Health Care question

[Elly3438]

I just got finished watching the movie \"Sicko,\" by Michael Moore. It was kind of depressing, bringing up things Americans don\'t normally think of on a daily basis. But, he displays only what he wants his audience to see, and it very well can be exaggerated (comeon it\'s MM hehe) so I have to ask to all non U.S. residents:
What is your health care like? Do you like it? What problems have you had with it? How do you think it is compared to the United States\' crappy insurance company controlled health care?
It just made it me disgusted with the way these insurance companies screw and even sentence people to death. Even with car insurance these days, it\'s like pulling teeth to try and get them to pay for anything... and with health insurance companies, they try and only insure young and healthy individuals so the they can collect the premiums and never have to pay out, ruling out people with pre-existing conditions, or denying things that shouldn\'t be denied. So that\'s why I am interested in countries with a national health care plan, how it works in your country and if you are happy with it.
Thanks!! :beer:

 

[Yramrag]

Ok lets see, in Australia we have Medicare for people without private insurance.
This is my experience of it so other people will have different stories. YOu nned to see a doctor, so you find one that will Bulk Bill (i.e. take Medicare). Normally they don\'t Bulk Bill on the weekend or late in the evening although there are still plenty that do. You go, see the doctor, sign the paper and the doctor claims back his time from the government. This works well until certain doctors decide to \"exaggerate\" the amount of people they have seen. Other treatments (like psychologist) can now be seen by Medicare patients and the psych will charge them $90 for the hour, for which Medicare will re-imburse about $75. Seeing a fully qualified psych for $15? Pretty damn good value.
Pro: No money to pay. Or very little.
Con: Having to wait up to 2 hours to see a doctor for a general prescription. More specialised treatment is not covered.
With private insurance, you go see any doctor, pay the bill, get a receipt and then send it in to you Health Insurer and get a certain amount of money back. My wife got glasses, and she got about $200 back. She can do this about once every two years. Dental is also covered under some schemes. Also if you take it out while you are under 30, you pay less. Every year above 30, you pay an additional 1% until you have been with them for 10 years or more.
Pro: expensive treatment comes in a lot cheaper, greater pick of doctors, shorter waiting times
Cons: the annual cost, also worthless in a car accident. Better of getting treatment under Traffic Accident Commission money.
If you don\'t have private health care and you earn over a certain amount, you then have to pay back quite a lot of many in tax to cover the system.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Well Im self employed and purchase my own health insurance

I pay $170.00 a month for a policy with a $2500.00 deductible and then 80/20 there after.. as in they cover 80% I pay 20% and I have a $25.00 co pay when I see the Dr. for anything and pay $15.00 for prescriptions.

In February I had surgery on my knee to remove a loose foreign body.. a big piece of torn cartilage. It cost over $10,000 for a surgery that lasted less than 25 minutes and less than a 4 hour stay in an out patient surgery center. I also hd a MRI, pre opp physical and 12 physical therapy appointments.

So, I come out ahead having my own insurance, but Im still screwed..but hey I have knee that not in pain 24 hours a day and I can bend it fully now and walk fine.

Now I just have to finish off paying the $3000.00

 

[Dragonsreach]

We have the National Health Service, paid for via direct contribution from salary (ie Taxation). It covers all aspects of medical care, although trying to find a NHS dentist these days is a rarity. (I\'ve taken out personal dental insurance).

This system would work fine except for the abuses that are being heaped on it by too many years of Political Footballing, Lack of personal responsibility for our health and other factors.
With our NHS you would expect \"level playing field\" treatment throughout the country, however that is not the case. We are constantly hearing about how differing NHS Trust areas are refusing a specific treatment on cost grounds, while only a few miles away the same treatment is funded by the neighbouring NHS Trust.
Add to that the recent political decision that anyone living in Wales does not have to pay for their prescriptions, Scotland is I understand going to go the same way. While the rest of the UK has to pay, bit of an inequality there.

Now don\'t get me wrong if it hadn\'t been for NHS treatment I\'d be ashes long ago and my wife would probably have never been able to afford the Chemotherapy and reconstruction that she\'s had.

Overall our Health system works pretty well, but it could be better managed and our own responsibility to maintain our health made more of a requirement.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

New Zealand has a public funded system which works well for the most part. To much money goes into management and paper pushing and some waiting lists are to long for elective surgery but in general it is ok.

