Ethics
- Thread starter Ebonbuddha
- Start date
evil tendencies
Cake or Death?
I agree that GW should respond more to their customers, but I don\'t think that breaking the law is the proper way of getting them to do so.
As a long-term gamer and collector (10+ years of pouring way more money than I could reasonably afford but doing it anyway) I am really disappointed by this whole issue.
Firstly, I\'m disappointed with GW for doing something so stupid and shortsighted. This is incredibly destructive to the painting contest community, where most people don\'t need to buy entire regiments of models. They want a few specific parts from various kits. So right off the bat they are alienating a large portion of their most talented customers, and in doing so losing much of the free advertising of the Golden Demon contest.
If they are pissed about all the scratchbuilds in the contest already, then they can prepare for some even bigger headaches when people can\'t get their hands on the parts they want anymore.
As a gamer, I think this is also a big mistake. I\'m a veteran army painter, and I have no interest in doing armies of stock models anymore.
Conversions and bitz make the projects fun and worth doing. I\'m the guy who buys heads, backpacks, shoulder pads, and weapons for 66 Noise Marines, just because they are so damn cool and I can\'t resist the Slaaneshi favored number. If it was possible, I\'d probably want to go back and buy up a bunch of Fantasy arms/weapons/shields and stuff to finish off the models now that they have BP/CCW as well. Not an option sadly.
As an army builder I\'m also annoyed that so many blisters aren\'t available in shops anymore. If you want to buy a box in 5 or 10 increments, then you\'re fine. But if you want to 6 or 8-strong units you\'re screwed. You get to wait a couple of weeks for something you should\'ve been able to buy on the spot. Waiting for a bitz order is one thing, but having to wait for a single cavalry model to bulk out a regiment is stupid.
Combined with the boneheaded moves they\'re pulling with the paint range all the time (discontinuing the best metallics and inks in the industry, ditching colors that are harder to mix, and keeping the ones that are already really similar to other colors) I\'m really having a hard time justifying spending any more money there.
I have a ton of armies that I love, and lots of painting contest type projects that I want to do, but I find myself frustrated all the time when I have to deal with the company in any way. And I can\'t really see myself buying anything new from them, except maybe for some more Forgeworld stuff. Stuff like Thunderbolts and tank conversion kits are just too pretty to say no to.
I\'m really worried that sooner or later these dumb ideas will come back to bite them in the ass, and they\'ll find themselves in real financial trouble (not less than ideal growth rates, but actual losses). I don\'t want to see the games die because of the corporate practises of the company who makes them. But at the end of the day, they are making it really hard to get excited about spending money on their product.
Firstly, I\'m disappointed with GW for doing something so stupid and shortsighted. This is incredibly destructive to the painting contest community, where most people don\'t need to buy entire regiments of models. They want a few specific parts from various kits. So right off the bat they are alienating a large portion of their most talented customers, and in doing so losing much of the free advertising of the Golden Demon contest.
If they are pissed about all the scratchbuilds in the contest already, then they can prepare for some even bigger headaches when people can\'t get their hands on the parts they want anymore.
As a gamer, I think this is also a big mistake. I\'m a veteran army painter, and I have no interest in doing armies of stock models anymore.
Conversions and bitz make the projects fun and worth doing. I\'m the guy who buys heads, backpacks, shoulder pads, and weapons for 66 Noise Marines, just because they are so damn cool and I can\'t resist the Slaaneshi favored number. If it was possible, I\'d probably want to go back and buy up a bunch of Fantasy arms/weapons/shields and stuff to finish off the models now that they have BP/CCW as well. Not an option sadly.
As an army builder I\'m also annoyed that so many blisters aren\'t available in shops anymore. If you want to buy a box in 5 or 10 increments, then you\'re fine. But if you want to 6 or 8-strong units you\'re screwed. You get to wait a couple of weeks for something you should\'ve been able to buy on the spot. Waiting for a bitz order is one thing, but having to wait for a single cavalry model to bulk out a regiment is stupid.
Combined with the boneheaded moves they\'re pulling with the paint range all the time (discontinuing the best metallics and inks in the industry, ditching colors that are harder to mix, and keeping the ones that are already really similar to other colors) I\'m really having a hard time justifying spending any more money there.
I have a ton of armies that I love, and lots of painting contest type projects that I want to do, but I find myself frustrated all the time when I have to deal with the company in any way. And I can\'t really see myself buying anything new from them, except maybe for some more Forgeworld stuff. Stuff like Thunderbolts and tank conversion kits are just too pretty to say no to.
