flesh recipies with water based oils?

[airhead]

I broke down and bought a starter set of the water based oils (W&N). Probably none of the paints are useful for flesh

So before I sink another ton of money into them, can someone please tell me the paints I need to pick up?

Also, do I need the special thinner? It looks like it will add to the open time of the paints as opposed to water?

Hints, tips & tricks learned while using this stuff are greatly appriciated.

(I\'ve been to the aces of iron site.)

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Not sure about water based oils, but the colors I have found good for flesh are -

nice healthy flesh - white and a touch of deep orange. Shade with a wash of deep cad red.

more of a normal flesh - white a touch of brown or rust and shade with those same colors.

 

[Einion]

Did you get these to try oils, but without the smelly spirits to thin them?

Originally posted by airhead
I broke down and bought a starter set of the water based oils (W&N).

Water-miscible oils - important distinction, since they barely mix with water. They\'re based on linseed oil and have just been modified to allow it to mix, just, with normal water.

Originally posted by airhead
Probably none of the paints are useful for flesh

Caucasian skintones are basically a scarlet or orange-red tint so any yellow and red can be used as a starting point, pretty much.

My personal preference for a basis for skintones in artists\' pigments is Yellow Ochre and Cad Red Light, neutralised with a little blue (mixed with white of course). Skintones are a lot more complex than just that\'ll provide of course that but for something of the scale of minis a couple of basic mixes is probably all that\'s required - a touch more red and no blue for the highlight mix, less white for the basic shade and then simply add brown and/or grey for the deep shadows.

If you want to delve into this deeper I highly recommend one of John Sanden\'s how-to books.

Originally posted by airhead
Also, do I need the special thinner?

No.

Originally posted by airhead
Hints, tips & tricks learned while using this stuff are greatly appriciated.

If you decide to stick to them there\'s a lot of info online from folks asking for tips after having bought a set and diving in.

FWIW they\'re not quite as good as normal oils, in a couple of ways, one of which is in pigment levels (so important when we\'re painting as thinly as we do). Soaking out excess oil on card stock to begin with can help, as it does with any cheaper brand.

Einion

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by Einion
Did you get these to try oils, but without the smelly spirits to thin them?

Basicly true. I\'ve seen some of the larger minis done with oils by some of the much-better-painters-than-me, and wanted to stick my toe into the water.

W&N\'s looked like a way to do that without having to spend as much again on various thinners and cleaners and new brushes. (which I felt I got away from when I came back to painting with acrylics instead of enamels.).

I laid down a basic tone last night on a Reaper Sophie (54mm) and was well pleased with what I\'ve got so far.

Found the old thread here

Thanks for all the help.

 

[airhead]

Ok, I was following the faces of iron recipe and ended up with a rather green tint. Not to mention that she was also on the darkish side (think George Hamilton = fake bake but greenish).

 

[Avelorn]

Originally posted by airhead
Ok, I was following the faces of iron recipe and ended up with a rather green tint. Not to mention that she was also on the darkish side (think George Hamilton = fake bake but greenish).

Hum. From your description I really want a wip of that.

I just bought myself some oils as well for a bust I\'m going to do. But also that I am starting out on regular canvas work and see how different mediums work.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by airhead
Ok, I was following the faces of iron recipe and ended up with a rather green tint.

This illustrates how tricky it can be following mixing instructions when the exact version of some paints can be so important.

Assuming the recipe is right to begin with one can follow it accurately and still end up with a profoundly different colour, in many different ways. For a flesh mix it could be yellower, pinker, redder, more orange, greener, too dark, too light...

Since it\'s too dark obviously add more white. It may be that it\'s actually green (as opposed to just apparently so, like Asian skintones can often be) but regardless adding a little more red should help.

I\'d try mixing a tint of the red, to lighter than the mix is currently, and blending the two together.

Einion

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by Einion
I\'d try mixing a tint of the red, to lighter than the mix is currently, and blending the two together.

Einion

That is what I was thinking of trying tonight, a very lite pink glaze.

Zinc White or Titanium White? I\'m thinking Zinc for the transparency?

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by airhead
I\'m thinking Zinc for the transparency?

If you\'re glazing it, yes. But I wouldn\'t glaze this kind of thing personally - very hard to compensate for an overall colour cast with a simple glaze.

The culprit is very likely to be the Raw Umber, which is actually not often used by professional portraitists or figure painters. Personally I would avoid it like the plague in normal flesh mixes.

