Homeschooling - Good or Bad?

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
......don\'t blame teachers for the politicisation of education. It\'s politicians that use it as a football to kick around to win votes. Teaching unions in the UK have become far more militant over the years because of this as much as anything else. Teachers can barely keep up with some of the cretinous, half-arsed schemes that spoon-fed, foppish twats of politicians force upon them term after term.
I\'m with Scott on this. Political scoreboarding has been the major cause of educational failure in the UK.

You can add to that the factors that politicians want statistics to show that their \"policies\" are working and because of that there are schools being \'managed\' to show those statistics.


Personally I believe that education isn\'t just about how a pupil is taught at school but equally about how much \"parental/family education\" there is. I benefitted from an Uncle who helped me to get a \"grip\" on reading and parents and Grandparents who explained about and involved me in what they were doing.
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
Originally posted by Evil Dave

How dare you insinuate that the problem may be mine and that golden child that came from my loins. He\'s gifted, I tell you, special. You are obviously a poor teacher. lol

yeah, there\'s a lot of that! lol

Originally posted by Spacemunkie

And don\'t blame teachers for the politicisation of education. It\'s politicians that use it as a football to kick around to win votes. Teaching unions in the UK have become far more militant over the years because of this as much as anything else. Teachers can barely keep up with some of the cretinous, half-arsed schemes that spoon-fed, foppish twats of politicians force upon them term after term.

Teachers have little control over what they teach or how they teach it these days. Their pedagogical methods are as prescribed as the lessons they\'re forced to teach. Bunch of arse if you ask me.
i agree, our teacher used to explain to us the problems they were having re:the syllabus etc and it sounds very frustrating. similar to the politics in the health service.

luckily, being a private school, a lot of ideas were ignored and we were taught (on the whole) very well. stupidly dangerous experiments involving mains power supply in physics. trying to make a one man hover craft using a motorway extraction fan. the teachers were all pretty good and commanded respect. as scott mentions there are always disruptive little bastards in every class but the teachers did well to deal with it - the odd bit of corporal punishment (highly illegal but no-one would report it as it was done appropriately) and exclusion techniques were effective enough
 

Infidel Castro

New member
The biggest problem with home-schooling is that parents can force beliefs and ideals on a child in a way that a state school wouldn\'t. Anyone agree?

Is it any wonder that a lot of pro home-schooling folk are Fundie Christians? I\'ve had many a debate with them :D
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by reverend
The biggest problem with home-schooling is that parents can force beliefs and ideals on a child in a way that a state school wouldn\'t. Anyone agree?

Is it any wonder that a lot of pro home-schooling folk are Fundie Christians? I\'ve had many a debate with them :D

Or vise versa.
 

Modderrhu

New member
Originally posted by reverend
The biggest problem with home-schooling is that parents can force beliefs and ideals on a child in a way that a state school wouldn\'t. Anyone agree?
I think that those parents would hardly describe it as forcing their belief systems and values onto their children. Far more likely, they believe they are guiding their children in the ways that are right and proper.

Be they atheist, Christian, secular or whatever, is there any parent who\'d not want their children to adopt their beliefs? Schooling is an avenue for passing these beliefs, as well as knowledge, on to the next generation.
 

Infidel Castro

New member
I think kids should be safe from religion till they\'re old enough to think for themselves deeply about such matters. State schooling eems to give a more balanced approach by trying to avoid it altogether. Does the job for me.
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by reverend
I think kids should be safe from religion till they\'re old enough to think for themselves deeply about such matters. State schooling eems to give a more balanced approach by trying to avoid it altogether. Does the job for me.

See, I have problems with a few of the ways the schools are trying to mold our kids.

One example is the Zero Tolerance Policy on fighting.
Back in my day, it was recognized that you have a basic right to defend yourself, and the defender rarely, if ever, got suspended.
Now, both antagonist and defender get suspended, teaching the children that fighting under any circumstances is bad, yet the teachers often ignore the bullying that goes on.
I personally will teach my child to fight when necessary and damn the rules.
I will not have my child grow up to be a victim. We have too many here with the victim mentality.

Another problem I have is not with the school itself but the kids themselves, or rather their lack of common courtesy, morality, etc,etc. due to their parents lack of responsibility and interest. These peers play a huge part in your child\'s development.

