Fantasy Fiction

Infidel Castro

New member
Books? What that?

I also believe things have gone stale in Fantasy writing, especially from the big guns. I heard Goodkind mentioned and a friend of mine loves his stuff (very imaginative he says). I read the first book (Wizard\'s First Rule?) and whilst it\'s fair to say he\'s got good scope and vision, he couldn\'t write for toffees! It was terribly put together! Still, as I say, his ideas did come through and by the sceond book he was a bit more coherent. Still ain\'t got no further though.

The last series I read was Stephen Donaldson (Thomas Covenant) and that\'s where I wanted to leave everything. I quite simply loved the two trilogies and the ideas he threw into it. I love the anti-hero\'s denial of everything, as acceptance of the world he finds himself to be part of would be a letting go of his fight against leprosy and all that. That\'s all I\'ll say about that, but I recommend them any time. Dark and strange. The only gripe is that the first two books are more of a hurdle than they need to be as the main character\'s refusal to engage in his surroundings does wear a bit thin, as does Donaldson\'s over-descriptive commentary, but thereafter everything becomes much better. I thought the series so good that I wanted no other High Fantasy ever again. Maybe.

A series to avoid is Tad Williams fantasy epic The Dragonbone Chair, Green Angel Tower (?) and all those. Whilst he made a really nice setting with great characters and races, he screws it all up with the worst ending possible, crammed into about 20 pages, where every bugger survives certain death and everyone lives happily ever after. Bastard. It was sooo sickly I threw the book with force towards the bin (and missed). The only other book I did that with was Bored of the Rings by the Harvard Lampoon. Pile of toss and goes to show that going to America\'s greatest University (or one of them at least) isn\'t an indicator of intelligence. I threw that one and DID get it in the bin.

Feist started off brilliantly but it all becomes predictable in the end as he struggles to invent new dangers for Midkemia. However, the background on magic/metaphysics/religion/Buddhist ideas is top and a real thumbs-up.

Worm Ouroburos is fun! Enjoyed that. Pratchett is out-and-out quality, probably the best writer around in Fantasy circles. He could never run out of ideas either, as the Discworld is a parody of Earth. He gets better and better.

Alas, these days I read more fiction than fantasy as fiction is much more imaginative (says I!) I\'m sure others will disagree, but hey, what can I do?

Books are grrrrr-eat!

Anyone ever heard of the Borribles? That\'s the closest I got to fantasy apart from Pratchett recently and I\'m enjoying it immensely.

Read on.

Phil :innocent:
 

frenchkid

New member
That must be the longest post I ever saw. Maybe you should think about writing some Fantasy:D
Anyone here tried too write?
I like writing small stories for my armie, makes it gives it more charactere.
 

finn17

New member
Books...books...books...

It\'s really great to see how many of us have had similar experiences with books. No one at work has heard of any of the books I love - boring b*st*rds!

Best book I ever read: Gormenghast. The third in the series is a bit wobbly but reading Peake is like triggerring a video in your brain.

Most readable author: Terry Pratchett. The UK has just voted 5 of his books in their favourite top 100. Only Dickens (yawn) equals that feat.

Best science fiction(?) Frank Herbert\'s Dune. Don\'t believe that\'s been mentioned here and I can\'t understand why.

Best Sword and sorcery(?) Michael Moorcock. Prolific author. I cut my teeth on him and Stephen Donaldson. Then read LOTR and thought it was crap. Sorry.

Best fantasy(?) William Horwood\'s Duncton Wood series. It\'s all about moles would you believe, but it is an absolute treat for fantasy fans. You will cry your eyes out however. I did. Several times. Check out his new workings of \'Wind in the Willows\', absolutely magical...

Best quick read: Richard Bach\'s Illusions. If you haven\'t read it do so. Will only take you an hour and might (will) change your life.
Also do Johnathan Livingstone Seagull while your at it. Try not to let Neil Diamond\'s crap song put you off.

Biggest heart string puller: Guy Gavriel Kay\'s series the (...Something? ) Tree. Sorry forgot the real name but can\'t lose my train of thought. (I have to hang on to a train of thought when I get one!!)

Best historical fantasy; Marion Zimmer Bradley Mists of Avalon etc... Buy them..read them.. enjoy them. Feminist view of the Arthurian legends and benefits from that perspective. Feminist in the non-political, goolie-crunching sense.

