GD Chicago 09
- Thread starter Elly3438
- Start date
Hey all,
We are aware of what is going on with Marc\'s entries and have sent him an email regarding his pending disqualifications. As we don\'t have ALL the facts in just yet, we are apprehensive about taking action immediately until we hear his side. All evidence is pointing to the worst, but it\'s only fair to hear his story.
We hope to do the following to amend the situation provided that Marc\'s entries are indeed disqualified:
1. Post the amended winners and notify those who earned 4th place they have received an award.
2. Notify those that won awards in the Open, WFB Regiment, and WFB Monster categories that they should send their golden demon statues back to us at the HQ for re-distribution.
3. Send out the appropriate awards and post the coverage with the correct winners. As it stands, if those three entries are disqualified, the following people will win the awards:
Warhammer Monster
Gold - Kyle Morgan - Chaos Giant
Silver Dave Pauwels - Rat Ogre
Bronze - James Wappel - Slann Mage Priest
Warhammer Regiment
Gold - Kyle Morgan - Red Great Swords
Silver - James Wappel - Salamander Hunting Pack
Bronze - Dylan Gauker - Nurgle Beastmen
Open
Gold - Tim Lison - The Fall of Egrehafen
Silver - Chris Borer - Night Goblin Boss
Bronze - John Shaffer - Snikrot on Rynn\'s World
I\'m sure it may raise eyebrows that my name is on this list, but I assure you I in no way had any influence over the judging of the Open nor was Tim or I even in the vicinity during judging of that category. We always choose a 4th place in case of tomfoolery, and I was lucky enough to be chosen for 4th in a pretty tough category.
Thanks again to those of you that keep an eye out for such things - we will certainly put into place measures to help ensure honesty during the registration process for next year. Unfortunately we often don\'t know until well after the fact. We\'re open for suggestions on how we can avoid this sort of thing in the future as it seems to happen in the US all too often. Please post your suggestions here if you like.
If you have any further questions or concerns, just shout!
john.shaffer@games-workshop.com
John Shaffer
Golden Demon Staff
We are aware of what is going on with Marc\'s entries and have sent him an email regarding his pending disqualifications. As we don\'t have ALL the facts in just yet, we are apprehensive about taking action immediately until we hear his side. All evidence is pointing to the worst, but it\'s only fair to hear his story.
We hope to do the following to amend the situation provided that Marc\'s entries are indeed disqualified:
1. Post the amended winners and notify those who earned 4th place they have received an award.
2. Notify those that won awards in the Open, WFB Regiment, and WFB Monster categories that they should send their golden demon statues back to us at the HQ for re-distribution.
3. Send out the appropriate awards and post the coverage with the correct winners. As it stands, if those three entries are disqualified, the following people will win the awards:
Warhammer Monster
Gold - Kyle Morgan - Chaos Giant
Silver Dave Pauwels - Rat Ogre
Bronze - James Wappel - Slann Mage Priest
Warhammer Regiment
Gold - Kyle Morgan - Red Great Swords
Silver - James Wappel - Salamander Hunting Pack
Bronze - Dylan Gauker - Nurgle Beastmen
Open
Gold - Tim Lison - The Fall of Egrehafen
Silver - Chris Borer - Night Goblin Boss
Bronze - John Shaffer - Snikrot on Rynn\'s World
I\'m sure it may raise eyebrows that my name is on this list, but I assure you I in no way had any influence over the judging of the Open nor was Tim or I even in the vicinity during judging of that category. We always choose a 4th place in case of tomfoolery, and I was lucky enough to be chosen for 4th in a pretty tough category.
Thanks again to those of you that keep an eye out for such things - we will certainly put into place measures to help ensure honesty during the registration process for next year. Unfortunately we often don\'t know until well after the fact. We\'re open for suggestions on how we can avoid this sort of thing in the future as it seems to happen in the US all too often. Please post your suggestions here if you like.
If you have any further questions or concerns, just shout!
john.shaffer@games-workshop.com
John Shaffer
Golden Demon Staff
john,
thanks for helping otu and being quick to reply to this matter. and i think i can speak for the rest that we dont think anything bad about you getting a 3rd if it holds to be true.
as for stopping this from happening. i would reccomend one of two things.
1. ban the person outright from golden demon competitions and put an article in white dwarf, (much like you did with the counterfeiter a year back).
2. possibly have a more stringent system of allowing entries in, during the following years. how to do that i have no idea.
but anyhow. thanks again. and good to hear from you.
thanks for helping otu and being quick to reply to this matter. and i think i can speak for the rest that we dont think anything bad about you getting a 3rd if it holds to be true.
as for stopping this from happening. i would reccomend one of two things.
1. ban the person outright from golden demon competitions and put an article in white dwarf, (much like you did with the counterfeiter a year back).
