Have you noticed...?

[Errex]

That most NMM pieces out there do not include shots from behind or sidewise?
Why is that?, Would it be that the whole NMM thing is just a fancy gimmick, and that the minis look good just because the picture is taken from their only \"good angle\"?.

I have this theory that a mini painted with metallics will always look better than a NMM mini in real life, because light reflects dynamically over the surface, as opossed to the fixed reflections forced upon the viewer by the NMM school.

 

[ZaPhOd]

I have wondered this sort of thing as well. As you can see from my work, I have not done any NMM yet. The reflective NMM makes me really wonder how it would look from a different angle. It is like airbrushing art for a comic pic or a 2D pose.

 

[Lowrianne]

Oh good, I won\'t get burned at the stake then for saying... why do NMM if there are metallic paints. The metallic paints (IMHO) give the metal look, and they give true light reflection as the mini is moved...in the light.

I do have to admit, I find the NMM look neat, but I know I am not ready for it yet. I am working on a Empire Steam tank and they suggested Mitheral Silver. I am using boltgun metal with some black ink wash to give it a more, real metal look. I hope to have it up in awhile. Still working on it. Detailed little bugger.

 

[sivousplay]

The point you bring up is an interesting one, but I don\'t think it applies only to NMM. I think it applies to all techniques that rely on \"over highlighting\" to make things stand out. I think anything done in excess is going to have problems like you mention, but if it\'s done right, NMM can give the metallic surfaces a lot more depth and character than metallic paints can. To me, NMM doesn\'t mean lots of false highlights, it means using non-metallic paints to make things look metallic; there\'s a difference ... it may be subtle, but there\'s a difference.

I\'ve only done a few minis NMM (mostly Alchemists from Rackham and they\'re posted here). Do they have lots of big shiny spots? No. But, I think the armor has a nice depth to it that is more difficult to achieve w/ metallic paints.

About the front/back pics ... I think most people just post one pic \'cause it\'s easier than creating a collage of multiple pics. If you go to the artists web pages, you\'ll find plenty of front & back shots that don\'t support the \"it only looks good from one side theory.\"

jim

 

[Thri-Keen Priest]

NMM

I\'ve always been a metallic man, myself, but I must admit, seeing some of the NMM work on this board makes me wanna give it a try... Maybe soon...

 

[McCragge]

NMM is the easy stuff, it is the Sky-Earth NMM that is a pain in the...well you know.

I like the NMM look myself, not because people are trying to fool you into making it look like metal without metal, but rather the cartooning effect it has. To me it looks more appealing. After all most of the miniatures we paint are fantasy and sci-fi, which look better with cartooning type effects. (Exagerated highlights and shadows, outlining, etc) When you get into larger and more realistic scales (Like those produced by Verlinden) NMM becomes inappropriate.

McCragge

 

[slappingpaint]

to quote \"That most NMM pieces out there do not include shots from behind or sidewise\" end quote

perhaps some people don\'t know how to merge photos? ;-) they just take their best pictures, and upload it.

but to me, NMM is a way to simulate a light source from one direction and also, if done well, a way to give the model a bit more depth. sure, using metallic paints are easier, but I\'ve found I can only get so much detail with them. when I\'ve done NMM gold, I think it looks much better than metallic gold.

for a back picture of these models
http://www.coolminiornot.com/index.php?id=2664
click here
http://www.slappingpaint.net/3_templarback.JPG

but I\'ve done a guy with metal armor
http://www.coolminiornot.com/index.php?id=3160
and I\'ve found out, layering metallic paints isn\'t as easy as I thought it would. the reflections from the paint were throwing me off.

but have you seen the new goblin adventerer from rackham? they painted reflections on his blades! a checker pattern no less! now, that is amazing.

-Craig

 

[hagness]

why nmm...

Not that I\'m any good with it myself, but I own enough pieces from the previous posters that I think I can provide some insight into why it works for me.

I think that everyone agrees that highlighting and shading is essential for a real-looking miniature. No artist would paint a 2D picture without them if their goal was realism. But why exaggerate highlights and do NMM? Besides the fact that it\'s aesthetically pleasing to some people (i.e., the cartoony effect appeals to them), there is a good reason why I insist on it:

Most of the time, I do not have good lighting to view my minis under. What good is having average highlighting if you can\'t even see it unless I take the mini out of the case and hold it under a spotlight? And I use real low lighting for actual gaming, no fluorescent lighting for me. The brighter the highlights the better, and if it looks cartoony under good lighting, then it will look normal under my lighting.

Besides, you have to pick *some* location for the light source (unless you don\'t do highlighting at all). Doesn\'t it make sense for it to be much brighter in some places than others? Not only do different fabrics reflect differently, but different colors reflect differently also.

