Hello everyone,
So first, I will say I’m not a good sculptor…probably not that far from passable…so my review is NOT good for professionals, etc. This I will discuss at the end. I worked with pro-create over the past 1.5 hours or so, so this is an early review of it. I used a standard near 50:50 ratio. This will be a quick review of Green stuff, pro-create, and apoxysculpt.
*** Stickyness - seeing how my other nickname online is StarFyreXXX (when StarFyre is taken), discussing stickyness and procreate in the same paragraph is a tad risky
hehe
Anyways, using tools ranging from a lot of water on them to just a quick lick thru lips, I find that pro-create did NOT stick at all to my tools. To itself, yes, it grabs on pretty damn well though. In this regard, it appears much easier to use than GS. However, when using my bare hands, that were dry, it did feel about the same as GS, so maybe the reaction to water is just a bit better with Procreate, hence wet tools work very well.
Aves apoxysculpt though, with a bit of water is fine but if you add a bit too much water, you are done. This stuff turns to like a cream and almost disintegrates off anything it’s sticking too. You gotta be very careful water wise with that stuff. Apoxysculpt sticks to dry stuff (anything damnit!!!) but with a bit of water, is VERY easy to work with. However, a bit too much water and small parts won’t even stick to other apoxysculpt….so you really gotta be careful.
Aves is the softest of them, but as far as I can tell, dries the hardest.
OVERALL - I would say PS is prob the best. GS is too damn sticky even with some slightly wet tools, and apoxysculpt has to have a perfect ratio of water or smaller parts of it become almost unuseable. Large areas are fine though but this is a big weakness IMHO as it seems to restrict fine detail for most people (see my comments at the very bottom)
*** smoothyness – I tried to smoothen a ball with 4 methods, ranging below:
Bare hands (no gloves) – I tried this but even with wet fingers, managed to find tons of finger lines in it (imagine prints, streaked across surface) and I had issues to get rid of them. (as a note, GS is the same way and doesn’t smoothen too well with bare hands. On other hand, aves apoxysculpt smoothens VERY well with fingers/water with no gloves and even better with a clay shaper)
Rubber clay shaper - PS once wet, smoothened fairly easily..better than GS but not as good as apoxysculpt
GW tool (steel I believe) – once wet, smoothened easily BUT due to small shape, unless careful, leaves lines/carve marks (same with all 3)
Hands with gloves – was able to smoothen it fairly easily but clayshaper seemed best overall results after a few strokes (same with all 3)
OVERALL - apoxysculpt is the best IMHO for this. Then PC, then GS.
*** Useability – this is probably my bias. I find it just like GS. As an epoxy (glue), it sticks to itself very damn well, so unless you wait for time or mix it with less sticky part, what happens is, when trying to work on an area, dragging a tool will cause pull on the areas around it. THis gives an effect like pulling gum out of your mouth while holding on with the teeth. It cause my mouth area to affect the eye area on a face i was trying to do. Once I let it sit for a while and then tried, this wasn’t as bad, but I find it very much like GS so don’t see that much difference in using it.
It seems just like GS except that it smoothens very easily and doesn’t seem to like water much and easily stays off tools. However, unlike Aves Apoxysculpt, excess water doesn’t cause it to like disintegrate or become runny like a cream. I would say it’s VERY much like GS so if you like GS, this will be even better.
After about 40 minutes of sitting there, I tried working with it again. It appears like GS to me. Tougher, takes hard edges VERY well, even at 50:50 ratio so I imagine more hardener would do this much sooner..prob 20 minute time frame. However, smoothing became an issue. General smoothing was the same, very easy with a wet clayshaper (rubber) BUT if there were any cracks/creases that were more pronounced, the clayshaper and water didn’t help much. Instead, I had to dab it with a GW tool a bit to flatten it a bit more then reshape area a bit with clayshaper. I then began to keep running clay shaper over another similar area. It did smoothen it, but still, a bit of the crease/crack was showing. What this appears to me as, once harder, it’s more and more like GS.
I will try and sand it tomorrow once it’s hardened and add to this to see how it is…
Apoxysculpt I find the easiest to use for large muscles, etc but finer detail NO. It can be done as examples at some sites show, but this is where my comments later will fill in the reasons IMHO. PC should be the best for fine detail since it can be smoothend easier and won’t stick to tools as easily as GS but either should be fine really I guess, based on preference.