I\'m really worried that sooner or later these dumb ideas will come back to bite them in the ass, and they\'ll find themselves in real financial trouble (not less than ideal growth rates, but actual losses). I don\'t want to see the games die because of the corporate practises of the company who makes them. But at the end of the day, they are making it really hard to get excited about spending money on their product.
If they want to save money, stop making LOTR. As far as i can tell, that is where the most loss of revenue is coming from. If they get rid of it, they stop paying licence fees. They can reduce their head count as they need fewer designers and staff to support it. Also, stop making crap Codices and Army Books. Get it right the first time and save money. 3 Chaos army lists (4 if you count Daemons) for 3rd ed (?) 40k is ridiculous. How much of a waste is that?
Cast your own, don\'t sell or buy them, and i couldn\'t see a problem. If you sell it, then you have crossed the boundary of stealing intellectual property. What would be best if you cast your own is to change the design slightly. So if you want to cast up plasma pistols, mould on a small dial or something like that, so you are no longer exactly copying what GW produce.
I think that LOTR could be on the way out soon. They had contractual obligations to support it like a core game for X number of years, and IIRC that\'s beginning to run out. I worked in those shops during the release of the last two movies, and for a while afterwards. Even at the time customers had stopped paying attention to the new releases, and only a few kids or fanatical collectors would ever buy any LOTR minis.
40k and Fantasy outsell LOTR by a ton, at least from what I saw working there for a few years. Taking that burden off the company can\'t be a bad thing, even if the designers/sculptors like the LOTR background it\'s not a productive use of their time and resources.
40k and Fantasy outsell LOTR by a ton, at least from what I saw working there for a few years. Taking that burden off the company can\'t be a bad thing, even if the designers/sculptors like the LOTR background it\'s not a productive use of their time and resources.
Thunderhawker
New member
Ah but remember, the Hobbit is coming!
Dragon Forge Design
New member
On the issue of recasting, a piece for yourself I have no issues with, reselling I think is no different than make counterfeit 20\'s and going shopping.. its theft.
As for it being unfair to the sculptors, wouldn\'t effect them in the least bit as they are paid a salary wage..so resales don\'t effect them in that way. It would on the other hand effect every employee in the company if it was a big enough problem that lost revenue caused them to lay off employees.
As for why they discontinued the bits service, as much as everyone says they used it..it wasn\'t profitable in the end to keep that many parts in inventory. From what I understand, better than 50% of the line never got a single order in a years time world wide. The bits packs are supposed to be set up to match popularity orders from when they had the service.
As for it being unfair to the sculptors, wouldn\'t effect them in the least bit as they are paid a salary wage..so resales don\'t effect them in that way. It would on the other hand effect every employee in the company if it was a big enough problem that lost revenue caused them to lay off employees.
As for why they discontinued the bits service, as much as everyone says they used it..it wasn\'t profitable in the end to keep that many parts in inventory. From what I understand, better than 50% of the line never got a single order in a years time world wide. The bits packs are supposed to be set up to match popularity orders from when they had the service.
desertdragon1964
New member
I dont see the problem with recasting something for yourself or even someone else as long as you give it to them.If the person wants to pay for the materials only that is ok by me as well,but not for profit as this would be stealing to me.DD
IronWorker
New member
Oh I had pretty much gotten over my GW hate not that I have any interest in their games but why in the hell are they ditching their metalics? GW metalics are the only metalics I use.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
They are ditching those that don\'t sell not everything. Brazen brass if I remember correctly. And I have to disagree about the inks.. hopefully these new ones are an improvement. Otherwise the old Coat D\'arm washes works better in most cases.
However I am sad to see any colour go as the more you have the merrier.
S
Shadzar
Guest
How is making/sculpting bits breaking the law? GW even has/had instructions on how to make things like purity seals and such for conversions. They even used GW seals to make molds of.
They told you how to and suggested it as a method for making your own. Whether they intended to say it is permissable by having such a conversion on their website (now I cannot find a link to it after these years), they already told people to do it.
So now are they trying to say you cannot make any sort of bit form their IP when they have already told you in the past to make your own?
It also comes down to are you mass-marketing their bits that you may be reproducing, ot making them for yourself.
A few purity seals and other things cannot be purchased under their current or past product lines. You had to pay $30 to get everything, and retailers weren\'t supposed to open and sell parts for conversion, that is part of the contract.
Just because they wish to make conversion sets now because people want to convert more now, adn they understand their is market for such, it doesn\'t mean they can prevent anyone from making things to convert with, unless they try going after every modelling company that makes anything that could be used as a part for converting GW minis.
