French heresy ?

[Tony Manero]

(Imho i love french style and i think it\'s one of the best way of painting, just my thought )

But check what the head of GW webstaff said of our italian forum.

\"
Questione di punti di vista, secondo noi hanno l\'eresia nel sangue. Reinterpretare lo stile GW è un conto, stravolgerlo per il puro gusto di farlo è un altro. Nessuno giudica la qualità tecnica dei francesi, semplicemente esagerano. Sarò impopolare, ma pittura pressoché priva di errori, esasperazione dell\'originalità (spesso fine a se stessa) e uso quasi esclusivo del metallo non metallo (per altro tecnica bidimensionale applicata a un oggetto tridimesionale brrr...) rendono molto spesso stucchevoli delle miniature che altrimenti sarebbero perfette. Non li vedo tanto avanti, li vedo piuttosto su un binario che è iniziato parallelo e che si sta allontanando sempre di più. Prima o poi è destinato a cambiare.

LA\"


translated in english


(we was talking about the french minis, and someone said that the french style is the best, so the GW webstaff head replied)

\"This is just a point of view, for us they have heresy within. Reinterpretating GW style is a fact, changing it totally just for self-pleasure itsn\'t the same thing. Noone is judging the quality of french minis, they just overdo. I know i\'ll result unpopular but the faultless painting, the exasperation of originality (just for self pleasuring) and the exclusive use of NMM (a bidimensional technic applied on a tridimensional object -shiver-) makes perfect minis just boring. They are not so enanched, they are only travelling on a line that will change in a dead-end. They will change.\"



It leaves me astonished




1- Isn\'t GW a Worldwide company?? why internal discussions?

2- An internal GW staff member can\'t say such things. Is disrespectful.

3- Almost all of French GD winners are in Real Metal.


I\'m tired of being italian

 

[supervike]

If I interpret correctly what he is saying, it is basically the strive for painting perfection is leading somewhere into boredom...

If that is the sentiment, I would have to agree whole heartedly. I do agree the drive for perfection is taking the soul out of the hobby. It is something I have mentioned before, and I believe the term \"paint snobbery\" was used.

I am no art critic but it would be akin to saying that the only the Classical Painters of the Renessiance (sp) are the only ones worth mentioning when someone appreciates art.

 

[Infidel Castro]

I\'m still laughing at the translation lol

 

[Kraan]

My demigods!!!
The fact he\'s into webstaffing than painting proves why he should\'nt say such heresy!!!

But the fact that some(very few) people think that way should scare anyone who is into painting.

Uncle MacD is the real world leader???

 

[Tony Manero]

Originally posted by reverend
I\'m still laughing at the translation lol

yeah yeah i\'m sorry but i was full of dialectal expressions and i couldn\'t translate them.

 

[james9487]

\'Reinterpreting GW style for self-pleasure?\' What?

Games Workshop is not the God of all that is miniatures. The French don\'t paint for Games Workshop, they enter the Golden Demon for trophies and honor, but a lot of them paint for Rackham, or Ilyad. Rackham is exclusively NMM. Ilyad is metallic (with a few NMM showcase minis). Besides, like Tony said, a lot of the miniatures they paint are metallics (Allan Carrasco, Jacques-Alexandre Gillois, and others paint almost exclusively metallic).

What I don\'t understand is how NMM is boring.

 

[Avelorn]

Vike: I don\'t think you should use this site as a crownwitness for how the hobby is doing. I see nothing wrong myself with aiming for a goal that will never be reached. This \"technically\" phase will be done and over with in a number of years. the future will probably give more integration of contemporary art. Then the snobs will look down on anyone not having a \"message\". And instead of \"that blending is poor\" you will hear \"it doesn\'t speak to me\", and we will all probably applaud a miniature tampoon in a teacup. But as I said.. don\'t use this site as a crownwitness, there are other places that are far more relaxed in this specific aspect.

 

[EArkham]

Okaaaay... so it\'s another guy with an opinion. That and $3 buys him a cup of coffee. <g>

Why do some of you folks get so bent out of shape over an opinion?