As mentioned, PC is great for hard edges once it\'s a bit harder, even more so than GS it appears. Apoxysculpt I have managed hard edges at any time but that is due to more careful use of tools than the strength of the stuff itself. Once it hardens a bit, it\'s a bit better than GS...about the same as PC.
OVERALL - for general shapes, apoxysculpt, for finer detail, PC (since hard edges seemed abit easier)
A note, I have used brown stuff only once, but it made hard edges even easier It appears BUT it hardened faster and had a very brittle dry feel to it and the shape i made broke and crumbled in my hands..so I hate Brown stuff
*** cost – the amount I got from lance & laser was about the same as GW gives it it’s own branded GS. This is NOT good. I get GS at 9 ft for about $26 USD. So this small amount of pro-create is shameful. (IMHO…and considering how I work for a bank and make a living causing society to bleed and suffer financially, my comment here is quite harsh) Apoxysculpt is the cheapest due to the amount you get….good for large stuff and great if mixed with GS.
overall - apoxysculpt
*** ratios - apoxy sculpt SUCKS for this damnit. I mixed some where the ratio was not 50:50...it may have been 60:40 or so..guess what? it never hardened. It got close but never perfectly and with a bit of strength, I was able to gouge out all the area of clay. THis really is stupid. It appears it is easy to work with BUT needs to be mixed as close to 50:50 as possible.
GS and PC appear to be similar so I assume ratios work as per the package instructions. I have tried ratios with GS but not PC so won\'t say much here, but I think they work just fine.
OVERALL - GS/PC tie
*** Armature needs - NONE. SInce this stuff is all super epoxy binary glues, they stick to itself and will then harden, allowing you to add more stuff on later. THen that will harden, etc.
You truly only need an armature if you use stuff like fimo or sculpey BUT i think armature helps you realize the actual shape/size, etc....so I would suggest it. Speak to better sculptors/painters first and c what they think. I know nothing
OVERALL - doesn\'t matter for an armature
********
My general comments… I know this review isn’t that great. My experience with sculpting isn’t detailed enough to make a good opinion for most of you and I imagine most people (the better painters/sculptors will ignore me anyways).
I find this type of product very difficult for me to use. I can’t seem to use GS well except for gap filling and very limited details.
The products I have are:
Green stuff ( a damn lot of it), Aves Apoxysculpt (also a lot of it), 1 small packet of Pro-Create, a box of Super sculpey and a box of super sculpey firm.
What I should say which is NOT biased since I am sure this is true… a good artist can use anything. Example, if in school you learned with FIMO and apoxysculpt, I am sure you would be amazing with it, even for fine detail, while most say fine detail, GS is better.
Consequently, professionals such as Dragon Forge Design, Allan C, etc IMHO could use GS very easily as they know how to deal with it’s nuances (ie. The time to let it sit, time to use it, the mixtures, etc). For me, this is a problem....
I don’t want to sit there and wait for the time to use it. Considering the planning time, and how I want to do a 2nd head for a current sculpture, and I have thrown out a skeletal armature to make a new one, any more time spent is killing me!
For a general user, like those at most GW stores, I’m not sure if pro-create helps much more than GS does. I do like it more than GS overall, but the cost would keep me getting the bulk GS for gap filling/armature support needs.
For large stone work/round muscles, apoxysculpt is still my choice.
Overall, I am biased towards a mix of super sculpey and super sculpey firm since there is no drying time in air…have to bake it, so it allows me to work at my pace and get better results.
I think, more and more people who aren’t as good artists would get better results with a product that needs to be baked instead, since they can work as needed and not feel restricted to the product drying time.
That said, I do still use GS in my regular sculpting project now, but that is after the main, harder part is done with super sculpey and baked. I do think for small fine details GS/PC is great.
But for those of us who aren’t as good and need to learn and also either don’t have as much time or confidence in abilities, I don’t know is Pro-create is the next best thing since sex (uhm..that should be sliced bread, right?) hehe
Sorry, I am in a bit of a rush…so this may sound very broken..but I hope people understand it and find it useful.