The thing that I would like to verify about the American system is something I heard in a radio interview about the merits of various systems. The figures that were quoted is that despite the private insurance in America the USA has one of the highest government spend on health care in the world. So Americans pay twice - through taxes AND insurance.

 

[Legacy Account]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach

Overall our Health system works pretty well, but it could be better managed and our own responsibility to maintain our health made more of a requirement.

Unfortunately that\'ll never happen. Do you stop treating smokers and drinkers? How much/many a day makes you untreatable? Do you refuse a biker treatment because they weren\'t wearing leathers, or a driver because they were driving like an idiot?

\"Sorry, I\'m afraid your BMI is too high. I suggest starving yourself and running five miles a day. Come back in three weeks!\"

It\'ll never happen - it\'s completely against everything that medicine stands for. I think the best we could hope for would be for a change in the social acceptability of such things.

The NHS would save billions if everyone kept their appointments as well. They should slap a 50 quid surcharge on uncancelled, missed appointments....

 

[supervike]

I think John Stossel, my libertarian hero has got the Health Care thing right.

He suggests the free market would fix it.

And he has a decent section with Michael Moore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I&feature=related

It\'s very informative, and very interesting.

 

[airhead]

Michael Moore is a manipulative socialist that hates the U.S.

Canada has socialized medicine similar to what one of our candidates is pushing for. Yet Canadians that have money and need major surgery come across the boarder to the US to get it. ???

Mike, I\'ve heard for years that the UK has an unofficial two-tier system of health care - socialized for the masses, and better for pay for those who can afford it?

I work, my employer has a group health plan as does my wife place of work. We examined options and it is cheapest for us to put it all on my paycheck. About $500 a month for my family. But Averi\'s birth only cost me about $500, so I don\'t complain.

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
The thing that I would like to verify about the American system is something I heard in a radio interview about the merits of various systems. The figures that were quoted is that despite the private insurance in America the USA has one of the highest government spend on health care in the world. So Americans pay twice - through taxes AND insurance.

I\'ve seen the chart, and yes, the US government spends the most percentage-wise on healthcare. I don\'t know what makes up those numbers, so it could be medical research or MRI purchases, etc. I just saw it this last week, but I can\'t find it.

One story I can relate was the local paper in California was talking about the local hospital\'s annual report. This is out in the Mojave Desert, so disconnected from LA. It had $10 million in bills that it sent out to patients. They collected only $5 million of that and took the other half as a loss as noncollectable. So, what really happened was that the half of the people who paid their bills paid for the other half of the group\'s treatment.

If you know you\'re going to be robbed by 50% of your customers, it only makes sense to raise your prices to accommodate.

Another story. My father is self-employed and has several employees. He\'s required to pay for state insurance for injury or disability. For a long time, whenever someone was hurt on the job, he\'d pay the bills himself and the employee would get a shop job until they were better. And paying cash at the doctor? Most private practices will knock 25% off of the bill just because they don\'t have the paperwork headaches of the insurance company to deal with. Back to the story. He had one employee hurt, but decided to use the insurance option from the state government. It was a fairly large bill, which was probably why. Anyway, his insurance payments to the state doubled, and wound up costing him four times more than just paying the bill himself. He\'s never done it since, and his required insurance payments are back down.

Guess the point of all of this is that if people would take the responsibility to pay their own way and not have a bumbling government interfering, the cost would be a lot less.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by airhead
Michael Moore is a manipulative socialist that hates the U.S.

I don\'t think so. I mean, when he had his Gastric Bypass surgery he didn\'t seem to hate to U.S....as even after tauting how great Cuba and Canada\'s systems were, he still elected to have it done here, in the states...

Do as he says, not as he does.

 

[MPJ]

As a Canadian who lived two years in the USA I must say I\'d take the US system any day over our crappy \'free\' one. You get what you pay for as the saying goes.

Heck, I even have a Critical Illness insurance policy on myself so if something serious happens I have the funds to go to the US and pay to have proper medical treatment.

 

[alextheartist]

Originally posted by airhead

Mike, I\'ve heard for years that the UK has an unofficial two-tier system of health care - socialized for the masses, and better for pay for those who can afford it?

There are private health companies, such as Bupa, which provide a private care. There is less of a waiting list for private (for big ops) and the accomodations are slighty better, with 100% private rooms.