Best cross-over fantasy (made that up): Julian May\'s extraordinary series that starts off as SF and moves into pseudo-historical fantasy and then back again (several times). Can\'\'t remember the damn name...!!! Sorry it\'s 2.00 a.m. and I have been imbibing the amber nectar. My books are also all in storage which doesn\'t help.

Best comic ever: 2000AD nuff said. Those who know will know those who don\'t proably can\'t get their hands on it. Still buying it weekly 20 years down the line.

I am sure there are others I have forgotten but I have rambled enough...soz:bouncy:
 

darthfoley

Active member
2000AD? Best comic ever? Pshaw.

Gimme Preacher any day. :)

Is Gormenghast really all that wonderful? I see many people talking about it here. I caught a film version on BBC America one night and my impression was just that he ripped pieces of most of the well known fairy tales and fiction and threw it all together. ?
 

ZaPhOd

Super Moderator
Comics...

Well shucks.. I have around 80 Groo comics, and the ENTIRE Warlord series featuring artwork by Mike Grell. Incidentally, he also did Green Arrow The longbow Hunters and the new series. Of course this is all way back when....
 

finn17

New member
Originally posted by darthfoley
Is Gormenghast really all that wonderful? I see many people talking about it here. I caught a film version on BBC America one night and my impression was just that he ripped pieces of most of the well known fairy tales and fiction and threw it all together. ?

You do need to read the book itself. There is very little action and it is extremely hard to describe the actual content of the book. I would say it represents the finest example of creative use of the English language. The only way I have been able to describe it to people is to say that Peake\'s use of descriptive language triggers images in the mind, rather like watching a video. It does in mine at least. And without pharmaceutical assistance!
 

supervike

Super Moderator
just fun reading

I recently started reading the Warhammer series of books \"Trollslayer\"\"dragonslayer\"\"somethingslayer\"...etc.

Sure they are mindless, predictable, and sometimes plotless, but they are darn fun to read. Perfect for light summer reading.

They remind me of the old Conan novels, lots of swordplay and action.
 

Mngwa

New member
I\'ve read at least something by 95% of the authors mentioned so far, I read almost exclusively fantasy as far as fiction goes. Moorcock, Howard, Lieber and Saberhagen are all classic, I\'ll never get rid of my books by any of these authors. I\'m surprised nobody\'s mentioned Andre Norton, Piers Anthony, or Orson Scott Card. My favorite series is probably the Chronicles of the Black Company by Glen Cook. They mix sorcery with a griitty, down-to-earth realism that pulls you right into the story, with a definite dark streak of humor.
 
T

ten-to-one

Guest
Don\'t think Paul Kearney has been mentioned? Anyone else read his Monarchies of God series? A right rollicking good read on an epic scale. I have yet to read the last book of the five, so don\'t spoil it for me guys!
Guy Gavriel Kay \"Tigana\" and Lions of Al-Rassan\". Robin Hobb\'s \"Assassin\" and \"Liveship Trader\" series......
But, every few years or so you just gotta go back and read the Silmarillion and LOTR again, right?
 

ZaPhOd

Super Moderator
Moorcock

Well the last Elric book was \"The Dreamthief\'s Daughter\" featuring a crossover between Elric and von Bek, and spanning several planes... Very cool to see both team up against nazis in WWII germany for instance :D
 
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Sturmhalo

Guest
Originally posted by darthfoley

Is Gormenghast really all that wonderful? I see many people talking about it here. I caught a film version on BBC America one night and my impression was just that he ripped pieces of most of the well known fairy tales and fiction and threw it all together. ?

Ah... the good old Beeb. They know how to take a set of incredible stories and reduce them down to a pile of old shite don\'t they!? Even the excessively lavish cast was a waste of everyones time and money.

The third book is definately a bit dodgy in places (Titus Alone). Mind you, Peake never actually finished it before he died so it was cobbled together from what he\'d managed to write before his demise.
 

Impernouncable

New member
Gormenghast is a very peculiar series. I hated it when I was 14. I read all three of them anyway, it was a phase. I reread the first book a couple years ago though and I must say that it\'s brilliant. I would suggest that you read over a couple chapters and if you don\'t care for the style put it away for a decade. ;)
 

darthfoley

Active member
I like the idea of a reading investment, something that I might not care for today but will be great in a few years. I\'ll have to check it out. :)
 

finn17

New member
Originally posted by Sturmhalo

Ah... the good old Beeb. They know how to take a set of incredible stories and reduce them down to a pile of old shite don\'t they!? Even the excessively lavish cast was a waste of everyones time and money.

