes, flying winged men who are the only ones to come up with it in a world of magic and crazy contraptions.... little bit out of place.

 

[ScottRadom]

It was that and the fact they carried crossbows to boot. How do they reload those bastards?

Also how are you liking the new Direction with Cap A? I didn\'t mind the end of Civil War, and I am happy with the storyline Brubaker is continuing. Don\'t even mind Bucky picking up the shield....

 

[ServentOfSigmar]

A great Advantage to Dogs Of War is there use of Pikemen. The Ability to fight in Four, FOUR!, ranks is incredible and can help provide a cavalry defence unit gaining +1 strength and attacking first in the beginning round. I think it is what makes Dogs of War so cool and seems to connect fluff wise. Just a thought to add to your list. Approximetly 275pts for a block with 25 and full command with heavy armour seems well worth it to me.

 

[ScottRadom]

Pikemen are great. Really fun and I wished they would\'ve crossed those guys over into another list.

They\'re still really fragile as they get lots of attacks, but they are only men behind the pikes still....

Great models, good on the table, well worth consideration. Good tip, I\'m wishing i had made the reccomendation earlier!

 

[ServentOfSigmar]

Some of the old earlier edition charactors and units really apeal and can make the army not only unique but also fun to see and play such as Johann Van Hal the witch hunter rules can be hard to find and models even harder but if you are interested with the hobbying aspect they can be fun to convert. In my list that i am currently cunstructing im bacing it around A wealthey entrepreneur with hired mercenarys searching for Albion the mysterious land (where the giants and the druid come from) with help from Well experienced mercenarys . I really want to use these models but 500 points is a bit much. To get the rules for Val Hal... bloodbowl.arnholm.nu/images/Witch_Hunters.pdf hopefully this may give others ideas and be sure to share upcoming army lists and ideas.

 

[Jericho]

I\'ve played Dogs of War for years. Don\'t play them if you expect to be competitive and/or play in Tournaments. Some won\'t let you play at all, most tourneys you will simply get your ass kicked because of the new army books being quite a bit more powerful than our rules... which have basically been the same since 2002.

Pikemen are better on paper than in game. Light infantry/fast cav are the only thing they can really take on single-handedly. WS3, S3, T3, medicre Ld, expensive if you want a meagre 5+ armor save... not a good combination. I love the imagery of a wall of pikes but in game they don\'t stand up to strong opposition. Ricco\'s aren\'t too bad with WS4 and heavy armor included. Ricco is a nice statline for a unit champ. Feel free to challenge and kill other guys\' champs and weak heroes with little risk to yourself.

Here\'s how I see your army list being effective. The cav run around and smack things, hoping for the best. Some concern about their lack of hitting power/special rules. Vulnerable to magic as well. Meanwhile the rest of your army is fairly safe taking random potshots... basically supporting the cav charge. It could work, I\'ve not yet seen a DOW list with so many shooting Ogre units in it. You\'ll have to let me know how it goes!

Maybe dropping a pair of Maneaters (2x2 for your units, or maybe a single unit of 3-4) would free up a lot of points for some mages/scroll caddies. Magic defense is a huge problem for DOW since we have no magic items and no really solid mage-hunting units.

 

[ServentOfSigmar]

I understand your point but i have to say that the idea of the army is a wealthy man hiring of soldiers. The soldiers are the pikemen and they look awesome. Dogs of War is a Fluff baced army, to a point you can stratagize with them but if you really want an army that will win tounements I would advise you to look elsewhere. Dogs of war are just too outdated.

 

[Byronic]

Thanks for the input all, given me some more stuff to think about

Firstly I collect this army because it appeals to me greatly, I love the idea of mercenaries, especially with a bunch of ogres thrown in, coupled with that I also enjoy a real challenge, my other army is a goblin one, so I\'m used to it The fluff for dogs of war really is brilliant

@ Jericho you\'re completely spot on about pikemen seeming amazing on paper, but not quite living up to it in the game, one problem I\'ve found is that you have to really run at least 25 to be using them to their full potential, and ideally you want riccos, the WS4 + Ricco make a big difference, however that\'s already 360 points, which is a huge amount to fork out for a core unit, especially if you get unlucky and get flanked. - Having said that if a weak massed opponent faces you you can completely slaughter them - especially with a character in the front rank

My main opponent is my housemate at the moment - who plays wood elves, I don\'t like the idea of tailoring lists to fight one army, but by accident this one seems a good match for his fast cav + dryad + treeman standard build.

