help :(

LilBoyPip

New member
hello everyone :)

basically my problem is I can't seem to be able to paint bright colours. no matter what i do they come out dull and boring (maybe a reflection of me, who knows)

also, i cannot for the life of me paint red.. i dont know why, it just looks yuk, i have tried painting over white and grey undecoats, and even mixing in lighter colours to try brighten things up, but no =/

any help at all?

cheers :)
 

jlamarche

New member
basically my problem is I can't seem to be able to paint bright colours. no matter what i do...

Well, I'm no great shakes of a painter myself, but I think I know enough to suggest that more details would help people help you :)

Perhaps the type of primer you're using, the types of paints you use, etc?
 

Wyrmypops

New member
Pics sure would help to ascetain the specific problem. Could just be you need to use a different paint as the basecoat, red can be a bugger of a weak paint and folk enjoy success applying it over a stronger paint like a dark red or a flesh tone.
 

LilBoyPip

New member
okay well here is a few pictures of stuff i have done recently. the red marine is done over a grey basecoat (i know the others are black but i changed that)

the eldar are done over a black, but i built up the layers and highlighted it with lighter tones, yet it still looks dull and boring to me

and i use GW paints exclusively at the moment, looking to expand when i have moneyView attachment 9331View attachment 9332View attachment 9333View attachment 9334View attachment 9335View attachment 9336
 

QuietiManes

New member
Painting over white would certainly make life easier. I read somewhere that once you prime in black, it doesn't matter how many layers you build up, it'll never be as bright as it could be over a white primer. I can't see that being all that noticeable, even if it is true. Another way to look at it, maybe saving yourself 10 extra layers on the reds and yellows is more than worth it to have to do a black layer under your metallics and dark colours...or just dark-lining the crevices (if you need to).

Your paint looks a little thick, so you could also try thinning your paints a little more and doing more layers.

Other thing you might try is painting red over a pink or orange base, paint yellow over an orange or white base. Aaaaand, sometimes inks can up the vibrancy, so do an ink wash on top OR get a good white base and then do an ink wash, white highlights, another ink wash, etc. Don't think the GW washes would work for this, you'd need real inks. You can get them in other miniature paint lines (or the OLD citadel line) but the most cost effective stuff is at the art shop, in the pen section, in bottles. Although, theoretically you "could" empty out any random red/yellow pen you might have lying around and not using, but that's messy work.

Highlights and shading will also increase the "pop" factor. In many respects, yellow needs a white highlight and a brown shadow to "look" yellow...red might need an orange highlight and a purple shadow to "look" red, etc.
 

Dryad

New member
Looks like your mixing your colours with white to highlight. You reduce the colour saturation when you do this, shading by mixing in black does the same thing.

Try to highlight with brighter not only lighter colours eg magenta for your purple. There is usually several options for colour shading and highlighting you have to decide where to take them. Taking the red example you could shade with brown, purple, blue, green, darker red, or a mixture depending on what tone you want to achieve. Then you could highlight with orange, bone, yellow etc.

Learning colour theory is your friend here and then just experimenting with different colour combinations. I had the same problem (I'm still working on it) and these are just the things help helped me. Studying other people well painted models (and their wip threads if you can find them) that you think have achieved the colour vibrancy you desire is another big help. Try to figure out how you would do the same thing.

Learning how to use glazes effectively can help too because the thin layers let the colours underneath show through.
(Sorry edited 'cos I typed this as a big wall of text with no paragraphs)
 
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LilBoyPip

New member
cheers :) i try thin my paints down as much as i can, the red model was just a tester that had been painted before but i dont use it was just to see if i can paint red, after so many years of trying lol

and for brown high lights i usually mix it with bleached bone, but i might try it with a yellow see how that looks.

thank you for all the advice guys :) and once my airbrush arrives in the post i will undercoat some spare models in different colours and see how they look :)
 

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
You are painting from:
|--|-|
being shadow, midtone, highlight.

Very little in the way of highlighting is showing up and the step to shadow is very dramatic.
Fine for tabletop, not so good for photo/display work.

Think more layers, paint from:
|---|---|---|---|
dark, shadow, midtone, highlight, hotspot.
(if you are familiar with the concept of stage makeup, that helps).

****
Secondly, as mentioned, learn to use colors. Add purples or browns to darken a color. Use hotter colors to do the highlights. (i.e. oranges and yellows for red)
 

Einion

New member
Dryad said:
Looks like your mixing your colours with white to highlight. You reduce the colour saturation when you do this, shading by mixing in black does the same thing.
What if that's exactly what you want? ;)

The effect is also dependent on pigment - for some paints the chroma will go up when white is added, up to a maximum before beginning to drop as the proportion of white increases.

Einion
 

Legacy Account

Active member
This is going to sound flippant, but it's not meant to be.