Spot on! I thought the programme stank too.
Gormenghast holds a veryspecial place in my heart. I\'ve just remembered that I wrote an analysis of the relationship between Irma Prunesquallor and the Headmaster for the interpersonal relationships module of psychology degree:flip: You can get away with anything if you dress it up nicely:bouncy:
 

Mngwa

New member
Originally posted by ZaPhOd
Well the last Elric book was \"The Dreamthief\'s Daughter\" featuring a crossover between Elric and von Bek, and spanning several planes... Very cool to see both team up against nazis in WWII germany for instance :D

I\'m reading \"The Dreamthief\'s Daughter\" now, a couple of chapters into it and its shaping up real nicely. Until finished, I still have to say \"The Revenge of the Rose\" is my favorite Elric book, and the Chronicles of Castle Brass are my favorite Moorcock work. I think the thing that keeps me attracted to Moorcock is the freshness of his novels. You would think that simple variations of a theme, the Eternal Champion, would rather quickly become stale and repetitive, but they don\'t. The guy has a phenomenal imagination!
 
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Sturmhalo

Guest
Originally posted by finn17
Spot on! I thought the programme stank too.
Gormenghast holds a veryspecial place in my heart.


Yeah, it\'s one of those things I guess. It\'s not really fantasy in the sword and sorcery sense though. I think it\'s a very \'English\' piece of writing, and all the peculiarities that go with it are just wonderful. For example the way Peake comes up with characters names. Almost every word has been carefully selected to spark some sort of itense imagery, in some cases the word is irrelevent and it\'s just the sound that is needed to spark that imagery or feeling.

It\'s because the stories were just so intense and incredible in every way that I\'ve been unable to read fiction ever since! You just can\'t follow up something like that with the next Pratchett or some piece of fantasy cheese!

Unfortunately when the Beeb decided to make their little TV film they just didn\'t get it right. It\'s not the kind of story that can be handled lightly, and to cut vast swathes of the story out just to produce a few hours film doesn\'t do it justice. As a piece of literature it deserves to be up there with the greats of 20th century writing, but the Beeb probably left viewers who hadn\'t read the books thinking that it was a load of crap written by an incompetent! Loading the cast with every damn celebrity they could didn\'t help matters either. It just became a \'watch for the stars\' type film. Mind you, some were hardly what you\'d call stars (C-grade soap actors in some cases - Dot from Eastenders!). Best bit is though, is that I paid for that piece of crap along with all the other licence payers. I\'ve effectively been forced to pay for something that ruins something I dearly loved! :mad:
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Sturmhalo:
Ah... the good old Beeb. They know how to take a set of incredible stories and reduce them down to a pile of old shite don\'t they!?

Typically the BBC regard SF as the gutter end of the market when in fact SF (or SciFi to them) demands a level of intelligence far above the mindless trash doled out in garbage like Eastenders (a boring, dismal soap for those outside the UK)

The only piece that worked both from the book to the screen was Niel Gaiman\'s \'Neverwhere\'. But I have a sneeking suspicion that the book was done from the screen play, I hope I\'m wrong on that.

As for reading, I\'ve tried various Moorcock books and never found the enjoyment that others seem to get out of them. I\'m about to start reading another William Gibson book and after that probably one of the Gotrek & Felix novels. I like to vary my reading content. (try Mary Gentle\'s \"GRUNTS\" lol then her \"GOLDEN WITCHBREED\")

Within the last 2-3 weeks I\'ve hit lucky on the SciFi channel and been watching \'Firefly\', dark gritty and plausible. Even if it is just like a western in space.
 
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Sturmhalo

Guest
Originally posted by Dragonsreach
As for reading, I\'ve tried various Moorcock books and never found the enjoyment that others seem to get out of them.

I really enjoyed the Elric saga and the two sets of books about Hawkmoon as well, but that was over 10 years ago! I guess a lot of Moorcock\'s older novels are perhaps a bit dated these days. I was tempted a little while back to perhaps buy the big consolidated books that contain all the stories for a particular Eternal Champion, but I never bothered in the end.

:D
 

Beelzebrush

Active member
It\'s interesting how Gormenghast is considered a classic, not just in a fantasy vein. There seems to be a niche for that type of writing from Britain and all could be considered classics in a literary sense ie... The Narnia books by CS Lewis, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carol etc... not high fantasy but fantasy nonetheless and they stand the test of time..

Yeah.. The BBCs adaptation of Gormenghast was poor
 
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