the catman
New member
what do you think I could improve on ???
the catman
grey knight termie
- Thread starter the catman
- Start date
what do you think I could improve on ???
the catman
I would start with neatness... It looks like you\'ve tried to wash the miniature with brown ink but it\'s covered ok in some places put pooled in others.
When inking large surfaces it\'s sometimes a good idea to add a little paint into the mix (bestial brown) to make sure it adheres to the surface a little better. I personally use matte medium.
You can produce the opposite effect (i.e. get the wash to sink into crevices) by using various \"magic mixes\" (like future floor polish or good old washing up liquid).
Also painting a miniature well starts right at the beginning. Make sure you get all the mould lines cleaned off and, especially if it\'s a metal miniature, I like to give the miniature a good sanding down before a final wash in warm water and washing liquid - then prime.
For metal:
Boltgun base.
I wash down with \'armour wash\' which is a little blue and brown ink + bestial brown or matte medium.
re-apply boltgun then start adding mithril silver.
I really like the green book - good use of spot colours. Not sure about the blue - specially on the base since I can\'t work out what it is!
Keep working hard!
When inking large surfaces it\'s sometimes a good idea to add a little paint into the mix (bestial brown) to make sure it adheres to the surface a little better. I personally use matte medium.
You can produce the opposite effect (i.e. get the wash to sink into crevices) by using various \"magic mixes\" (like future floor polish or good old washing up liquid).
Also painting a miniature well starts right at the beginning. Make sure you get all the mould lines cleaned off and, especially if it\'s a metal miniature, I like to give the miniature a good sanding down before a final wash in warm water and washing liquid - then prime.
For metal:
Boltgun base.
I wash down with \'armour wash\' which is a little blue and brown ink + bestial brown or matte medium.
re-apply boltgun then start adding mithril silver.
I really like the green book - good use of spot colours. Not sure about the blue - specially on the base since I can\'t work out what it is!
Keep working hard!
the catman
New member
thanks
the blue on the base is were Im putting snow flock.
iv gone over the whole model and am going to try nmm gold for the first or second time.
Ill try and get pics soon.
I know I should have takken more care with the mold lines but this is more of a model to try new tequniches out.
the catman
the blue on the base is were Im putting snow flock.
iv gone over the whole model and am going to try nmm gold for the first or second time.
Ill try and get pics soon.
I know I should have takken more care with the mold lines but this is more of a model to try new tequniches out.
the catman
I think you really need to rewind and focus on the most basic aspects of painting. I would say don\'t even bother with highlights, shading, etc. for now, certainly not NMM. You need to get the hang of neat and careful paint application first.
I\'d suggest painting some models in flat colours, taking care to get the paint where it should be, applied in thin, smooth coats. Once you\'ve got the hang of that then you can start to move onto more advanced steps.
You also seem to make a lot of excuses about why you have taken apparent shortcuts with your work (not my best, painted in bad light, about a fifth of my full ability, no need for mould line removal due to it being a tester etc.) and this is just going to hold you back. Put your full effort into every mini you do and don\'t make excuses, regardless of how valid you feel they may be, and you can really start to improve.
I\'d suggest painting some models in flat colours, taking care to get the paint where it should be, applied in thin, smooth coats. Once you\'ve got the hang of that then you can start to move onto more advanced steps.
You also seem to make a lot of excuses about why you have taken apparent shortcuts with your work (not my best, painted in bad light, about a fifth of my full ability, no need for mould line removal due to it being a tester etc.) and this is just going to hold you back. Put your full effort into every mini you do and don\'t make excuses, regardless of how valid you feel they may be, and you can really start to improve.
the catman
New member
I can be neat and stuff look.
these are more examples of my work. the termie is an earlier model im trying nmm on because I need a model Iv painted quite badly.
and all these exuses-some I never said-painted in bad light I cant remeber saying-with the mold lines thats because it was an ealy model Iv done.-a fifth of my ability was an exachuration (sp.) but saying I am better than this. not my best-you could say to a slayer sword winner if they take the same amount of time on each model they do.of course not.
I know I nead to be neat but I have a very \"messy\" stlye were at the end I go back and finish of the model. lthe grey knight is an example because I never finished it. now a few years later im moving on to new harder things like nmm.