Plastruct
Woodland Scenics
PolyMerics (and other modelling clay type makers)
I am not even going to try to make a list like that, but if they did it would violate anti-trust laws.
So it is really just a matter of are you making something you have that could be \"fair-use\" reproduction, or are you cutting into their profits.
If they were to sell individual purity seals then maybe they woudl have room to gripe about it, or if someone was selling press-molded GW minis replicas then they are doing something illegal.
But making a few bits to suppliment the fact that the market doesn\'t have any doesn\'t cut it. They want to complain then they need to hury up and get the product out their for the customers who cannot make their own bits so they can buy them. :drunk:
Either way it doesn\'t affect the sculptors for GW as they should have been paid for the work on a piece of \"art\" at its completion since they buy all rights to them anyway right?
freakinacage
Well-known member
aye making your own is ok (they mention that in the articles) but if you sell it, you are breaking the law.as dfd said, if you sell them off, it\'s no different to counterfitting. theft, pure and simple
arogers907
New member
This is an interesting thread but a terrible poll. You\'re asking two questions, \'Would you cast bits?\' and \'Would you buy recast bits?\'. I doubt it\'s reasonable to assume that anyone saying either yes or no to one would be a yes or no on the other.
I\'d be in favor of casting bits for personal use (although I wouldn\'t, personally... I\'d sculpt my own). However, I wouldn\'t my someone else\'s recasts of GW bitz.
-Andy
I\'d be in favor of casting bits for personal use (although I wouldn\'t, personally... I\'d sculpt my own). However, I wouldn\'t my someone else\'s recasts of GW bitz.
-Andy
Talion
New member
Yep would recast pieces. I\'m trying to get hold of some old genestealer hybrids at the moment that sell for about £7 each on e-bay. As soon as i can get one cheap, you can bet I\'ll be casting that baby up till the cows come home.
Already re-cast all the hybrid arms just need to get the damn bodies.
Already re-cast all the hybrid arms just need to get the damn bodies.
Sauce Devil
New member
I\'m not sure why they stopped supplying them, perhaps it wasn\'t profitable enough or they ARE trying to make people buy an extra box-set just for spares.
Realistically I don\'t think the spare/extra parts market is big enough to matter to GW so I don\'t see a problem with it either way.
:idea:
I wonder if we\'ll be seeing box-sets of spare parts from GW in future?
Realistically I don\'t think the spare/extra parts market is big enough to matter to GW so I don\'t see a problem with it either way.
:idea:
I wonder if we\'ll be seeing box-sets of spare parts from GW in future?
Sauce Devil
New member
Good point.
I wasn\'t a huge fan of the LOTR movies (too heavy on SFX and overgrown monsters) but it\'s quite possible they could produce a dozen more LOTR based movies - Tolkien wrote a number of Middle Earth books.
Bengoodall
New member
Getting back into that stealing of IP, Im fairly sure here that GW didnt invent orks, elves, dwarfs, goblins etc etc, IE, the main part of WHFB.
As for 40K, aint that basically just a sci fi version there of.
Oh, and the chaos datasheet maelstrom of blood is a blatant rip off off slayers rain in blood.
When in glass houses GW....
As for 40K, aint that basically just a sci fi version there of.
Oh, and the chaos datasheet maelstrom of blood is a blatant rip off off slayers rain in blood.
When in glass houses GW....
No Such Agency
New member
Bengoodall, GW are just being the wargamers\' Disney. \"GW elves\" are to \"thousands of years of stories about fey folk\" as \"Snow White and the Seven Dwarves\" is to \"the fairy tale of Snow White\". Something old, packaged and sold, with a new, copyrighted name on it.
Legally, they have rights to their versions of the characters, or to any unique character types that they invent themselves. They don\'t try to shut down anyone making (e.g.) fantasy elves of any sort, but if you make obvious rip-offs of theirs... well look out!
Legally, they have rights to their versions of the characters, or to any unique character types that they invent themselves. They don\'t try to shut down anyone making (e.g.) fantasy elves of any sort, but if you make obvious rip-offs of theirs... well look out!
I fully agree that the LOTR line should be ditched. Now, it could just be the fact that I am slightly biased because, in my opinion at least, The Hobbit was the only worthwhile novel Tolkien wrote, but it could also be that the game is not fun in the least. The models really aren\'t that great, perhaps two LOTR models are even worth being called \'eye candy\', and the scenarios are unbelievably boring. Far too much work, time, money, and resources are thrown into a giant waste heap.
And they are discontinuing Brazen Brass? That is infuriating, I must stock up on that!
And they are discontinuing Brazen Brass? That is infuriating, I must stock up on that!
