Golgotha by Victor Hardy
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vincegamer
Active member
I don\'t understand this need for a \"focus\" or a \"place to rest your eyes.\"
When does Heirnonimous Bosch let you rest your eyes?
And I actually think the banner is pretty clearly the focus.
And why would he need to flap his wings? They are just there for intimidation.
When does Heirnonimous Bosch let you rest your eyes?
And I actually think the banner is pretty clearly the focus.
And why would he need to flap his wings? They are just there for intimidation.
Dammekkos2
New member
Then you need to read some art books
Im a Christian, so i guess my view may be helpfull.
Personaly im not offended, because up untill this point i had not heard the name victor hardy more than a few times. And if victor has some hazy ill concocted idea of christianity and wants to express it, why should i care?
He obviously doesnt understand the christian faith, if he did he would realize the crucifiction was not the thing to \'romp\' around for, atleast as far as the demonic faction was concerned. I think hes just putting pictures togather to look like its got a basis in RL religion. And really thats just the same as when i say \"Hung kong chun pow wee tang sung\" when trying to impersonate a guy speaking chinese, i literaly know nothing about chinese i just makeing noises. Thats how i see victor, hes just making noises, they dont actualy form any intellegent message let allone an attack worthy of offence.
So now that he has expressed this half braind conception of Jesus and the demonic realm on a GW hunk of led, why would that matter enough to offend me? I like shopping in Hot-topic (goth/punk clothing store) and i see allot of things that dont go with the christian message, i dont buy them, but i dont freak out either, its simply someone elses opinion.
Personaly im not offended, because up untill this point i had not heard the name victor hardy more than a few times. And if victor has some hazy ill concocted idea of christianity and wants to express it, why should i care?
He obviously doesnt understand the christian faith, if he did he would realize the crucifiction was not the thing to \'romp\' around for, atleast as far as the demonic faction was concerned. I think hes just putting pictures togather to look like its got a basis in RL religion. And really thats just the same as when i say \"Hung kong chun pow wee tang sung\" when trying to impersonate a guy speaking chinese, i literaly know nothing about chinese i just makeing noises. Thats how i see victor, hes just making noises, they dont actualy form any intellegent message let allone an attack worthy of offence.
So now that he has expressed this half braind conception of Jesus and the demonic realm on a GW hunk of led, why would that matter enough to offend me? I like shopping in Hot-topic (goth/punk clothing store) and i see allot of things that dont go with the christian message, i dont buy them, but i dont freak out either, its simply someone elses opinion.
The issue is, every time I first look at this piece, it is a blur of lines, colors, etc, without anything really drawing your attention. To see it clearly you have to sit down, decide where to start looking and then progress from there. A piece with focus and flow, invites your eye to a starting point, and then through the use of the lines and color offers a progression to accent the details.
While it is true there are works that specifically try to do the opposite (pollock anyone!?), but I\'m not sure it is possible in mini painting.
I agree the banner grabs your attention more than anything else since the eye likes to focus on a face first, but then what? It makes this face with unclear reasoning stand out perhaps more than it should.
This is what I mean when I say it lacks flow and focus and is just too busy to be taken in all at once.
I agree with the overall sentiment that it\'s just too busy. All the detailing just serves to distract any real focus on the piece. It\'s all over the place; sometimes more is not always better.
And the pose doesn\'t help. What\'s this daemon supposed to be doing? Looks like he stepped on a tack or something?
Re: the religious symbolism. I don\'t mind it so much...heck, GW\'s fluff is rife with christian symbolism. The problem I have with it, is that within the 40K universe, it just doesn\'t fit...
If it were the Emperor, or maybe Sanguinus being depicted, maybe... Or better still, if you must use the Madonna and Child iconography, make it a daemonic parody. As is, it feels like the religious imagery was added for shock value, which weakens the piece for me.
Re: the Freehand...not the best freehand I\'ve seen on CMON...so not too impressed there either.
In the end, it\'s alot of work, nice colors, but no real focus, no story to the scene, and the detail is too over the top.
Of ourse, this is simply my opinion, your mileage may vary...
-M
And the pose doesn\'t help. What\'s this daemon supposed to be doing? Looks like he stepped on a tack or something?
Re: the religious symbolism. I don\'t mind it so much...heck, GW\'s fluff is rife with christian symbolism. The problem I have with it, is that within the 40K universe, it just doesn\'t fit...
If it were the Emperor, or maybe Sanguinus being depicted, maybe... Or better still, if you must use the Madonna and Child iconography, make it a daemonic parody. As is, it feels like the religious imagery was added for shock value, which weakens the piece for me.
Re: the Freehand...not the best freehand I\'ve seen on CMON...so not too impressed there either.
In the end, it\'s alot of work, nice colors, but no real focus, no story to the scene, and the detail is too over the top.
Of ourse, this is simply my opinion, your mileage may vary...