As far as the weak vs shooting + magic goes I\'m well aware of it, but it\'s something I just have to deal with in my army, it\'s very hard to squeeze in more scroll caddies, so this list copes with magic by running at the oponent fast, and hopefully getting into combat in turn 2, as far as shooting goes my heavy cav can take a fair bit with their 2+armour saves, and if I can\'t set my ogres up out of line of sight of enemies ranged troops then a few get shielded by them, I\'ve only had 1 game where I lost a unit before getting into combat so far; due to a panic test.

It\'s most likely because of my opponent, but I seem to be coping with magic and shooting ok so far, my scrolls are usually used up by turn 3, but I enjoy having to carefully make the choice which spells to dispel, and once I\'m in combat I just hope that my maneuvering and troops hold up, so far a problem is that maneaters really need to get the charge of to be used to real destructive potential (15 strength 5 attacks), they\'re not so good at receiving one, I\'m getting better at that however, and their 12inch movement helps.

As far as ogre shooting goes I love it! Brace of handguns is amazing due to pistol rules, moving 12 then shooting 24 (+d6 in first turn) is brilliant, and the worse they ever hit on is 5+ (stand and shoot, or vs skirmishers)

I\'m also considering making a Pegasus mage hunting captain - maybe a lance or sword of might/battle - it however may be too much of a suicide char?

I\'ve probably neglected to address lots of the great points that people have made due to the mass of them, I\'ll re-read tomorrow and pick up on the ones i\'ve missed.

@ServentOfSigmar: I\'ve gone with an on the march themed army, they\'re all on scratchbuilt cobbled road style bases - although so far I\'ve only got 1 maneater, 5 heavy cavalry 5 duellists and a paymaster on foot painted I\'ll post some pictures soon.


Finally you guys probably know, but an Aussie called Jeff Traish did really well with a dogs of war army, I think he may have gone on to win a fair few big tournaments, however they run a pretty good comp system over there, here\'s a link to his army if anyone\'s interested; http://www.irresistibleforce.com.au/Portals/0/Masters2007/Army14.htm

 

[ScottRadom]

Hey Byronic, getting flanked is never unlucky, it usually means you did something wrong!!

I still like the idea of pikemen, but they ARE more designed for a static force and wouldn\'t fit in well at all with your current army. I would love to se pic\'s so hurry up and get them painted. Stop reading this, go PAINT...



Still here? GO man, GO paint!

 

[Byronic]

Originally posted by ScottRadom
Hey Byronic, getting flanked is never unlucky, it usually means you did something wrong!!

I still like the idea of pikemen, but they ARE more designed for a static force and wouldn\'t fit in well at all with your current army. I would love to se pic\'s so hurry up and get them painted. Stop reading this, go PAINT...



Still here? GO man, GO paint!

I wish I could be painting right now :s, I\'ve got an essay a week due in for Uni for 3 weeks, and 2 of them are horrible :S, I\'ll probably take some pictures of my nearly completed cav tomorrow.


By the way anyone have any tips for using the GW snow? I\'m painting white underneath which has made it look much better, but are there any tricks of the trade I should know?

I\'ve got a the start of my first attempt at a maneater 1/2 painted/converted which I\'ll post up as well

 

[Byronic]

Picture time, here\'s some of my (semi finished) DoW stuff so far, any recommendations are welcome

(I know bad workmen blame their tools, but I had to take these with a low energy desklamp as my only lighting, meaning that I had to use flash, resulting in a bit of glare, also i\'m aware that they are covered in bits of snow, they\'ve been brushed clean now )

I\'m going to be posting a WIP thread with the army soon, any suggestions, C+C are welcome!!

 

[ScottRadom]

Looks like a real nice start to your army. I like the coversion on the ogre, hard to tell he didn\'t come with those handguns. I would reccomend drilling out the barrels though!

Well done. Got any more pics?

 

[Bigdennis52]

who is that stand alone gold armor figure with the huge feathers on his head? I might want to purchase him to thief his plume