Please, get a packet of Procreate though, and try for yourself. For me, I will stick with other products instead for most of my work and save it for very specialized fine detail work (teeth, eye lids, nostrils, etc) …
Regards,
Sanjay
So first, I will say I’m not a good sculptor…probably not that far from passable…so my review is NOT good for professionals, etc. This I will discuss at the end. I worked with pro-create over the past 1.5 hours or so, so this is an early review of it. I used a standard near 50:50 ratio. This will be a quick review of Green stuff, pro-create, and apoxysculpt.
*** Stickyness - seeing how my other nickname online is StarFyreXXX (when StarFyre is taken), discussing stickyness and procreate in the same paragraph is a tad risky
heheAnyways, using tools ranging from a lot of water on them to just a quick lick thru lips, I find that pro-create did NOT stick at all to my tools. To itself, yes, it grabs on pretty damn well though. In this regard, it appears much easier to use than GS. However, when using my bare hands, that were dry, it did feel about the same as GS, so maybe the reaction to water is just a bit better with Procreate, hence wet tools work very well.
Aves apoxysculpt though, with a bit of water is fine but if you add a bit too much water, you are done. This stuff turns to like a cream and almost disintegrates off anything it’s sticking too. You gotta be very careful water wise with that stuff. Apoxysculpt sticks to dry stuff (anything damnit!!!) but with a bit of water, is VERY easy to work with. However, a bit too much water and small parts won’t even stick to other apoxysculpt….so you really gotta be careful.
Aves is the softest of them, but as far as I can tell, dries the hardest.
OVERALL - I would say PS is prob the best. GS is too damn sticky even with some slightly wet tools, and apoxysculpt has to have a perfect ratio of water or smaller parts of it become almost unuseable. Large areas are fine though but this is a big weakness IMHO as it seems to restrict fine detail for most people (see my comments at the very bottom)
*** smoothyness – I tried to smoothen a ball with 4 methods, ranging below:
Bare hands (no gloves) – I tried this but even with wet fingers, managed to find tons of finger lines in it (imagine prints, streaked across surface) and I had issues to get rid of them. (as a note, GS is the same way and doesn’t smoothen too well with bare hands. On other hand, aves apoxysculpt smoothens VERY well with fingers/water with no gloves and even better with a clay shaper)
Rubber clay shaper - PS once wet, smoothened fairly easily..better than GS but not as good as apoxysculpt
GW tool (steel I believe) – once wet, smoothened easily BUT due to small shape, unless careful, leaves lines/carve marks (same with all 3)
Hands with gloves – was able to smoothen it fairly easily but clayshaper seemed best overall results after a few strokes (same with all 3)
OVERALL - apoxysculpt is the best IMHO for this. Then PC, then GS.
*** Useability – this is probably my bias. I find it just like GS. As an epoxy (glue), it sticks to itself very damn well, so unless you wait for time or mix it with less sticky part, what happens is, when trying to work on an area, dragging a tool will cause pull on the areas around it. THis gives an effect like pulling gum out of your mouth while holding on with the teeth. It cause my mouth area to affect the eye area on a face i was trying to do. Once I let it sit for a while and then tried, this wasn’t as bad, but I find it very much like GS so don’t see that much difference in using it.
It seems just like GS except that it smoothens very easily and doesn’t seem to like water much and easily stays off tools. However, unlike Aves Apoxysculpt, excess water doesn’t cause it to like disintegrate or become runny like a cream. I would say it’s VERY much like GS so if you like GS, this will be even better.
After about 40 minutes of sitting there, I tried working with it again. It appears like GS to me. Tougher, takes hard edges VERY well, even at 50:50 ratio so I imagine more hardener would do this much sooner..prob 20 minute time frame. However, smoothing became an issue. General smoothing was the same, very easy with a wet clayshaper (rubber) BUT if there were any cracks/creases that were more pronounced, the clayshaper and water didn’t help much. Instead, I had to dab it with a GW tool a bit to flatten it a bit more then reshape area a bit with clayshaper. I then began to keep running clay shaper over another similar area. It did smoothen it, but still, a bit of the crease/crack was showing. What this appears to me as, once harder, it’s more and more like GS.
I will try and sand it tomorrow once it’s hardened and add to this to see how it is…
Apoxysculpt I find the easiest to use for large muscles, etc but finer detail NO. It can be done as examples at some sites show, but this is where my comments later will fill in the reasons IMHO. PC should be the best for fine detail since it can be smoothend easier and won’t stick to tools as easily as GS but either should be fine really I guess, based on preference.