I don\'t know about most hospitals in UK, but i was hospitalised for a week last year and found the care to be pretty good, there was even a games room with tv, ps2s 360s, internet a pool table (i didnt enjoy it that much, due to the pain and all..). The wards were clean and the food was satisfactory (well it was pre prepared crap, but i guess thats what most people eat). A little bit understaffed, but not terribly so.

In my opinion, its not really worth paying the extra, unless you live in an area which has a notoriously bad hospital or you need an op quickly

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by airhead
Mike, I\'ve heard for years that the UK has an unofficial two-tier system of health care - socialized for the masses, and better for pay for those who can afford it?

It\'s not unofficial. Since the inception of the National Health Service in the Late 1940\'s the option to pay for private treatment was left open.
This enabled Wealthy Consultants and Specialist Doctors to remain in Private Practise as well as operate within the NHS. Any Patient can opt at any time to \"Go Private\" for more speedy assessment and treatment and utilise this option for a single instance of illness, Or multiple illnesses.
This was at one stage one of the worst problems within the NHS, where Private treatments and consultations overtook the NHS patients to the detrimant of the service and helped to build on the decline of the NHS treatment turnaround. Successive Govt interventions have improved the situation where now Consultants cannot directly reschedule NHS consultancies in favour of private.

The mention of BUPA above can be a little misleading as BUPA is an independant medical company which can be joined as an Insurance. In fact quite a large number of Companies operating in the UK (ie EDS) utilise this company as a option for staff and their families, paying a substancial percentage of the insurance.
BUPA runs medical treatment centres and Hospitals throughout the country with a good reputation and record.

As for current NHS hospitals, well I\'ve had to spend far too much time recently visiting them. Conditions are not as \"Draconian\" as they were back in the 50/60\'s, in fact they are relatively comfortable as any hospital could be. Each Patient has access to an individual TV/Telephone/internet access but at somewhat expensive (ie extrtionate) rates.

There are problems with post operative infections and infection control, (MRSA) but these are being address quite severely with stringent measures being actively taken and demonstrated as a matter of course by the staff.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie

Unfortunately that\'ll never happen. Do you stop treating smokers and drinkers? How much/many a day makes you untreatable? Do you refuse a biker treatment because they weren\'t wearing leathers, or a driver because they were driving like an idiot?

\"Sorry, I\'m afraid your BMI is too high. I suggest starving yourself and running five miles a day. Come back in three weeks!\"

It\'ll never happen - it\'s completely against everything that medicine stands for. I think the best we could hope for would be for a change in the social acceptability of such things.

The NHS would save billions if everyone kept their appointments as well. They should slap a 50 quid surcharge on uncancelled, missed appointments....

should slap more on than that!

they shouldn\'t refuse treatment but i feel that some sort of system should be in place to charge people more if they don\'t look after themselves. smokers cost the nhs a ridiculous amount. don\'t give me the crap that they pay for it with the tax on their ciggies. smokers tend to come in more often and they stay up 30% longer than non smokers. if a smoker needs and angiogram, the catheters alone will cost about a grand, and thats ignoring staff there, drugs, stay and other equipment. people don\'t realise how ridiculously expensive medical equipment is. life insurance people can do it, i see no reason why the nhs can\'t. you live a ndangerous life, you pay the price

i think the french have it right, as i understand it. there is help there for those who can\'t afford it but those who can make a contribution, at least then they won\'t abuse the system as it is.

and dont get me started on prescriptions and differences within the uk. free prescriptions in wales but not in england?! whats that all about? it\'s all payed for by the british government so everyone else is paying the bill.

take for example a new rheumatoid arthritis treatment, cost £9k a year per person, which is a lot for one person to pay but the about 4k people will need it which will cost the government £36million where does the money come from?

 

[alextheartist]

Each Patient has access to an individual TV/Telephone/internet access but at somewhat expensive (ie extrtionate) rates.

You can also now use mobile phones in some hospitals. When i was in hospital last year, everything apart from the internet was free (might have been cos i was under 18 though).

Yeh, i didnt think Bupa was the best example, but i couldnt think of any others at the time

Alex

 

[No Such Agency]

I am so staying out of this. I\'ve seen what happens when people discuss health care on the internet. Why don\'t we just throw abortion and personal religious beliefs into the discussion, until we\'ve ALL said something ignorant and rude?

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by No Such Agency
I am so staying out of this. I\'ve seen what happens when people discuss health care on the internet. Why don\'t we just throw abortion and personal religious beliefs into the discussion, until we\'ve ALL said something ignorant and rude?

