Golgotha by Victor Hardy

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vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by EricJ
I am just yet to see anyone then figure out what the message actually is once he has our attention.
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Please explain the message of your avatar mini, because I have totally missed it.
 
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EricJ

Active member
Originally posted by Malfoy
First, Matt, you\'re right. Bears are this nation\'s number one problem and they\'re on notice!

Second, Eric, I think that when Victor gets a chance to explain what he was doing with the piece (drawing parallels between Christianity and 40K\'s Imperial Cult) you\'ll find that not only was he successful, but that it was well-executed and appropriate. It tells a story and certainly isn\'t just controversial for the sake of controversy. But I\'m sure VH is preparing a \"tour\" of the model. Until that happens it\'s really out of context for people.

And things should be in context otherwise they just look like Mohammed with a turban-bomb, right?

dave
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Bears are one thing we can all agree on!

And don\'t worry, I still have an open mind about this all, just voicing my initial impressions more than anything else. I\'m looking forward to the explaination and willing to change my opinions based on it.

@Kep - there isn\'t anything against having photos online and entering again, I guess it just adds more surprise factor when you show up with something people have not seen before.

@vince the goal of my avatar mini was not message based, but rather scene/setting/ambience based and feel free to agree/disagree if I was successful or not in that. I am not trying to say every mini needs a message, rather, that when you use imagery which is so powerful in society, you better understand what you are portraying, and what you\'re trying to say using those images...or like Malfoy so accurately states, you end up with something akin to Mohammed with a turban-bomb.
 
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tagron

New member
Originally posted by EricJ
Originally posted by Malfoy

Eric,
I think being disturbed is a very important reaction when your goal is to disturb people! In fact, you might even say that if you\'re trying to disturb people and then those people are disturbed, you\'ve been successful. Pretty simple, right?

And if you\'re saying Victor\'s piece fails because it hasn\'t made people re-evaluate their faith, then I\'m at a real loss to understand your expectations.

I don\'t really want to argue and we all agree it\'s completely subjective and we are certainly entitled to our opinions (I, personally, thought you\'re work at the L.A. Games Day was far and away the most inspired). But I have to disagree with your premise that this piece fails to illicit any valuable response.

Dave
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Well, in another example, there was once this website cumonbabyjesus.com, which someone set up, and made quite disturbing, basically the goal (which was stated) was to be so disturbing that some christian group would purchase the domain from them to take it down. I don\'t see a real point or value to just being able to disturb someone without a real message behind it. In other words, how I see it, is that being disturbing is what catches someones attention, but what\'s important is the message you deliever once you have their attention.

Now if you read back a ways, I already have mentioned there is brilliance shown in this piece, and it does catch the attention obviously. I am just yet to see anyone then figure out what the message actually is once he has our attention.

Some people have called this a true work of art and that is what I am debating, not the fact that it is a brilliantly painted miniature (which is obviously is). To me (since I agree it\'s completely subjective), I do not elevate this to the level of an important/thought provoking piece of art. To me, it is another mini in which the imagery chosen actually detracts from my enjoyment of it.

And my expectation is not to have people reevaluate their faith, but rather that something, anything interesting is said on the subject of faith, since their is so much religious imagery used.

PS: Thanks for the comment about my LA entry :)
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I think i see what your getting at eric, and i agree totaly, you seem to have just done a much better job of expressing it than me.

I think the reason i didnt \"care enough to be offended\" was this; The best lies have a truth in them,
I think if victor had picked out a truth about christ or the christianity then twisted it in a plausible way that made you wonder, that would have been powerfull enough to offend. I think thats why people get fired up over the da vinci code, it mixed reality with fiction which caused people to question things.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
I guess my point was it doesn\'t have to have a message. He could have looked at GW stuff and said \"hey, that is based a lot on the medieval forms of christianity. Since I\'m doing a demon I will do it all up in a mix of Byzantine and gothic Christian symbolism with a demonic twist.\"
He doesn\'t need to be trying to make people think about their religion.

p.s. Doesn\'t the Davinci Code have a disclaimer at the beginning? Hard to believe that statistic about Canadians.
 
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EricJ

Active member
Originally posted by vincegamer
I guess my point was it doesn\'t have to have a message. He could have looked at GW stuff and said \"hey, that is based a lot on the medieval forms of christianity. Since I\'m doing a demon I will do it all up in a mix of Byzantine and gothic Christian symbolism with a demonic twist.\"
He doesn\'t need to be trying to make people think about their religion.
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You\'re right, it might not mean anything more than commenting on the parallels between 40k fluff and christianity, and I agree it doesn\'t have to be more. My point is that I wanted and hoped that there would be more. Victor invested an amazing amount of time and skill and thought into this piece, and came up with something that is undoubtedly eyecatching and disturbing through the use of powerful imagery. For all of that investment I think I am hoping there is a message beyond a fairly obvious comment on the 40k universe.

Metaphorically, it would leave me with a case of \"artistic blueballs\" so to speak. :D
 
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tagron

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer


p.s. Doesn\'t the Davinci Code have a disclaimer at the beginning? Hard to believe that statistic about Canadians.
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they were asked to put one but refused
 
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tzor

New member
:mad: OK now I\'m angry. I see this great thread and my couriousity is raised to the nth level and what do I get? Broken thread reported. Now I\'m going to have to wait until I get home, and I\'ll probably forget and everything.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by tagron
Originally posted by vincegamer


p.s. Doesn\'t the Davinci Code have a disclaimer at the beginning? Hard to believe that statistic about Canadians.
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they were asked to put one but refused
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I meant the book, not the movie. I know the movie refused but I thought they were asked because there was one in the book.
 
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Prophet

New member
This was ol\' Vic\'s explanation from a couple years back:
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/mini-painter/message/91196
 
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EricJ

Active member
Originally posted by vincegamer
Originally posted by EricJit would leave me with a case of \"artistic blueballs\" so to speak. :D
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You know I\'m going to use that now. I just have to figure out where....
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HAHA, yeah, I know, I was thrilled that I got to use that one finally :D
 
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tzor

New member
Now that I am home I can see it and comment on it. First of all I have to say it\'s exceptionally well painted. Second I have to say that I\'m surprised the number of \"styles\" that appear on the mini; the banner uses Eastern Iconography, but is sourrounded by Celtic embrodery. The wings reflect an Italian fresco style common in the early Rennisance. And it seems like they all naturally belong on the same mini.
 
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Prophet

New member
Originally posted by supervike
Feel free to critique the art work, but please refrain from personal attacks.

Thank you.
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Read his explanation and tell me you don\'t come to the same conclusion.
 
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tagron

New member
vike, prophet just said he thought it was bull... isnt that still opinion?

:(
Please sombody define insult/opinion.... prophet says that what victor says is bull, and hashmallum calls me an extremist, yet prophet catches the rebuke, wouldnt the extremist remark be considered more of an insult than prophets comment?
 
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Pastor Prime

New member
I got it... lets stop beating this limp pony and... start painting for the \"Best Painter in the WORLD!\" competition. I\'m going to pick up the trophy right now. Will post a pic of it later this evening. There is still time (especially when you consider how many posts this thread has and how long everyone has debated this topic!) lol

If not we could organize a pro-Christian vs. pro-Demon arm wrestling tourney. Think sly stone in \"over the top.\" :idea:

Which gets me thinking... who is the strongest member of CMON? It wouldn\'t be me, arms like stork legs.

- Q
 
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