Finecast & Wayland

[Jedrock777]

Maybe they were just frustrated and wanted to vent? Probably not the best idea from a PR standpoint but...sometime you gotta vent.

 

[RuneBrush]

I'm guessing that they're trying to explain to there customers why they're not going to stock Finecast currently. Doing it like this is just stating the facts from their perspective - yes it is critical, but they're not actually slagging GW off, just stating the fact that they're not prepared to sell Finecast with a 50%+ imperfection rate.

Although I knew this would likely get into a GW bashing, I just thought it was curious (and positive) that companies are prepared to put their foot down and say "this isn't acceptable".

I would class myself a GW follower - I have an active WD sub, a room full of GW products, a garage full of WD back issues and my Games Day ticket on my fridge. However I don't think it's acceptable that (if I had the spare cash) I should have to trawl through a load of blisters to find a Finecast miniature without flaws. I'm prepared to do it for something organic (fruit & veg or plants) but why should I have to do it for something that *should* be almost perfect? I've gone beyond the point of caring about the manufacturing process, cost or politics, if I buy something I am within my rights to expect to get it home and when I open it find it is fit for purpose. Nobody would accept it if they brought home a pack of Mr Kipling's Bakewell Tarts and found one had pink icing instead of white, two were missing cherries and one had a bite out of it would they?

 

[Chern Ann]

I'm guessing that they're trying to explain to there customers why they're not going to stock Finecast currently. Doing it like this is just stating the facts from their perspective - yes it is critical, but they're not actually slagging GW off, just stating the fact that they're not prepared to sell Finecast with a 50%+ imperfection rate.

Although I knew this would likely get into a GW bashing, I just thought it was curious (and positive) that companies are prepared to put their foot down and say "this isn't acceptable".

I would class myself a GW follower - I have an active WD sub, a room full of GW products, a garage full of WD back issues and my Games Day ticket on my fridge. However I don't think it's acceptable that (if I had the spare cash) I should have to trawl through a load of blisters to find a Finecast miniature without flaws. I'm prepared to do it for something organic (fruit & veg or plants) but why should I have to do it for something that *should* be almost perfect? I've gone beyond the point of caring about the manufacturing process, cost or politics, if I buy something I am within my rights to expect to get it home and when I open it find it is fit for purpose. Nobody would accept it if they brought home a pack of Mr Kipling's Bakewell Tarts and found one had pink icing instead of white, two were missing cherries and one had a bite out of it would they?

Actually, what they did went above and beyond what was necessary. Showing the actual defects and stating the defect rate instead of saying, we are not stocking Finecast at this time and hope to do so soon, full stop, or even, we are not stocking Finecast at this time due to quality issues with the stock received and hope to do so soon, was all that was needed. Doing the whole show and tell about how crap the product is (albeit true) does not benefit their relationship with GW at all, and i don't see how it adds anything to the above two statements from their customer's perspective.

 

[Jedrock777]

I totally agree with you Runebrush. It is unacceptable that these pieces are coming out like this. Great that they will replace them, or let you look for a good one, but we shouldn't have to do this. The excuse I heard was that they were rushing them out to fill all the orders. They even say on their website that "due to high demand you can only buy three blah blah blah" or something to that effect. I think they didn't perfect the process, had a deadline, and are pooping these out a quickly as they can. I emphasize the word poop.

 

[noneedforaname]

Good question...and one I didn't know the answer to so, a little delving tells me that it only affects WH Smith and that it should still be available from other outlets. Smiths stopped stocking it a couple of issues back.

It happened because WHSmiths weren't selling enough copies to make it worthwhile without them charging GW more for the privilege, akin to vanity publishing if you will.

 

[finn17]

It happened because WHSmiths weren't selling enough copies to make it worthwhile without them charging GW more for the privilege, akin to vanity publishing if you will.

Ah right, thanks for that

Does seem a bit strange though as my WH Smiths still stocks lots of marginal interest magazines, several to do with wargaming. I guess I have a personal interest as I first got into this hobby way, way back when the artwork on a very early copy of White Dwarf caught my eye in WH Smiths. Games Workshop have had thousands out of me since then....

 

[crystella333]

It happened because WHSmiths weren't selling enough copies to make it worthwhile without them charging GW more for the privilege, akin to vanity publishing if you will.

Aye that kind of sell I can understand
One of the reasons I can never find the books I want when they are released, got to order them or wait afew months for them to finally get them into stock. That is in Smiths and Waterstones

 

[necron2.0]

Actually, what they did went above and beyond what was necessary.

I'm actually curious if they did it partially because they're grossed out. Three of the "defects" they've shown are for hairs in the packaging, and those shown in the second and third images down on the left look like pubes to me.

 

[In Chigh P.I.]

.......and those shown in the second and third images down on the left look like pubes to me.

Nah, those are hobbit hairs. GW employ them to pack up the blisters. They work cheap; a few dodgy boxes of Mr Kipling's Bakewell Tarts for a days work is enough for them...

 

[Dragonsreach]

I cannot even understand the transition to Resin from metal.
I could IF it meant Speciality/True Limited Edition Fresh sculpted pieces. Hell I might even have been (easily) tempted to buy some.
BUT the re-cycling of existing model sculpts and the GROSS price hike, coupled with the CEO's patronising and hypocritical letter, has meant I've given GW the "Agincourt Salute".
The 'higher costs' of metal was being absorbed by the consumer, not the manufacturer, as evidence by the continual rise of their products.
And yet the cost per Kilo Ingot for metal has recently come down as well.
Again from a smaller manufacturer getting charged £23 per Kilo, which worked out at a single part 28mm mini as £0.48p per unit by weight. (Larger and multipart figure costing more obviously)
The ONLY reason for the shift has to be bigger profit margin.
HELL YES!