I do exept though that I need to be neater, but for example-the flying devil/thing is quite neat and so is the chaplain- I guess I should have said more at the beginig.
anyway Iv tried nmm and im ok at silver but I find gold impossible so im going to use this article to help me.
http://www.jrn-works.dk/
the catman
these are more examples of my work. the termie is an earlier model im trying nmm on because I need a model Iv painted quite badly.
and all these exuses-some I never said-painted in bad light I cant remeber saying-with the mold lines thats because it was an ealy model Iv done.-a fifth of my ability was an exachuration (sp.) but saying I am better than this. not my best-you could say to a slayer sword winner if they take the same amount of time on each model they do.of course not.
I know I nead to be neat but I have a very \"messy\" stlye were at the end I go back and finish of the model. lthe grey knight is an example because I never finished it. now a few years later im moving on to new harder things like nmm.
I do exept though that I need to be neater, but for example-the flying devil/thing is quite neat and so is the chaplain- I guess I should have said more at the beginig.
anyway Iv tried nmm and im ok at silver but I find gold impossible so im going to use this article to help me.
http://www.jrn-works.dk/
the catman
I already saw those and they aren\'t neat enough either to tell you the truth. They have areas where colour has been applied inconsistently or chalkily, and paint has got in areas where it shouldn\'t have. What\'s more, some of the work beyond the base colours, like the cherub\'s wings and red detail is particularly messy.
If I sound like I\'m being harsh, well I am, but until painters recognise they aren\'t as good as they think they are improvement is slow, and pretty much everything I\'ve seen from you on the forum suggests that you think you are vastly better than you are.
Once you start to focus on improving weak areas rather than trying to talk yourself and others around them you will get better.
So seriously, start with the basics, try and paint a mini in flat colours as neatly as you possibly can, using several coats of thinned paint for each area. Work on that brush control and the more advanced techniques will get easier as you move onto them because you have a solid foundation to build on.
Get it into your head that you are far from good enough and you will improve quicker than if you keep telling yourself you are at an accomplished level! This applies to complete beginners, experienced practitioners and even the very best, multi-prize-winning painters in the field.
If I sound like I\'m being harsh, well I am, but until painters recognise they aren\'t as good as they think they are improvement is slow, and pretty much everything I\'ve seen from you on the forum suggests that you think you are vastly better than you are.
Once you start to focus on improving weak areas rather than trying to talk yourself and others around them you will get better.
So seriously, start with the basics, try and paint a mini in flat colours as neatly as you possibly can, using several coats of thinned paint for each area. Work on that brush control and the more advanced techniques will get easier as you move onto them because you have a solid foundation to build on.
Get it into your head that you are far from good enough and you will improve quicker than if you keep telling yourself you are at an accomplished level! This applies to complete beginners, experienced practitioners and even the very best, multi-prize-winning painters in the field.
the catman
New member
I dont think im amazing because im not.
I may not be neat but I have and can be neat on models.
Im not sure what your trying to say either.
your saying I need to improve on being neat but im not \"allowed\" to try anything like nmm or even highlighting.???
ill put some pics tonight or tomorrow that have models that are neat AND have highlights that iv painted.
and also (im not trying to make you guilty) I havent had the 15 odd years in this hobby that most people have had. Im not even that old. Iv been in the hobby about 1 or 2 years and in that time I think iv got to an ok standard. you may not like it but I do.
What I think is the problem is that you think im expecting me to be amazing.
im not. I doupt I would get more than a 5 if I posted them in my gallery.
but if I always think of it as a
\"half empty\" glass I doupt I would get much better.
Ill also post some pics of a model I painted about halfway through my \"mini painting career\" and you will see Iv got much better.
and on the cherub yes it is messy on the wings but I was trying out to see what it would look like having brown highlighted with white.
the main aim of this model was just to try out having the least amount of colours on one model----four----. Im not sure I might just be copying of the stlye of john blanche but I like this stlye.
and also-today I tried out gold nmm. now I know I can not do it.
Im NOT trying to be harsh but saying that this is the way I paint. I CAN be neat but sometimes Im not.
so thanks for telling me I need to be neat but If I need to be neat (like if I enter gd)
and do tequniches(sp.) like nmm I will give it my all and probabbly do OK.