-M
Gonads
With all the discussion going on about this mini lets please spare a thought for Victor, whatever our thoughts on the art or morality of this piece he obviously busted his gonads to create this mini, its not my type of thing but I congratulate the man for his skill, patience and incredable perserverance, well done Victor , congratulations on the award! GOD bless ...........VINCENTI
With all the discussion going on about this mini lets please spare a thought for Victor, whatever our thoughts on the art or morality of this piece he obviously busted his gonads to create this mini, its not my type of thing but I congratulate the man for his skill, patience and incredable perserverance, well done Victor , congratulations on the award!
GOD bless ...........VINCENTI
M
Molebrain
Guest
That\'s just it- it IS the emporer being depicted. The child has horns and a tail- that qualifies as demonic parody. There\'s lots here that people can\'t see because of the picture size and of course an explananation that hasn\'t been written yet.
Also missing is the fact that the faces on the leg armor blend- the left eye from one piece becomes the right eye of the next face. Lots of little things that you can\'t see. It IS am impressive piece of freehand no matter what you think of the idea behind it.
Zach
SebastianRushworth
New member
Crikey! Who said he\'s taking a jab at the Christian faith!?
Anyone who knows even a little about 40k knows that the Empire is closely modelled on the medieval Catholic church. All this guy has done is take it a step further. If you think this piece is somehow intended as an attack on the Christian faith then I think you grossly misunderstand its intentions.
As to the piece itself. Well, I think the freehand is maybe overdone, but it\'s still an amazing piece that I\'d love to have as part of a collection, and I can\'t give it less than a ten.
And finally, about the \"focus of attention\" discussion. It\'s a very valid point, but there are no laws in art, so I think it\'s a bit rude to brush Vincegamer off by telling him to \"look in an art book\".
angus147258
New member
OMFG!!!!! FRIGGIN AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
o
That could win the french slayer sword! It\'s really that good!
o
That could win the french slayer sword! It\'s really that good!
vincegamer
Active member
So are you saying the zombie jesus is the emperor on the golden throne?
Now that you suggest that, I recall the picture of the emperor from the old Spacehulk rule book (or was it the Genestealer expansion book?) and it did look a lot like a zombie with a halo.
Now that you suggest that, I recall the picture of the emperor from the old Spacehulk rule book (or was it the Genestealer expansion book?) and it did look a lot like a zombie with a halo.
No no no, thats not my point, i get the feeling he was trying for a jab a christ, (hes got him portrayed as crying in the fist of a demon) but its not at all coherent so i cant really be offended by the nonsence.
And you know that isnt the emperor, when did he wear a crown of thornes? and what special place in his story does his mother come into it? Doesnt it seem a little more likely that a piece entitled golgitha would be talking about jesus and the virgin mary?
And you know that isnt the emperor, when did he wear a crown of thornes? and what special place in his story does his mother come into it? Doesnt it seem a little more likely that a piece entitled golgitha would be talking about jesus and the virgin mary?
Shawn R. L.
New member
To me. I\'m not going to throw rocks at anyone about this but the juxtaposing of God\'s most precous gift to us all with something so utterly foul saddens me. If I did a mini of a child molester and named it after your mother you might have a similar reaction.
M
Malfoy
Guest
I so wanted to hold my tongue here, but you guys are right. I agree art should never be, in any way, offensive or provacative. Artists should never attempt to illict a reaction through their work and, most importantly, we should never have to question our own sensibilities.
Dave
And I think you\'ll eventually find that VH knows a LOT more about Christianity, Christian iconology and 40K fluff than you might imagine.
Dave
And I think you\'ll eventually find that VH knows a LOT more about Christianity, Christian iconology and 40K fluff than you might imagine.
Drake Farstrider
New member
Well after spending a goodly amount of time looking at Golgotha. I have come to this conclusion. It is stunning! A perfect 10! My only complaint on it may be that the photo may be lacking a little and I am not able to fully appreciate the amount of work that Victor put into it. Also as I am not christian the iconagraphy does not bother me one bit.
Matt Cexwish
Member
I am Catholic and I am... well, sort of offended, because I think that the symbols GW uses are transferred, twisted in a way, this one here is pure, you can clearly see Christ and the relations to reality, not fiction, so I can understand either the point of GW saying, that you were disqualified from a public contest (in which the picture of o Mini can influence GW´s image in a bad way...) AND the one from people saying that this is a masterpiece...
Yes, it is really good, technically executed very well, but NO, the Topic is not to be done as a mini... sorry...
So... If I would rate this one I would give a 10... I too think that you can overdo a paintjob (best example: the Dark Eldar HQ by jeremie (?)... Check this one out as well...)... But nevertheless some aspects like the choice of color (wings...) are quite subtile... the images are executed very well... Sadly, All in all I won´t vote and comment for this mini, sorry...... I like it, but not the idea of it...
Yes, it is really good, technically executed very well, but NO, the Topic is not to be done as a mini... sorry...