Let me be blunt here, and apologies to the author, but the main problem with the AOI method is that fundamentally the colour choices are poor and the technique weak - just look at how yellow it is for a start! And the wishy-washy placement of the highlights and shadows doesn\'t help. The method is really more suited to turning out 1/35 scale fleshwork to accompany armour, rather than being good enough to really stand up to close viewing.

Let\'s compare to some quality work by top painters:
Daniel Green
Burton Silverman
Everett Raymond Kinstler
John Howard Sanden
William Whitaker

Einion

 

[airhead]

OK. Take me by the hand (figuratively) and lead me through some of the finer steps and color choices.

I\'m from the 3 to 5 shades of Reaper Master Series fleshtones school so I am in serious need of education here.

I see some very nice work in those examples. Master artists doing portraits always fasinate me - especially when you see purples and greens and other colors in the layers - yet it looks right.

And this is more of a learning/test piece anyway. Off to the stripper if it get too out of whack.

Looking at the Aces of Iron tutorial, I kinda felt like it was drybrushing in reverse. Put a bit of color on then smudge/smooth it out with a different (dry) brush.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by airhead
OK. Take me by the hand (figuratively) and lead me through some of the finer steps and color choices.

I\'m from the 3 to 5 shades of Reaper Master Series fleshtones school so I am in serious need of education here.

That sort of thing is good enough for most miniaturists. I use something like that, with some glazes later on, even on busts.

If you want to go further I can\'t think of a better how-to book than Sanden\'s Portraits From Life In 29 Steps; your local library might have a copy if you want to look at it before you consider buying.

To precis the basic mixes you might take from his methods:
Highlight - (Sanden\'s Light 1) white, Cad Red Light, Yellow Ochre

Midtone - (Sanden\'s Light 2) white, Yellow Ochre, Cad Red Light, white and a little Cerulean Blue (a light tint of any darker blue, or a grey, will work pretty much identically so don\'t sweat not having Cerulean)

Mid shadow - I sometimes use a darker mix of the midtone but Sanden\'s Halftone 2 is white, Yellow Ochre, Cadmium Red Light, Chromium Oxide Green and Cadmium Orange. With the book to hand you can just aim for the same type of colour - skipping the Cad Orange for example doesn\'t seem to be a deal-breaker.

Deep shadow - (Sanden\'s Dark 2) Burnt Sienna, Viridian and Cadmium Orange; I would mix a similar colour using different paints, just aiming for the same kind of deep brown.

Originally posted by airhead
I see some very nice work in those examples. Master artists doing portraits always fasinate me - especially when you see purples and greens and other colors in the layers - yet it looks right.

One thing to point out is that often we\'re seeing things that look like green and violet, but in reality they\'re not - something truly green, or violet, would tend to be a little outside the scope of colouring seen on skin (although of course in minis standards are different).

Einion

 

[airhead]

OK, I reworked her last night. Got to a decent shade of silly putty. (which does not look like a bad light flesh base color.) White, cad yellow & cad red - not exactly sure which ones - I\'ll have to look later. Then played with a touch of yellow ochre.


What amazes me with this is being able to come home in the evening and sit down and continue blending stuff that I put on last night.

Enion. I\'m going to check out that book. Stopping by to see if Michaels has it tonight - library and amazon are also on the \'to be checked\' list.

Thanks all.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by airhead


What amazes me with this is being able to come home in the evening and sit down and continue blending stuff that I put on last night.

yeah it\'s great aint it? you can answer the phone and not worry about the paint on the brush!

the problems i have with oils at this scale is texture. i find i often get brush strokes showing up. any advice?

 

[freakinacage]

anyone?!

airhead, hows it going down your end?

 

[generulpoleaxe]

Originally posted by freakinacage

Originally posted by airhead


What amazes me with this is being able to come home in the evening and sit down and continue blending stuff that I put on last night.

yeah it\'s great aint it? you can answer the phone and not worry about the paint on the brush!

the problems i have with oils at this scale is texture. i find i often get brush strokes showing up. any advice?

depends on the techniques your using mate.
a lot of the historical guys base coat in acrylics and then use thin oil washes to shade.

 

[freakinacage]

i have been using acrylics as a base but using wetblending to get my highlights and shades in. i tend to find streakiness though

 

[generulpoleaxe]

Originally posted by freakinacage
i have been using acrylics as a base but using wetblending to get my highlights and shades in. i tend to find streakiness though

next time their is a painters gathering mate go and watch one of adrian hopwoods oil demos (i always miss them!)
the guy is a genius when it comes to oils (he\'s pretty damn good with any medium to be honest)

 

[nick232]

the pegaso fourm is goodto look at, EVERYBODY uses oils...