And I am going to enter gd. probabbly just yb but if I get time im going to enter something else like large scale or 40k monster.
the catman
I may not be neat but I have and can be neat on models.
Im not sure what your trying to say either.
your saying I need to improve on being neat but im not \"allowed\" to try anything like nmm or even highlighting.???
ill put some pics tonight or tomorrow that have models that are neat AND have highlights that iv painted.
and also (im not trying to make you guilty) I havent had the 15 odd years in this hobby that most people have had. Im not even that old. Iv been in the hobby about 1 or 2 years and in that time I think iv got to an ok standard. you may not like it but I do.
What I think is the problem is that you think im expecting me to be amazing.
im not. I doupt I would get more than a 5 if I posted them in my gallery.
but if I always think of it as a
\"half empty\" glass I doupt I would get much better.
Ill also post some pics of a model I painted about halfway through my \"mini painting career\" and you will see Iv got much better.
and on the cherub yes it is messy on the wings but I was trying out to see what it would look like having brown highlighted with white.
the main aim of this model was just to try out having the least amount of colours on one model----four----. Im not sure I might just be copying of the stlye of john blanche but I like this stlye.
and also-today I tried out gold nmm. now I know I can not do it.
Im NOT trying to be harsh but saying that this is the way I paint. I CAN be neat but sometimes Im not.
so thanks for telling me I need to be neat but If I need to be neat (like if I enter gd)
and do tequniches(sp.) like nmm I will give it my all and probabbly do OK.
And I am going to enter gd. probabbly just yb but if I get time im going to enter something else like large scale or 40k monster.
the catman
dude.... If you are going to continue to post your work for public critique and expect to have people try to help you improve you are going to have to stop being so defensive.
You say you don\'t want to be amazing, but you want to improve... Well... The advice you are receiving is how to improve... Not how to be amazing.
That being said, I agree with the comments that have been made about your work so far and if you think you can paint cleanly enough to take on the difficulties of NMM and generic highlighting then kudos for you... Go right ahead and keep doing what you\'re doing.... However, if you are looking to improve your overall abilities as a painter and want to get higher scores then start simple and build your way up as lono and others are trying to tell you.
You say you don\'t want to be amazing, but you want to improve... Well... The advice you are receiving is how to improve... Not how to be amazing.
That being said, I agree with the comments that have been made about your work so far and if you think you can paint cleanly enough to take on the difficulties of NMM and generic highlighting then kudos for you... Go right ahead and keep doing what you\'re doing.... However, if you are looking to improve your overall abilities as a painter and want to get higher scores then start simple and build your way up as lono and others are trying to tell you.
I do hear what your saying about being new to the hobby but many people here are pretty young and/or new to the hobby. Take me for example i aslo only started about 2 years ago but i think hat ive got to a decent standard and the way that ive got to this standard is through Practice.
If, for example, a top football player didn\'t train to their full potential every training sessipon and said that they would play better in a game they would never improve.
Agreeing wilth lono here, the best thing that you could d at the moment is paint a model that your really keen on, going really slow and methodically and finish it to the best of your ability. Yes you could try things like basic highlighting and so on but save the more advanced tequniques till later. The model may not score brilliently but you will proberly have picked up a few new tricks and skills just by doing the one mini and then the next one will be even beter and so on and so on.
Don\'t try to aim for the 9\'s and 10\'s straight away get there bit by bit.
I help this helps and i look forward to seeing some of your minis in the future.
Cheers James
If, for example, a top football player didn\'t train to their full potential every training sessipon and said that they would play better in a game they would never improve.
Agreeing wilth lono here, the best thing that you could d at the moment is paint a model that your really keen on, going really slow and methodically and finish it to the best of your ability. Yes you could try things like basic highlighting and so on but save the more advanced tequniques till later. The model may not score brilliently but you will proberly have picked up a few new tricks and skills just by doing the one mini and then the next one will be even beter and so on and so on.
Don\'t try to aim for the 9\'s and 10\'s straight away get there bit by bit.
I help this helps and i look forward to seeing some of your minis in the future.