So... If I would rate this one I would give a 10... I too think that you can overdo a paintjob (best example: the Dark Eldar HQ by jeremie (?)... Check this one out as well...)... But nevertheless some aspects like the choice of color (wings...) are quite subtile... the images are executed very well... Sadly, All in all I won´t vote and comment for this mini, sorry...
... I like it, but not the idea of it...AinuLainour
New member
Has Victor written the article yet?
I really don\'t see how an image of Christ, the virgin Mary and a \'demon\' baby jesus fits at all with the 40k imagery.
Now if it had been the Emperor, say before and after his battle with Horus, that would have fitted the 40K imagery perfectly. The crushing of the the Emperor by chaos is perfect imagery for a chaos demon, Jesus on the other hand has nothing to do with it. The image on the wing is more in line with the 40k imagery, but it still looks more like jesus than the emperor.
I am aware that the whole 40k background heavily draws from christianity, i just think this goes too far, its not 40k anymore.
It might have worked better if it wasn\'t a GD piece, they by definition are supposed to fit with the 40k imagery, this does not.
I also agree that it a bit busy, but thats a relatively minor point, it is nice being able to see something new each time you look at it.
The freehands are very good, wish I could do something half as good. Colour choice works well and the base looks great.
I gave it a 10, but on reflection its more a 9, but I\'m not splitting hairs, great work, its just the imagery doesn\'t gel for me.
Now if it had been the Emperor, say before and after his battle with Horus, that would have fitted the 40K imagery perfectly. The crushing of the the Emperor by chaos is perfect imagery for a chaos demon, Jesus on the other hand has nothing to do with it. The image on the wing is more in line with the 40k imagery, but it still looks more like jesus than the emperor.
I am aware that the whole 40k background heavily draws from christianity, i just think this goes too far, its not 40k anymore.
It might have worked better if it wasn\'t a GD piece, they by definition are supposed to fit with the 40k imagery, this does not.
I also agree that it a bit busy, but thats a relatively minor point, it is nice being able to see something new each time you look at it.
The freehands are very good, wish I could do something half as good. Colour choice works well and the base looks great.
I gave it a 10, but on reflection its more a 9, but I\'m not splitting hairs, great work, its just the imagery doesn\'t gel for me.
Already posted in the other thread, but...
Thats the problem and the reason it doesn\'t work for me, its obviously Jesus and not the emperor. Jesus does not exist in 40k (well if he did, he\'s 40k long in the past...)
Unless the intention is that the emperor is the 2nd coming of christ? Even so, it just mixes the 2 imageries too much for me. Yes 40k draws heavily on christianity, but it is done in a way that it becomes unique and is clearly different.
On a side note, how many of you knew that the whole halo thing originated from the collusus of Rhodes and early sun worshipping religions, and that western images of christ are based on Alexander the Great? Borrowing iconography is nothing new...
Thats the problem and the reason it doesn\'t work for me, its obviously Jesus and not the emperor. Jesus does not exist in 40k (well if he did, he\'s 40k long in the past...)
Unless the intention is that the emperor is the 2nd coming of christ? Even so, it just mixes the 2 imageries too much for me. Yes 40k draws heavily on christianity, but it is done in a way that it becomes unique and is clearly different.
On a side note, how many of you knew that the whole halo thing originated from the collusus of Rhodes and early sun worshipping religions, and that western images of christ are based on Alexander the Great? Borrowing iconography is nothing new...
Meh, it\'s all in how you choose to look at it.
Some see Jesus and the Virgin Mary, but it very well could be an imp with a stranglehold around it\'s mothers neck. Mother Earth perhaps?
Some see the other side and see Jesus with thorns on his crown, I see an emancipated man perhaps the Emperor with an Iron Halo, notice the thorns are a greyish color.
There is nothing I can see that distictly links it to christianity other than the similarity of the painting styles to the masters used on the back banner, and those paintings while dealing with religious concepts are in no way regarded as holy artifacts.
In fact if we are to believe the bible then even the masters had it wrong as Jesus and Mary were not Caucasians but Jews, and I seriously doubt anyone growing up as a carpenter, without they aid of power tools, would have the effiminate frame that most of the masters attributed to Jesus in their paintings.
Some see Jesus and the Virgin Mary, but it very well could be an imp with a stranglehold around it\'s mothers neck. Mother Earth perhaps?
Some see the other side and see Jesus with thorns on his crown, I see an emancipated man perhaps the Emperor with an Iron Halo, notice the thorns are a greyish color.
There is nothing I can see that distictly links it to christianity other than the similarity of the painting styles to the masters used on the back banner, and those paintings while dealing with religious concepts are in no way regarded as holy artifacts.
In fact if we are to believe the bible then even the masters had it wrong as Jesus and Mary were not Caucasians but Jews, and I seriously doubt anyone growing up as a carpenter, without they aid of power tools, would have the effiminate frame that most of the masters attributed to Jesus in their paintings.