2. possibly have a more stringent system of allowing entries in, during the following years. how to do that i have no idea.
but anyhow. thanks again. and good to hear from you.
Well, the problem is that you really cannot. IDing people is pointless because I know hardly any who function on comon under his own rather then an assumed name
. This probably help to insure that people can enter minies only under their own name rather then actual painters names. Having a comon access at the judging table might help, but not very likely because you cannot perform an effective search of images. Although... hmm first cutoff for minies above 7.8 then search for words in a title.... Might work for single minies, perhaps regimens-squads, will not work for all named dioramas and open stuff. So, essentially all you have to do is checking winners manually after the fact.
(you can do a \"racial profiting\"
- limit such a search to entries from people whom you or other judges don\'t know personally - that alone should limit search considerably)
Elly3438
Member
Blearg!
Todd you are correct, he DID in fact enter the dragon last year and got an honorable mention.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=3000004&pIndex=20&aId=9500010&start=21
also
http://www.coolminiornot.com/192187
This is despicable, how can you enter someone elses stuff as your own, like a big phony. Stealing awards away from people who actually showed up with their own hard work. And golds too! rrrrraaaaarg!
Todd you are correct, he DID in fact enter the dragon last year and got an honorable mention.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=3000004&pIndex=20&aId=9500010&start=21
also
http://www.coolminiornot.com/192187
This is despicable, how can you enter someone elses stuff as your own, like a big phony. Stealing awards away from people who actually showed up with their own hard work. And golds too! rrrrraaaaarg!
By multi person do you mean team entries? as far as I know its a common thing in some GD\'s in europe ( the uk one seems less favourable to teams efforts)... Is that against rules in the US?
And yes I totally agree with you team efforts are against the spirit of these competitions.
julien.casses
Member
Team entries are another things, and it\'s not really against the competition, it\'s totally another \"problem\" that have equals good and bad arguments in both side. All depend to organizer choice and vision.
But this case is again totally awfull and disgusting. Thanks to the people who saw that, and more thanks to GW to be so rapid and fair in their decision.
Gongrats also to all the winner, and also to all the \"new winners\" that will won the award they deserved...
Just hope that the cheater will be fair as well to return back the demons to US GW HQ...
But this case is again totally awfull and disgusting. Thanks to the people who saw that, and more thanks to GW to be so rapid and fair in their decision.
Gongrats also to all the winner, and also to all the \"new winners\" that will won the award they deserved...
Just hope that the cheater will be fair as well to return back the demons to US GW HQ...
Dragon Forge Design
New member
Well they only have 2 hours or so to accept every ones miniatures so there is no time to scan the net for pictures of people entries or ask 40 questions.. Though asking the entrant \"Is this your work\" and having something to that effect on the registration card above where they sign is enough.
What might curtail someone on the future is GW making an example of them publicly and making the penalties harsh. Make sure people understand if you cheat their is a price to pay.
In the end, if people are truly clever..no one can catch everything.
What might curtail someone on the future is GW making an example of them publicly and making the penalties harsh. Make sure people understand if you cheat their is a price to pay.
In the end, if people are truly clever..no one can catch everything.
Dragon Forge Design
New member
Julien,
It depends on the GD competition. The US and UK rules do say all entries must be the work of a single entrant and by that person. No entering another work or no joint entries.
Taken straight from the UK rules page which is the same for the US rules.
http://www.games- workshop. com/gws/content/ article.jsp? categoryId= 300001a&pIndex=1&aId=6900007&start=2
All entries must be personally handed in by their creator and registered at the National Exhibition Centre, Birmingham, on Sunday 27th September 2009. We will not accept any entries on behalf of competitors who are not in attendance at the event. All entries must be collected from the show stands at specified times by the entrant in person. These times will be published in the Games Day programme and will be announced over the PA system on the day. All models should be the work of a single hobbyist. All work on models entered into the Golden Demon - including but not limited to painting, modelling, converting, after-market sculpting, and basing - must be performed entirely by the entrant. Neither models obtained from someone else in any state of completion nor collaborative efforts may be entered. Anyone found violating this rule will be immediately disqualified and forbidden from entering future Golden Demon painting competitions.
I\'m not sure how the rules read in France and other countries, but I do know GW HQ is working hard to make sure all the rules are the same no matter where you go.
julien.casses
Member
Jeff you misundertsandood me .
I was answering about \"Team project are not fair to this competition\" that is a different question above the problem of \"cheating to the competition\".
Register a mini that you not paint under your name is not team work, it\'s just cheat.
I wasn\'t talking about team work at GD, but team work in general in comp.
But what i wanted to said in my previous post was that the team case wasn\'t the subject of this affair !
Edit : I forget also in my previous text to answer about the uselless trying of cheating at GD. From what I know, in the 3 or 4 last years, all cheating case had been discoverd few days after the comp... So why try and try when you know that you\'ll be owned ?
