GW changes to cheaper materials and puts up prices.

[uglybug]

"solution: simply bend the hammer slightly out of place to paint behind it. This material is just pure awesome to work with! "

That cracks me up. maybe they need to get the guy from shamwow to demostrate just how great the new line is.

for those outside the U.S. just look up shamwow guy on youtube.

 

[nels0nmac]

So I went down to my local GW store to pick up my GD ticket for this year and also to have a chance to look at the "Finecast" stuff. First off you can't buy any metal figures in the stores now, it's all either plastic or resin. If a figure you are after hasn't been released in Finecast yet then the only way to get it is online.

The staff were banging on about how fantastic the finecast stuff is and I guess they were saying it so much that some of the customers were joining in as well....I guess it works in roughly the same way as jedi mind tricks. LOL. The figures that I saw did have slightly sharper detail, the edges that bit more clean but not what I would call a fantastic improvement, especially at the increased price.
I had a good look at the new clam packs to see what the quality of the minis was like. Roughly a third had defects that would not be present in the metal versions, by that I mean that there were bubbles in the castings or bits of silicone left imbeded in the resin. An ork boss + attack squig had quite a lot of silicone embeded in the detail which would have taken a while to clean out entirely...and assuming that wasn't the last one from that mold I pity the bugger that got the next casting.

All members of GW go on about how much easier it is to work with ( at least publicly).
--Yes it will probably be easier to clean mold lines - the examples I saw had lines smaller than most on a similar metal version
-- Yes it will be easier to stick together
-- Yes it will be easier to carve up models to convert them

-- but you will have to spend extra time filling in the air bubbles - I saw one above Skaven Warlord Queeks' eye which would be an absolute bugger to fill in nicely
- the staff mentioned that the cloak on Skulltaker is a bit of a mare for bubbles.
-- but you could get areas miscast where you loose detail
-- but although they do bend rather than snap.. I'm not convinced that the paint won't still chip if you bend the parts as much as in the GW pic
-- but if you get one pulled out of the mold too soon you will have to use some hot water/steam to be able to straighten it out again.

The staff member in question also mentioned that part of an Eldar Farseer that he was looking at may have been miscast as opposed to just damaged.... this something pulled straight from a new box..... says a lot about the quality control!!!

So some handy hints if you do want to spend the 10% extra on GW "Finecast" products.
1-Buy from the shops where you can actually check the goods.
2-Search through the clam packs to find one which is actually a good mold and not full of bubbles/silicone.
3- If you buy a box set where you can't see the product, open the box before you leave the shop to check that you haven't been sold a duff set.

 

[Master of fact]

Picked up abaddon today. I was of two minds buying but did anyway. I think i got lucky and the model was quite easy to clean however there was a tiny bit of pink stuff in a recess and it was an utter bastard to remove. I guess it was a bit of the mold although unsure.

I asked if it was safe to cut ect and the manager said yes HOWEVER when questioned about sanding or filing i was told dont do it as the file will just chew through the resin... So i asked again and got the same response. So i am guessing it is not safe to do so....

 

[Talion]

These are beginning to sound more and more as utter shite. Lets hope it's a fad, or they improve their system.

If you buy one take it home and realise it's a complete mess, how do you think they'll be if you return it as damaged to the shop?

 

[skraaal]

We'll see on Tuesday as I'll be returning the Librarian in Terminator armor that I bought today then. So I'll let you know, but as far as I'm aware it'll have to be replaced as it is a defective product.

 

[Master of fact]

Im going to stand up for GW here, in regards to miscasts i have always recieved a replacement AND got to keep the defective one.

However here is a size comparison of the new Abaddon

 

[freakinacage]

Im going to stand up for GW here, in regards to miscasts i have always recieved a replacement AND got to keep the defective one.

that's true, not that i have had a miscast but problems have been replaced. looks like this could be a more normal appearance now

even the photo on the site has flaws on it:

 

[finn17]

even the photo on the site has flaws on it:

Well spotted Hawkeye...

 

[montka]

I think encouraging children to model with resin is taking it a but far - isn't it toxic when inhaled.