I think we should all be able to abolish abortion, provided you aren\'t a freaking protestant. Plus, any abortions should be paid for by the state....you stupid bastards!

(like that NSA?)

lollol

 

[Elly3438]

Well NSA, I was just looking for information and opinions from others, just a friendly discussion... of course, as with most things of this nature, it could go bad... lol
I haven\'t had any problems with the US healthcare system, but then again, I\'ve always had insurance through my employer, or I never got sick or hurt when I didn\'t have insurance.
My mom recently had to enter the hospital for some problems, ended up in there unnecessarily long, and ended up having unnecessary tests done her. Also, a doctor would come in while she was sleeping, look at her clipboard, and then sent a bill for $500 to them because he wasn\'t on my parent\'s insurance plan. How crooked is that, never even met the guy, yet they get a bill. They are still fighting collections for another instance, where they paid a certain amount of money they owed, and the insurance company made a bookeeping error and refuses to look at the receipts and proof that it was paid... they still insist on getting paid... twice...
To me, America\'s health system is get everyone sick with McD\'s and Taco Bell, then send em to the hospital to get all drugged up, which causes problems which the docs only counter with other drugs, and eventually you have a whole list of ailments and drugs you take... It\'s very non-preventative in nature, with the pharmaceutical companies raking in the dough.. why would you want to fix someone with a one-time cure, when you can have a life long customer? It\'s all about the money...

I have to say I don\'t think a national health care system would work in the US... they technically already have one anyways (hospitals aren\'t supposed to deny you treatment if you come in, the are supposed to stabilize you and send you on your way, even if you are poor and don\'t pay em) though, and I just don\'t think I would trust the US government to put their hands in much of anything these days... hehe It\'s tough because even with regulating insurance companies and lowering the cost, most poor people wouldn\'t buy insurance anyways. But I still believe in regulating them to a point, I\'m not all about the take advantage of others or disregard everything including the planet Earth just for the sake of making a dollar....

Anyways I\'m rambling... any other takes on the health care systems overseas? This is very interesting to me~
:drunk:

 

[Legacy Account]

Originally posted by freakinacage

they shouldn\'t refuse treatment but i feel that some sort of system should be in place to charge people more if they don\'t look after themselves. smokers cost the nhs a ridiculous amount. don\'t give me the crap that they pay for it with the tax on their ciggies. smokers tend to come in more often and they stay up 30% longer than non smokers. if a smoker needs and angiogram, the catheters alone will cost about a grand, and thats ignoring staff there, drugs, stay and other equipment. people don\'t realise how ridiculously expensive medical equipment is. life insurance people can do it, i see no reason why the nhs can\'t. you live a ndangerous life, you pay the price

i think the french have it right, as i understand it. there is help there for those who can\'t afford it but those who can make a contribution, at least then they won\'t abuse the system as it is.

It\'s impossible to do objectively! You can\'t operate state medical treatment in the same way as a profit-making insurance company. It\'s a recipe for disaster.

As for the smoker thing (apart from the fact that they\'re not the only group who abuse their bodies...) - they do effectively pay for a large lump of their treatment. Also consider that statistics show the majority of smokers come from lower socio-economic backgrounds. I haven\'t looked it up, but I\'d wager that obesity is a problem of the \'poor\' as well. Same with heavy drinking I\'d imagine. What you\'re suggesting is that funding of the NHS be based on extra taxation of your poorest areas of society. It will not work! Better to invest in education and trying to alter social attitudes - prevention is better than treatment! That isn\'t a quick or cheap solution either.

The French system is pretty much similar to what we have here - if you have money, you pay more for your treatment. It\'s just that the French pay theirs straight to the medical institution while ours goes to the Chancellor first!

The Hippocratic Oath exists for good reason - the good of the patient is the highest priority.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Better to invest in education and trying to alter social attitudes - prevention is better than treatment! That isn\'t a quick or cheap solution either.

You are right it isn\'t a cheap or quick solution and I\'d surmise that for the generation who are currently parents it\'d be too late to start.

The problem with making Personal Health Care the responsibility of each individual is self discipline, I would suggest that the majority of people couldn\'t or wouldn\'t be bothered to look after their own health until it became a matter of neccessity.
And yes I class myself in that category. I\'m working on losing weight, I\'ve never smoked, I\'ve given up drinking to a major extent, (I\'ve only had 2 bottles of wine since January) and I\'m feeling better.