.I was answering about \"Team project are not fair to this competition\" that is a different question above the problem of \"cheating to the competition\".
Register a mini that you not paint under your name is not team work, it\'s just cheat.
I wasn\'t talking about team work at GD, but team work in general in comp.
But what i wanted to said in my previous post was that the team case wasn\'t the subject of this affair
!Edit : I forget also in my previous text to answer about the uselless trying of cheating at GD. From what I know, in the 3 or 4 last years, all cheating case had been discoverd few days after the comp... So why try and try when you know that you\'ll be owned ?
Dragon Forge Design
New member
Originally posted by julien.casses
Jeff you misundertsandood me
I was answering about \"Team project are not fair to this competition\" that is a different question above the problem of \"cheating to the competition\".
Register a mini that you not paint under your name is not team work, it\'s just cheat.
I wasn\'t talking about team work at GD, but team work in general in comp.
But what i wanted to said in my previous post was that the team case wasn\'t the subject of this affair
Edit : I forget also in my previous text to answer about the uselless trying of cheating at GD. From what I know, in the 3 or 4 last years, all cheating case had been discoverd few days after the comp... So why try and try when you know that you\'ll be owned ?
Yeah probably
but when you said \"Team entries are another things, and it\'s not really against the competition, \" I was assuming you meant that team entries were OK when as I was pointing out they are not in most countries GD now. I know in previous years there have been team entries..Matt C and Ben K are known for some team entries of theirs..but that was back in a time when they were \"Allowed\"Anyhoo .. your right..they always get caught in the end.
From what i can tell, the painter is actually a former GD winner himself. What a strange scam.
http://demonwinner.free.fr/peintre.php?id_peintre=1270
http://demonwinner.free.fr/peintre.php?id_peintre=1270
Aliengod3
Active member
As long as great painters continue to sell their work and take commissions their will be self centered idiots that try to win demons with minis they bought from the great painters. Didn\'t something like this happen at Baltimore too where someone entered Ana\'s minis? This crap will never end...
davetaylor
New member
The owner who entered Ana\'s minis in Baltimore actually entered them in Ana\'s name, claiming it was the first time he had been to a Games Day/Golden Demon and did not know better. When he immediately contacted Ana and told her the news, she got in touch with John (I believe), and the owner was incredibly apologetic and had the Golden Demon statue in the post to GW HQ the next day. That was a case of naivete and honestly good intentions, well-handled by John.
This is still being well handled by John, but Marc\'s intentions do not seem as honorable.
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Man, I just don\'t get it. I mean, part of me understands that the painter (who\'s talent is undeniable) was happy to have his works recognized, through whatever avenues the merits came to be earned. What about the other guy who entered them? Is it like \"Ever since I got those Demon awards on my mantle I\'ve been gettin\' so much tail I need a second dick!\"? What\'s the pay off from that avenue? I just don\'t get it.
It would be great if this was all some horrible misunderstanding, I seem to recall the baltimore incident appeared to be just that. Hopefully it was a mistake, but it appears to be a little bit more then fishy, unfortunately.
It would be great if this was all some horrible misunderstanding, I seem to recall the baltimore incident appeared to be just that. Hopefully it was a mistake, but it appears to be a little bit more then fishy, unfortunately.
Aliengod3
Active member
I can respect that the individual who entered Ana\'s minis entered them in her name and was apologetic about the situation. However naive his actions may have been, the rules for golden demon are posted in various places and especially at the competition. I am not sure about Baltimore but in LA when one enters the competition the GW employees who work the golden demon booth ask each participant if the minis they are entering are painted and converted by the individual who is entering them. I still find it difficult to believe that he entered them with good intentions. Plus it is still not fair to the other participants who actually deserved an award for their hard work.
Just my opinion...
Just my opinion...
the Infadel
New member
i think that this is just part of the nature of the beast. someone that wants to cheat will. what happens if the painter has not posted pics of their work online. how would anyone ever know that the person entering didn\'t paint it?
and i am not sure if you can really punish someone for this type of cheating. what do you do, post their picture on the GW website and label them a cheater?
if someone really wanted to, they could not even give real contact info, so once they leave the event, they couldn\'t be contacted to return the trophy.
there isn\'t really a lot that can be done to stop it.
and i am not sure if you can really punish someone for this type of cheating. what do you do, post their picture on the GW website and label them a cheater?
if someone really wanted to, they could not even give real contact info, so once they leave the event, they couldn\'t be contacted to return the trophy.
there isn\'t really a lot that can be done to stop it.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
@The infadel: Yes and no. You are correct that more elaborate frauds are hard to discover but most of the people that perennially win deamons and even more those that both have the capability of winning deamons and are selling miniatures, are pretty well known. I think a small group of enthusiast that frequently surf coolminiornot, ebay and other sites and blogs that can look through the miniatures would discover most frauds.