As mentioned, PC is great for hard edges once it\'s a bit harder, even more so than GS it appears. Apoxysculpt I have managed hard edges at any time but that is due to more careful use of tools than the strength of the stuff itself. Once it hardens a bit, it\'s a bit better than GS...about the same as PC.
OVERALL - for general shapes, apoxysculpt, for finer detail, PC (since hard edges seemed abit easier)
A note, I have used brown stuff only once, but it made hard edges even easier It appears BUT it hardened faster and had a very brittle dry feel to it and the shape i made broke and crumbled in my hands..so I hate Brown stuff
*** cost – the amount I got from lance & laser was about the same as GW gives it it’s own branded GS. This is NOT good. I get GS at 9 ft for about $26 USD. So this small amount of pro-create is shameful. (IMHO…and considering how I work for a bank and make a living causing society to bleed and suffer financially, my comment here is quite harsh) Apoxysculpt is the cheapest due to the amount you get….good for large stuff and great if mixed with GS.
overall - apoxysculpt
*** ratios - apoxy sculpt SUCKS for this damnit. I mixed some where the ratio was not 50:50...it may have been 60:40 or so..guess what? it never hardened. It got close but never perfectly and with a bit of strength, I was able to gouge out all the area of clay. THis really is stupid. It appears it is easy to work with BUT needs to be mixed as close to 50:50 as possible.
GS and PC appear to be similar so I assume ratios work as per the package instructions. I have tried ratios with GS but not PC so won\'t say much here, but I think they work just fine.
OVERALL - GS/PC tie
*** Armature needs - NONE. SInce this stuff is all super epoxy binary glues, they stick to itself and will then harden, allowing you to add more stuff on later. THen that will harden, etc.
You truly only need an armature if you use stuff like fimo or sculpey BUT i think armature helps you realize the actual shape/size, etc....so I would suggest it. Speak to better sculptors/painters first and c what they think. I know nothing
OVERALL - doesn\'t matter for an armature
********
My general comments… I know this review isn’t that great. My experience with sculpting isn’t detailed enough to make a good opinion for most of you and I imagine most people (the better painters/sculptors will ignore me anyways).
I find this type of product very difficult for me to use. I can’t seem to use GS well except for gap filling and very limited details.
The products I have are:
Green stuff ( a damn lot of it), Aves Apoxysculpt (also a lot of it), 1 small packet of Pro-Create, a box of Super sculpey and a box of super sculpey firm.
What I should say which is NOT biased since I am sure this is true… a good artist can use anything. Example, if in school you learned with FIMO and apoxysculpt, I am sure you would be amazing with it, even for fine detail, while most say fine detail, GS is better.
Consequently, professionals such as Dragon Forge Design, Allan C, etc IMHO could use GS very easily as they know how to deal with it’s nuances (ie. The time to let it sit, time to use it, the mixtures, etc). For me, this is a problem....
I don’t want to sit there and wait for the time to use it. Considering the planning time, and how I want to do a 2nd head for a current sculpture, and I have thrown out a skeletal armature to make a new one, any more time spent is killing me!
For a general user, like those at most GW stores, I’m not sure if pro-create helps much more than GS does. I do like it more than GS overall, but the cost would keep me getting the bulk GS for gap filling/armature support needs.
For large stone work/round muscles, apoxysculpt is still my choice.
Overall, I am biased towards a mix of super sculpey and super sculpey firm since there is no drying time in air…have to bake it, so it allows me to work at my pace and get better results.
I think, more and more people who aren’t as good artists would get better results with a product that needs to be baked instead, since they can work as needed and not feel restricted to the product drying time.
That said, I do still use GS in my regular sculpting project now, but that is after the main, harder part is done with super sculpey and baked. I do think for small fine details GS/PC is great.
But for those of us who aren’t as good and need to learn and also either don’t have as much time or confidence in abilities, I don’t know is Pro-create is the next best thing since sex
(uhm..that should be sliced bread, right?) heheSorry, I am in a bit of a rush…so this may sound very broken..but I hope people understand it and find it useful.
Please, get a packet of Procreate though, and try for yourself. For me, I will stick with other products instead for most of my work and save it for very specialized fine detail work (teeth, eye lids, nostrils, etc) …
Regards,
Sanjay