Cheers James
Roger Bunting
New member
If I understand correctly, you\'ve already redone the armour? If you have and are not happy with it ot haven\'t then I suggest redoing the basecoat, with reasonably thin layers to get a smooth surface, and then do a wash of the colour of your choice. However, the case here I think is less is more. Don\'t overload the brush or the ink or paint will just pool up and leave tide marks. Try to apply the wash to the areas you want it to go.
I\'d change the colour of the sword hilt and pommel. That blue just seems out of place and clashes with the green.
On a general note, if you want advice on how to improve your skill levels, we need to see the models you consider are at the height of your current ability. That way people can give a more accurate appraisal.
I\'d change the colour of the sword hilt and pommel. That blue just seems out of place and clashes with the green.
On a general note, if you want advice on how to improve your skill levels, we need to see the models you consider are at the height of your current ability. That way people can give a more accurate appraisal.
the catman
New member
ok. thanks and I do understand what your saying. im not aming for the 9 or tens.
Im aiming to get better. I thought I made that quite obvous when I was saying how I tried stuff out.
bassicly I think your missing out on imortant stuff. so ill run you through.
I spent the first part of the hobby bying some space marines and painting them.-I was crap.
the next part was to \"open my eyes\" to all things not space marine. I went and got some sob and sucked at panting them.
then I tryed sculpting-Iv got quite far being able to sculpt whole figures with small amounts of detail.
then I had a break from the hobby.
at this time I was a (from the expression \"a jack of all trades\") 5 of all trades.
then a few months I got back in the hobby. now im trying to get myself better-I only get models I like. I try out new tequiniches (sp.) LIKE nmm. if I get crap results (like I did) I will stop doing that. I can get great stuff in just mm. Now Iv done a few models and tried stuff like freehand,nmm,blending,colour schemes and things that are more advanced. so far Im doing quite badly but Iv realised that given enough time im able to do some pretty cool things (in my opion).
like on the cherub I think that the cloth/parchment looks really good.
so now im doing the next thing.
Im probably going to enter the next conflict and see if I get anywere.
on this model im doing nmm and osl. not gold
if this goes well im entering the same model in yb. im also going to do more catogries if I can.
so Im being defensive because im not so experianced. Im not great Im just trying new things out.
the catman
Im aiming to get better. I thought I made that quite obvous when I was saying how I tried stuff out.
bassicly I think your missing out on imortant stuff. so ill run you through.
I spent the first part of the hobby bying some space marines and painting them.-I was crap.
the next part was to \"open my eyes\" to all things not space marine. I went and got some sob and sucked at panting them.
then I tryed sculpting-Iv got quite far being able to sculpt whole figures with small amounts of detail.
then I had a break from the hobby.
at this time I was a (from the expression \"a jack of all trades\") 5 of all trades.
then a few months I got back in the hobby. now im trying to get myself better-I only get models I like. I try out new tequiniches (sp.) LIKE nmm. if I get crap results (like I did) I will stop doing that. I can get great stuff in just mm. Now Iv done a few models and tried stuff like freehand,nmm,blending,colour schemes and things that are more advanced. so far Im doing quite badly but Iv realised that given enough time im able to do some pretty cool things (in my opion).
like on the cherub I think that the cloth/parchment looks really good.
so now im doing the next thing.
Im probably going to enter the next conflict and see if I get anywere.
on this model im doing nmm and osl. not gold
if this goes well im entering the same model in yb. im also going to do more catogries if I can.
so Im being defensive because im not so experianced. Im not great Im just trying new things out.
the catman
mickc22
Granddad!
basically get back to basics
get down to your nearest GW and ask for some painting lessons (I assume they still do \'em), it\'s easier when someone is actually showing rather than just telling,
you need to get your base colors smooth and even,
Highlights and shading, keep it simple, dark-mid-light
get these right then you can start moving on to more advanced techniques
If getting to GW is difficult ask your parents, if you seriously want to improve, about getting a CD/DVD
here are a couple of good ones
Rune Kappels\' CD
the brushes are quite good too
This DVD from Sascha Herm is excellent as well, he takes you right from start to finish. Sascha uses the 3 stage painting method
Hope you find this useful Catman, and take it how it was given, in good faith.