..... a failure rate of anything more than 2-3% should be unheard of. 50% is utterly disgusting.
ELONEX Computers is a case in point.
Former supplier, quality control far below their ability to supply, inability to correct faults and or supply consistant replacement parts = Company Bust

Unfortunately, (or maybe fortunately) this tactic is biting them on their collective asses right now. I've seen more dyed in the wool GW fans abandoning ship than ever before. What a fiasco.
Oi Fiasco's usually a damn good show (Leeds Royal Armoury End of October)

I have too echo Chern's 'concern's' about Waylands games publicising their dissatisfaction so publically, but given how 'forcefully' GW are treating some of the independant suppliers in the UK at the moment it may be a backlash against some of their methods.

 

[freakinacage]

i agree with cherns points to. but also come to the conclusion of 'screw them'. lets hope they aren't just cutting off their nose to spite their face

 

[Talion]

Little off point - The 'Storm of Magic' stuff is now to pre-order and the wizards are plastic not Finecast......why??

I think DR said something that I think may be the case.....I think Finecast is a interim ploy to stop the production of metal whilst moving fully to plastics, but keep th money rolling in.

Otherwise why would you create some Character minis in finecast and then some in plastics. The finecast range hasn't increased since the initial roll-out......I think there's strange goings on in GW head office at the moment.

 

[finn17]

I have too echo Chern's 'concern's' about Waylands games publicising their dissatisfaction so publically, but given how 'forcefully' GW are treating some of the independant suppliers in the UK at the moment it may be a backlash against some of their methods.

I agree.

It's a two-way street and its the duty of sellers to look after their customers, not the other way round. GW seem to think that they are doing their customers 'a favour' by deigning to supply them with their goods.

 

[noneedforaname]

Little off point - The 'Storm of Magic' stuff is now to pre-order and the wizards are plastic not Finecast......why??

I think DR said something that I think may be the case.....I think Finecast is a interim ploy to stop the production of metal whilst moving fully to plastics, but keep th money rolling in.

Otherwise why would you create some Character minis in finecast and then some in plastics. The finecast range hasn't increased since the initial roll-out......I think there's strange goings on in GW head office at the moment.

Originally there were going to be approx 100 metal lines re-released into failcast a month, the second wave was delayed due to the "production issues" they are undergoing.

And yes I'm almost certain that failcast will prove to be a stop gap.

 

[supervike]

I agree.

It's a two-way street and its the duty of sellers to look after their customers, not the other way round. GW seem to think that they are doing their customers 'a favour' by deigning to supply them with their goods.

But in a way, they are. If Wayland pulls in more customers because of stocking GW, that's money in their pocket.

I completely understand Wayland's being upset with the quality, and being a bit bitter about how GW has treated them of late, but I think they should have taken a slight pause before posting what they did. Just for their sake alone. GW has made their own bed, so I've no pity there, but it just seems to me that Wayland is treading on thin ice.

 

[WaylandGames]

Guys its Rich, owner of Wayland here.

I have posted on a few threads on other fora about this situation.

This has nothing to do with any trade terms disagreement with GW whatsoever. It is not a dig at GW, it is an explanation to our customers as to why we are refunding and cancelling orders of theirs and to prospective customers to explain why we are not stocking the new ranges from GW currently. We have an obligation in inform them both legally and morally and to have sent emails etc would still have meant the information was posted all over the internet. By making the statement on our site and Facebook and nowhere else we remained in control of the information released.

Chern, this is not airing dirty laundry. there has been extensive and very detailed communication with GW over the last few weeks. We informed them that we had an obligation to make this statement. Why the pics.. as you will already see there are those that would doubt the veracity of the information we have provided and so we shared a small part of the data we painstakingly collated at the request of GW.

This decision has cost us a significant amount of money both attached to the effort to collate and catalogue and in the lost profits from sales so far. Until we are satisfied with the improvements in quality we will no doubt see moving forwards we will hold off restocking Finecast.

Just to add, GW have shared their average return/failure level of Finecast and ours is far higher. They also explictally asked us not to share the detail. We invited them to visit and inspect the deliveries and they declined to do so, we therefore assumed they trust our judgement in our QC process.

 

[Chern Ann]

Thanks for sharing the background Rich, I hope it works out well between yourselves and GW.

 

[freakinacage]

cool, good to hear from the man himself!

 

[DVS Design]

I realize you are right about this, they aren't using steel molds. I know this because I found a tiny piece of silicone stuck to my Finecast piece! But why is it cheaper? Doesn't non-vulcanized RTV silicon degrade after 20-30 pulls?

In the long run they will about brake even there maybe a little more. They go through molds a bit faster but the rubber and process are a little cheaper then the vulcanized.

The cost of shipping is the largest area they are saving with resin. As well as the material cost for the models now. Yes you loss some to QC when you have a bad batch but over all you are still getting allot more models for the same production cost. Even in a worst case scenario with a really bad casting batch you are braking even on the cost. In the long run if it was not giving a better profit GW would not have switched that's the simple fact of business on that scale.

The fact that as a employee when they still offered full bitz service you could by your models as bitz at 80% off and they where still making some money off that sale should give you a idea of the profit margin. Also as stated in previous threads the amount of sales have gone down the last couple years but profits have continued to go up. That is a direct result of the annual prise raising each year no mater what.

 

[In Chigh P.I.]

+1 Wayland, get the f****rs 'telt!!