My only surprise is that cmon members are surprised by gws actions - as if they had ethical standards to break.

 

[Torn blue sky]

However here is a size comparison of the new Abaddon

This is why a guy asked me to convert and paint a new one for him using the termie lord as a chasis. Talk about lazy, pull your finger out GW. Luckily I had the old Abbadon laying about and I noticed a HUGE difference in size next to the lord. He looked like a f*cking dwarf! Some warmaster...

 

[montka]

I think encouraging children to model with resin is taking it a but far - isn't it toxic when inhaled.

My only surprise is that cmon members are surprised by gws actions - as if they had ethical standards to break.

Actually thinking about it how exactly are high prices unethical? The fans who still buy the models must think them a reasonable purchase. I've seen parents in the stores happily part with £200 on some space marines to keep their child happy doing something constructive.

What sucks is that the games systems were created for adults, but gw has found its proffered market selling space marines to children. (80% of gw sales come from space marines)
Since 80% of gw model sales are space marines, they price these as highly as they can, and many hobbyists are prepared to pay these prices for admittedly awesome models.

The suffering and frustration that is being caused is from the fact that the plethora of races and games systems that gw developed as it grew are not the main source of revenue for the company, they are a byline for hardcore fans making rare purchases, at the same maxed out prices as the small elite space marine armies, even though the enthusiast wants a horde army.

To make matters worse the balancing and 'development' of these armies is controlled by market forces, hence the 'one upping' phenomen of ever more powerful armies and limited by short sighted developers.

So it sucks because gw created a great fantasy world that just kept developing as new potential was explored and more talent was drawn to the gw banner, but its all coming crashing down since the company is now purely directed by the dictates of the almighty dollar, and will blindly run itself into the ground having no clue about the values it has betrayed.

I was trying to make an argument that it is not unethical to cater to the children's market, and it is not unethical to charge what the market will bear. (I don't go to Costa and complain my coffee should be £1.50 not £2.50 because that's all I can afford.) Supply and demand effects our whole lifestyle from accommodation to cars and musical instruments. I'm sure there was a hefty markup on my fender but I don't complain, I love the sound.

What is a shame is that the warhammer game had a lot of promise and magic, but that is gone now. Gw did not have an obligation to keep it going the way it was if they could make better money flogging blood angels. It's not how we would have run the company as fans, but obviously capitalist investors do not see it that way.

If their schemes over pricing fall down on their heads and the company collapses on their heads I will feel vindicated and not surprised. But it will not be an ethical dimension, just a personal distaste for the way they've let things slide.

There is a bright side though, now I want to look into games that are affordable and fun, and one day start writing my own content

 

[Sorry Wrong Number]

I have been collecting and painting miniatures since the 80's. I gave up on GW around 2005. Hearing about the finecast stuff made me interested again. I thought resin may mean cheaper minis...

Damn I'm silly.

 

[mud duck]

@Montka. I wonder if they aren't planing to run out their Specialist Games line again. For whatever reason I pick up the latest White Dwarf and lo and behold they are advertising open/big games of Blood Bowl, BFG, Mordheim, Necro, and Epic at Games Day Chicago. I wonder if they are not planning to run those minis in "Finecast", and possibly backing those systems more? I think that you could get more people playing, say Necromunda, if you could convert the @#$@# models easier! Heck I even think that the Inquisitor line would be more appealing in resinplastic. Now if GW only stops, takes and breath, and works out the bugs in the first couple of runs on these models the world may continue turning.