The painters he\'s talking about are just regular guys with an impressive amount of talent and a knack for doing gorgeous work. That doesn\'t make them holy, just worthy of respect.

Where\'s the heresy? Mountains and molehills. <G>

Kep

 

[Ebonbuddha]

There is the problem.When you start doing stuff that the average joe can\'t do then the hobby dies out and becomes an exclusive club.

Thats why (I think so anyway) the GD judges are starting to give gold, silver, and bronze to the \"sucky\" paint jobs.

Originally posted by Avelorn
Vike: I don\'t think you should use this site as a crownwitness for how the hobby is doing. I see nothing wrong myself with aiming for a goal that will never be reached. This \"technically\" phase will be done and over with in a number of years. the future will probably give more integration of contemporary art. Then the snobs will look down on anyone not having a \"message\". And instead of \"that blending is poor\" you will hear \"it doesn\'t speak to me\", and we will all probably applaud a miniature tampoon in a teacup. But as I said.. don\'t use this site as a crownwitness, there are other places that are far more relaxed in this specific aspect.

 

[penguin]

Err... <g>

Whatever that means... What a load of bollocks.
This guy obviously knows very little about GD, or even painting in general. Plus he was rude and disrespectful to some brilliant painters, and to a whole style of painting which really isn\'t his to judge if he is this clueless. reinterpreting GW style for self-pleasure? Honestly... stuff like this saddens me, and coming from a GW mod this is even worse. Let\'s hope no one is influenced by the guy.

Happy painting

~Bill

 

[Tony Manero]

it\'s not a gw mod is the chief of italian gw webstaff, also the italian GD organizer

 

[Dude67]

What\'s wrong with being French those days? Don\'t hate us, we are not all natural born painter anyway, I\'m not really that good (yet lol).

As a layback mini painter and gamer, I can\'t see how he can say that it\'s getting borring, I\'m always stunned when I see what the GD winner did, and I\'m always full of question \"wonder how he did that?\"....
Maybe he said that because they are really good and that for the moment not a lot of painter can compete with their style.
I wonder if one day Rackham will launch their own GD kinda competition, I find that it\'s the GW minis I found boring sometimes.

 

[Avelorn]

@EB: A hobby is allways exclusive, especially one like ours. Why do you think most of us have at least some relative or girlfriend making remarks?

If you put your mini up on cmon it will be compared to the bests.. and what you are doing is comparing different aspects of the hobby. If I paint for an army, if i paint for golden demon or if i paint for meditation. All these different kinds of painting will yield different results. On cmon almost everybody presumes that you are trying your absolute best, that you are determined to improve, that you ultimately want to win a golden demon etc. The clash is inevitable! What i think people could do to avoid some of this is try to explain what they mean when they painted the mini.. For example if people state that it\'s made for tabletop more people will understand the purpose and see the mini in that context. I\'m sure you noticed it on the comments.

This change of view will not kill the hobby, it will only create different fractions with different mindssets. Some will probably move between the fractions as times moves on.. but as long as people don\'t look down upon each other it\'s really no problem. And that means from both sides.. remarks like \"painting snobs\". I mean, sure! i know this wasn\'t directed at me.. but I can be a snob at times. It is hard to avoid.. it really is. But if you try to understand the way I\'m thinking and I try to understand the way you\'re thinking we might come to some sort of \"agreement\" instead of looking down upon each other.

As for the GD comment, I don\'t think they give GD\'s to sucky paintjobs. Their taste might differ (they might for example like high contrast over subtle blends) and they might look at other aspects than pure painting.. as if they think the mini fit in particualry well with GW\'s canon. But in most cases they will choose the mini that they think is the best.

/Another long post signed Avelorn! lol

 

[Dark Seraphim]

Well, the translation was lacking a bit

@Pengu: Rude and disrespectful? He started out by saying it was just another opinion... People are allowed their opinions, thank God for free speech... right?

Anyways, I have to agree with Vike, if this is about striving to paint perfectly and not taking chances, he is right.