Don\'t go all \'Kevin & Perry\' on us
Practise, practise, practise
Mick
get down to your nearest GW and ask for some painting lessons (I assume they still do \'em), it\'s easier when someone is actually showing rather than just telling,
you need to get your base colors smooth and even,
Highlights and shading, keep it simple, dark-mid-light
get these right then you can start moving on to more advanced techniques
If getting to GW is difficult ask your parents, if you seriously want to improve, about getting a CD/DVD
here are a couple of good ones
Rune Kappels\' CD
the brushes are quite good too
This DVD from Sascha Herm is excellent as well, he takes you right from start to finish. Sascha uses the 3 stage painting method
Hope you find this useful Catman, and take it how it was given, in good faith.
Don\'t go all \'Kevin & Perry\' on us
Practise, practise, practise
Mick
Killing With A Smile
New member
Dude i wish you luck in the young bloods competition, there are some really nice stuff coming out of em this year so not being horrible but you do have to listen to these guys and start back to basics of tidying up your models. i.e. you cant have ANY part of your model with a little paint splash here or a little bit of red there.
But i totally see what you want, and you want to improve. So you\'ve asked these guys and they have told you different ways to improve. So take it onboard and dont be afraid to ask more questions, thats what this whole forum is for,
So all is good :drunk:
over and out..........
But i totally see what you want, and you want to improve. So you\'ve asked these guys and they have told you different ways to improve. So take it onboard and dont be afraid to ask more questions, thats what this whole forum is for,
So all is good :drunk:
over and out..........
Talonicus
New member
I understand everything you are saying, and it can be hard to take criticism but lono is only trying to help you.
The NUMBER ONE thing to get right every time is being neat. It doesnt matter how you do it, slapping on the bottom layers and tidying them up with the next layers and so on, or just applying them all neatly from the off as long as you do it. Everything on top of poorly applied base colours will not look right.
Being neat and precise is the corner stone of mini painting. This basic technique is the one that MUST be mastered.
Nigel
The NUMBER ONE thing to get right every time is being neat. It doesnt matter how you do it, slapping on the bottom layers and tidying them up with the next layers and so on, or just applying them all neatly from the off as long as you do it. Everything on top of poorly applied base colours will not look right.
Being neat and precise is the corner stone of mini painting. This basic technique is the one that MUST be mastered.
Nigel
Roger Bunting
New member
If we\'re recommending video tutorials, may I suggest TAB Studio\'s vids?
http://tabstudio.wordpress.com/
http://tabstudio.wordpress.com/
Best advice in 6 words:
Don\'t
Run
Before
You
Can
Walk
If you can get up to the point where you can get, say, a squad of figures up to a basic standard of neatness, where you\'d expect to score maybe 4-5 on submission, then you can go back to them and start with things like ink washes, freehand, blah-de-blah-de-blah.
And, keep doing as you\'re doing now and looking at other people\'s work - I see you regularly leaving quite good critique, and picking up on things.
Once you learn to see other\'s people\'s mistakes or weak points, you can avoid them yourself.
A wise man once said:
We learn through our mistakes.
A WISER man once said:
Is it better to learn by OTHER\'S mistakes.
lol
Don\'t
Run
Before
You
Can
Walk
If you can get up to the point where you can get, say, a squad of figures up to a basic standard of neatness, where you\'d expect to score maybe 4-5 on submission, then you can go back to them and start with things like ink washes, freehand, blah-de-blah-de-blah.
And, keep doing as you\'re doing now and looking at other people\'s work - I see you regularly leaving quite good critique, and picking up on things.
Once you learn to see other\'s people\'s mistakes or weak points, you can avoid them yourself.
A wise man once said:
We learn through our mistakes.
A WISER man once said:
Is it better to learn by OTHER\'S mistakes.
lol
Thunderhawker
New member
One thing I have seen here is that you may not be taking very good care of your brushes. You have obvious stray brush marks on what would otherwise have been relatively clean lines (the grey lines on the chaplian for instance). This will lead to poor coverage and loss of control. Try cleaning your brushes with some warm water and soap. If you have some hair conditioner use that afterwards and let it soak overnight. Rinse and you are ready to go. When you are cleaning your brushes make sure to get any caked paint out from the ferrule (the metal part) by using your nail or a toothpick. This will help the brushes keep a point.