Use brighter colours and more highlights. As simple as that. So for that murky brown colour you have there, start with a cadmium yellow basecoat, shade with an orange or red and highlight up to white.

Don't use black or brown to darken your colours - use a deeper shade of your base colour straight from the pot or a deep blue. Glaze with inks to intensify colours - yellows and reds benefit from this in particular.

Use a white undercoat for models you want to use really bright colours on.
 

Arma

New member
What if that's exactly what you want? ;)

The effect is also dependent on pigment - for some paints the chroma will go up when white is added, up to a maximum before beginning to drop as the proportion of white increases.

Einion

The... chroma... .. . ? it seems I have much to learn :D
 

Jbickley00

New member
chroma is basically the relative colorness of the color relative to "white." This is how bright the color looks: add white, brighten the color. Ulitmately there is a fairly subtle difference between a true white and increasing the chroma of a color to the point where it looks white. (chorma can loosely be thought of as "lightness."
saturation is the relative colorness when compared to itself: This is how intense the color is. Desaturated colors look "greyed out."
colorfulness is the relative colorfulness when compared to grey. This is a description of value How light or dark the color is relative to a greyscale. Mid blue is the same value as mid grey, dark blue is the same value as dark grey.
Hue is the color that appears (blue, yellow, red ect.)
The interplay between these concepts is what produces the color that we see.
What Enion said is that in certain pigments, adding white will make the color look brighter, before it shifts. Think about red..there is a point at which adding white to red brightens the red. Go past that point and ou get pink, all the way to white. Highlighting red with white works because adding white also changes the value...a highter value (closer to white) makes higlights. It also takes the colorfulness out because pink and white look less red than red does.

Shading is mostly a matter of value. ou want to add value so you darken the color. Adding black is a very straightforward way of darkening the color...and it worlds in kind of the same way as white..you are still taking the chroma out of the color, just doing it with a darker value. (I think this is right-but I am fuzzier here). Again, as you add black to the red you decrease its chroma. until you get something that is a lot like black.
Desaturation can grey the color, but theoretically it should grey the color at the same value. In other words a mid blue desaturates to a mid grey. The color will get greyer but not darker or lighter (you can desaturate witha darker tone to get shadows..but at that point you are playing with both value and saturation. this is something like putting a black was over red to get shading.

Ok, they other way we can play with value is by adjusting hue. I like this method, but it is less realistic, and some painters don't like it for that reason. Highlighting by hue adjustment means that you change the basic color to a hue that is a lower or higher value. If you shade red by adding dark blue to it...you are shifting the hue to purple to create shadows (this is very commonly done with white-when its shaded light blue) or when you highlight red with orange and yellow. This is not a "natural" highlight, but looks really good-i think. In this case you are not adjusting the saturation of the color, or its chroma (well you can do this actually-but for this example I'm leaving it alone) but you are changing value. Purple is darker than red, orange is lighter than red, or so they appear-in fact they might all be the same chroma and saturation, its the appearance of value that is manipulated. Basically you are fooling the eye, in fact almost all painting is fooling the eye.

I had sort of intended this to be a simple translation of what enion said...and it ended up..well you know.
I'm not saying knowing this will make you paint as well as enion..i sure dont. But at least you can talk in very fancy terms about why you can't paint to enion.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
There is of course a kind of Colour Psychology in how we react to colours.
Red is a strong response colour and equates to anger and violence in the western world.
Blue = Calmness.
Brown is a neutral colour, an earth tone or a background colour. It can also be associated with Decay and Spoilage (Pooh is brown remember).

Having so much of it used on the Eldar isn't giving your figures a strength against the Purple.
If you wanted to use Brown as your main Armour colour, balance the visual aspect with greens (for things like the cloak) and small amounts of yellow.
 

Einion

New member
jlamarche said:
Your knowledge of paint is astounding. :)
Gracias. It's like anything though, all it needs is a long time on the one subject and a decent memory.


Arma said:
The... chroma... .. . ? it seems I have much to learn :D
Yes grasshopper. Chroma is one of the colour dimensions and simply refers to the purity or colourfulness of a colour: high chroma = vivid or intense, low chroma = dull, closer to grey (neutral grey having a chroma of 0). The other two dimensions are hue and value.

Hopefully this will get the concept across visually:

Munsell_Colour_Dimensions.png


The shape here is the Munsell colour solid, I'll explain why it's not spherical at some future point for anybody interested. Although it does tend to be the sort of thing that makes people's eyes glaze over.

Einion
 

QuietiManes

New member
Red is a strong response colour and equates to anger and violence in the western world.

Apparently, red also helps with focus and concentration. I guess you'd need to do as much in violent situations...so it makes sense. Its on my list of things to look into so I'm not too sure about it yet. While looking through some jewelry making tools online, one company had their tools painted red and explained why in the description.

Sorry for the sidetrack, it's just kind of interesting (mildly related).
 
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