Reflection of sunlight or even torchlight from polished metal is blindingly bright in some spots. Using metallics simply can\'t recreate the effect of highlighting on metal. You\'re not even using a 2D effect, much less a 3D one. Even if you do a good job of shading over the top of a metallic, the brightness is still not realistic. NMM is simply doing what canvas painters have been doing for centuries - making the metal look realistic. If you\'re not going to bother doing that with the metal, why bother doing it with anything else on the mini?

 

[Warlord Pyanka]

NMM

NMM does not always look better than metallic paint. it depends on the skill of the painter. i\'m a metallic man myself but my brother is an NMM freak. i hate to brag but his nmms are flat and look really weird. but here i just have to bag myself out. i never highlight on metals. i reckon they look just fine by themselves. big mistake. my bolt gun metal weapons are just crying out to be drybrushed with chainmail.

Cheers
Boss Pyanka a.k.a Jarryd

 

[r2-j1]

The center of the NMM vs. metalic issue is scale I think.

For example, it is true that a mini\'s sword does reflect light like a real metal object. But the light reflected is that of an actual 1 inch metal sword and not that of a real sword that would be around 3 feet or so.

On a full size sword you would see several different tones from various light sources and reflections from objects around it. A miniature\'s sword would only pick up a very tiny segment of the reflections in any given enviornment.

That is where NMM comes in. I feel that it scales down the highlights and tries to give the effect of a full size sword in a small scale.

R2

 

[kahoolin]

my opinion is that nmm looks absolutely great, if done well(i am crap at it) and it really makes a smooth finish. I dont think that there is an issue of if there are metallic paints why use nmm.....if you can do both you\'re plain talented and lucky

metallic paint can look very tacky, really look hard at metal, and then miniaturise it (i know this sounds dumb) but nmm REALLY is more realistic looking, and i have to learn how to do it!!!!

 

[Dragonsreach]

Ok I\'ve got to stick my oar in on this, I\'ve recently started to use a magnifier on my glasses, (reading ones for painting only) and have noticed the immence granularity of metallic paints when viewed close up. This is what is making NMM more popular.
In order to get reasonable metallics they need to be thinned with inks and general paints to get both shadings and graduations.
One thing that very few painters seem to pick up on is the reflective nature of metallics on miniatures. I\'ve recently tried to add a touch of light blues to the metallics on upper surfaces, imitating sky, and darkening the lower surfaces, imitating the ground.
I\'ve had a limited success to my view with this and am reworking the mini to improve this effect.

If anyone is interested there is a website : \'http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp\' which has an excellent dissertation on the subject of reflections. The site is primarily aimed at Fantasy painters but everything on there can be appilied to Miniature painters. (Hey some of us are artists after all!)

So back to the subject, NMM is great and works, to my view, very well on Iron/steel, but not as well on golds. The reason I believe for this is the reflective nature of metals, which I havn\'t seen work on golds (Yet).

No doubt someone will be able to identify Gold reflections working on a mini, till then, good painting.

 

[LavronYor]

IMHO Vincent Hudon\'s Magmatrax looks great from any angle, and his tutorial is one of the best out there. and it features primarily GOLD.

and it makes my humble skills envious.
something to aspire to.

 

[Ogrebane]

Once again I see this debate rages. I dont understand why people are down on NMM or SENMM. It is impossible to do chrome effects (or pollished metal) with metalic paints. The grain of the paint is just too big for 25 - 35 mm miniatures. I have seen some really great metal painters but have yet to see a polished steel effect with metallic paint (Waiting for someone to prove me wrong). NMM is a valid style just like dry brushing and washes. If you follow what some people are saying then why even high light and shade just paint every thing one color. The reason why this is done is to fool the eye into seeing the details as you would if the mini was normal (?) size. I wonder if the people that bash NMM do it because they cant paint like that or are just jealous of people who can. I have only tried a few NMM minis myself but one thing it is teaching me is patience and how to blend. Whilst I am no expert myself I know if I continue to practice it I will get better overall as a painter. So bak to why paint NMM when there is metal paint, well I guess cause its there, it looks good (when done well) and its a great way to learn how to do layering and blending. OK bring it on!!

 

[Trevor]

@ Dragonsreach

I\'m curious, over 3 years on, have you seen any convincing NMM gold yet?


@ Lavron

You know its dangerous to wake sleeping threads? Careful, you never know what may happen...

 

[Albert Moreto Font]

is more nmm being painted lately or real metallics?

 

[Infidel Castro]

Albert, more metallics are used generally across the board, but NMM is growing. It\'s only worth its salt if done well and you\'ll see lots of bad examples of it. Metallics are still used by GW, so the knock-on effect from that alone is the largest sector of the gaming market alongside WoC.

 

[Albert Moreto Font]

hehe yeah you\'re rightthnx

 

[Legacy Account]

Aaaargh!

Threadomancy is afoot!

 

[Minigrrrl]

Errex, couldn\'t agree more! Ok, that doesn\'t stop me using NMM on my Rackham stuff, and even the occasional GW mini, but I only use it on the ones that are very heavy on the frontal posing/viewpoint. IE, Games Day kroot that i\'ll post up in a few days.