I don\'t think he is bashing the french team, but since we don\'t even know how this post started, or anything, the grounds for commenting is fairly weak

 

[supervike]

What I mean by Paint Snobbery is not so much the person, but the attitude that if something isn\'t 100 technically perfect, from every angle, then it is dismissed out of hand.

It manifests itself into different ways, some set the voting to only show them \"8 and above\" minis.

When we were discussing the CMoN annual, and what should be included many held the believe that they only wanted the top scoring minis in there. IMHO, to do this dismissed all the cleverness, ingenuity, craft and importance of minis that are not \'technically flawless\'. Unfortunately, I still believe that my opinion was drowned out.

I am not saying put drybrushed space marines in there, but if you don\'t think you can find real gems in the 6-7.9 range on this site, you are missing what I refer to as the heart and soul here.

I am in no way against French painters or any technically brilliant painter, the work they do is phenomenal, and I truly appreciate it. My fear is that this is becoming the ONLY acceptable work, and everything else is just bandwidth waste.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Tony Manero

Originally posted by reverend
I\'m still laughing at the translation lol

yeah yeah i\'m sorry but i was full of dialectal expressions and i couldn\'t translate them.

Mate, just keep them coming

 

[vincenti]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! One thing I have appreciated since being on this site is seeing the diversity of skills & artistic interpretations that CMON provides. I think we should think of ourselves as a modelling FRATERNITY,& not get to hung up on nationalities.Furtermore I regularly see work scoring 8-9 which if I were stinking rich I would buy because I think its awesome !I also think the system is open to \" friendly abuse \" & also mean- spiritedness, its the price you pay for such an open site. One things for sure its the best thing around and when I was given the anual as a gift I was truly inspired & I still get it out for motivation. GOD bless ....... ....VINCENTI

 

[finn17]

Hehehe...mini machinations.

1) There is no reason why the striving for technical perfection can\'t exist alongside \'ordinary\' mini painting. It\'s a good thing that some people are trying to \'raise the bar\'. After all, painting minis for the sake of painting minis has existed alongside the \'gaming\' side of the hobby for a long while.

2) GW have an axe to grind IMPO. Rackham etc. must be hurting them bad. I used to spend 1000s with GW, most of that money is now spent with Rackham and Privateer Press etc. I can\'t be the only one.

3) You can\'t put a ceiling on talent! It\'s like saying world-class footballers/athletes etc shouldn\'t try their best as it might put less-talented people off.

I applaude anyone who puts their heart and soul into their hobby, their efforts inspire me and they should be thoroughly congratulated. But WTF do I know

 

[MarkusTay]

Originally posted by supervike
What I mean by Paint Snobbery is not so much the person, but the attitude that if something isn\'t 100 technically perfect, from every angle... <snip>

Why did that last part bring to mind Rev\'s beautifully painted miniature... that was only finished on ONE side. lol

As far as the comment goes, I can see GW in general thinking that painting GW minis in a style reminiscent of Rackham minis might seem \'heretical\'. After all, don\'t they like to tell us EXACTLY how their stuff SHOULD be painted as per the \'eavy metal team and showcases like WD? Rackham minis have a different look and feel, and translating that over to GW figs might be touching on a raw nerve over at GW central.

But whatever, I\'m just glad that the bar is being raised. Pretty soon just using two colors in a disturbing/messy fashion will be considered a masterpiece! And the way I paint eyes, one higher then the other... I\'m pratically a Picaso. lol

Comment overheard at a mini-art gallery in the future -

\"His splashes of vibrant color speak to the soul, and that use of rough texture near the bottom expressing the futility of man... SUPERB!\"

(Yeah... I forgot to thin the paint and it was drying pretty fast...)
:bouncy:

 

[Ogrebane]

I dont think you have to worry about paint snobery too much Vike. I mean this is coolminiornot. Which means you take the good with the not so good. I love trolling the 6-7 catagory as alot of people who can model but cant paint so good are in that range. I get alot of good ideas from there. I mean thats were i sit and Im happy to be there.

I doubt that painting perfecting will be reached, as has been said styles change and soon smooth transition will be out of vogue (about the time I learn to do them I recon)

Go the French, keep raising the bar I love looking at your stuff too. One day maybe I\'ll get there.