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

Wow this thread is going on and on. I did go to GW today to pick up a greenstuff sculpting tool (which they don't have in my local independent). It was pretty full with people playing games and seemingly only one member of staff (unless the others were on lunch but it didn't seem the right time for lunch). My nearest GW is not a small place, last time I went they had a "battle bunker" upstairs as well as the downstairs shop and gaming area (space for 5 gaming tables downstairs plus all the products). It appeared they were cutting staff costs, as it was empty of staff. When I last when in a GW (admittedly a long time ago) there was about 4 staff sometimes 5. I did feel a bit sorry for the guy as the shop was full of kids and parents asking him questions and he was running about trying to answer them all. He'd clearly been told to plug finecast but he seemed friendly and wasn't pushing it, just stated that they seemed more detailed with the new material and had a quick chat with me. I was relieved to find the whole "what army do you collect? Oh you want one of these, let me get it off the shelf for you, take a look at that it's awesome buy it" theme seemed to have totally gone (it was a real feature years and years ago when I was last in) and he didn't seem bothered about selling stuff, was more into helping people game, answering questions, and being friendly.

Everywhere in the shop they had the finecast signs and all the bags had finecast on them with posters about it everywhere. As I was there I did have a look and I'll be honest they did look good. There was a lot of detail and I didn't see any "air bubbles", bits of mold or miscasts. I can't speak for how well the material lasts with it being able to bend a bit nor how well the paint lasts if a model is bent after being painted, but they seemed fine (haha geddit!).

As for the price well I assume the prices were the new increased prices. Well the sticker price for 5 Wyrd mini's was £25 (Warmachine blister seemed comparable to that), and you can get 5 GW models in a boxed set for about £25, so I don't think GW prices were excessive. However the special characters seemed a bit insane, which I thought was odd. You could have 5 troopers for 25 or you could have on special character for about £23 in some cases :O That was a bit of a shock.

Personally I don't think GW will go under and I certainly don't want it to. What ever you say about it it brings people into the hobby and as they get older they probably move to other games away from GW. It brings in new blood to wargaming and painting and that can only be a good thing. Sure it's a corporation and out for profit but what isn't these days? I don't understand all the intense GW hating, they paved the way for the likes of Malifaux and Warmachine success. I can't say I'll be buying much from GW as I have a load of old stuff from them already bought well over 10 years ago and am the slowest painter in the world, but if something awesome came out I could well be tempted (but that's true of any other company).

 

[SkelettetS]

copied from chest of colours forum, doesnt look good, not good at all! and obviously not an isolated incident..

 

[Talion]

copied from chest of colours forum, doesnt look good, not good at all! and obviously not an isolated incident..

That's extremely bad. In fact extremely amature for resin casting

Kids playing the game won't really care about the quailty to much, but I can see GW having a hell of a lot of returns coming to them from us painters. I would expect a replacement or refund if I had something of this poor quality.

As a consumer would this class as inferior goods, or have they got some get out clause that says they this a is satisfactory risk when purchasing minis???

EDIT: It would be good if those who have delt with GW customer service regarding problem finecast minis to leave comments on how they were treated when trying to return their minis

 

[DVS Design]

I hung out in one of my local stores Saturday and even picked up a new finecast Coteaz to paint. Yes the detail is a bit crisper and that will be a little better with future models that have been done entirely through the rapid prototyping software they are using now. The flash was very easy to clean. But still all most every fig I saw through the day had some for of miss cast missing fingers larger bubbles in bad places and mold rubber still stuck in corners.

I think it's a fantastic thing for larger models but the smaller characters and such with this current process will just be disaster for new painters and the younger crowds. And the worst thing ever for playable armies. As things constantly brake. Over all not a up grade and most definitely not worth the added price. I will still get a model I like now and again but as for getting back to playing I think that part of the hobby is done for me.

In short for every good thing this has done they have done something equally as bad in the process

 

[Master of fact]

I am not a bit happy. Cleaned my abaddon and started to paint. He snapped at the trophy rack with application of a brush. grrrrr

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

I am not a bit happy. Cleaned my abaddon and started to paint. He snapped at the trophy rack with application of a brush. grrrrr

:O Yikes! How far into the painting did you get?

 

[Master of fact]

They were the first thing i started. I gave it up as a bad job. The material is crap. It is sooooo soft my nail scrathed a gouge out of his face when i was putting the head in. So yes £14.50 down the drain. I salvaged the claw and sword so will convert a chaos lord. My mate bob thought it was funny as the model killed 2 squads of berserkers and Kharn yesterday. MOOHAA!