The ideal for me would be to take my child during the elementary years, and raise him how I was raised, fishing, hunting, living off the land, with no television, only books.
Ideally, I would like to instill survival skills, a sense of responsibility for his actions, rather than the society of victims we have today, and most importantly, to think for himself and question everything, to stand on his own and not need the state to make his way.
 

Infidel Castro

New member
Some fair points there. Self-accountability is the biggest thing for me. I just want to see people accepting blame when it needs to be accepted. Politicians are the worst for admitting to anything at all. It filters down through society to my mind.
 

treide

New member
Originally posted by Modderrhu
Be they atheist, Christian, secular or whatever, is there any parent who\'d not want their children to adopt their beliefs? Schooling is an avenue for passing these beliefs, as well as knowledge, on to the next generation.

Actually, this is one of the main reasons I would want my kid in a conventional school setting. I think home schooled kids are at a much higher risk of indoctrination into whatever belief system the parents have. Although that might be good if the parents are intelligent, well-rounded individuals, I think we all recognize that is probably a minority of cases.

Another question I have is how far can home schooling be taken? Is it feasible to home school kids all the way through high school? I can\'t imagine any parent who would be able to tackle chemistry, physics, calculus, government, literature, foreign language, etc. as well as a trained teacher. Are purely home schooled kids at a disadvantage when applying to college/university?
 

fieldarchy

New member
Originally posted by JesterzUSMC


It\'s been a good trip, but unless something VIOLENT and CATASTROPHIC happens to DECIMATE the overpopulation of idiots in the world, the intelligent people can only sit back and try to survive the RIOTOUS CHAOS that is surely around the corner.

Just give me a gun, I\'ll take care of that for you :D
 

Modderrhu

New member
Originally posted by treide
Originally posted by Modderrhu
Be they atheist, Christian, secular or whatever, is there any parent who\'d not want their children to adopt their beliefs? Schooling is an avenue for passing these beliefs, as well as knowledge, on to the next generation.
Actually, this is one of the main reasons I would want my kid in a conventional school setting. I think home schooled kids are at a much higher risk of indoctrination into whatever belief system the parents have. Although that might be good if the parents are intelligent, well-rounded individuals, I think we all recognize that is probably a minority of cases.
Suppose it depends on your definition of \"well-rounded\". Fundamentalists would not consider a secular setting to be \"well-rounded\". But you got the point exactly: you would put your kids into conventional schooling, because; you want them to have the a-religious, secular setting. In a way, you\'d be helping to imprint those values on your kids, simply by allowing society to do it for you.

Originally posted by reverend
I think kids should be safe from religion till they\'re old enough to think for themselves deeply about such matters. State schooling eems to give a more balanced approach by trying to avoid it altogether. Does the job for me.
I somehow wanted to disagree with you, in that young minds might need more guidance and discipline than a system of no-values might encourage. But saying that, I remember how I either ignored or rebelled against the sports oriented schools I attended.

Then again, I\'m just otherwise. :)
 

fortunesfool

New member
In my book, home schooling = good. Even if it is a touchy subject.

-The schools over here are horrid.
-The children are little demons.
-We\'ve tried time and time again. We\'re part of the PTA.
-We just got out of another meeting with a head teacher and our daughter\'s teacher in which we expressed our concerns with the level of teaching. The only response we got was 15 minutes of the Head Teacher talking AT us, telling us more or less how wonderful the school is (see the political schpiel). Talk about banging our heads against a wall.
-What\'s even more sad is that this is the second best school in the entire county.

Now that I\'ve extolled the vices of public schooling, home schooling is fraught with perils but with so very much more to be gained. My wife works in education (as a Professor at the local uni) and has many contacts in local education. Those who\'ve actually come into contact with home schooled children unanimously accept that the children are 2-3 years ahead of students their same age in actual learning. This is of course only if the parents are organized and pragmatic about doing the home schooling. This learning is also done in under half the actual time as it\'s not institutionalized.

This not only allows the child to learn how they like to learn but gives them control (i.e. teaching responsibility) of their learning, a host of new activities and experiences, and loads more time to go out and socialize/learn new hobbies.


I would also say that any parent is capable of doing it. As long as they\'re willing to put the time and effort into it. For those parents who took lots of learning at a high school and collegiate level, the requisite knowledge is easily there to teach them. For those who didn\'t, it is a tailor made situation to increase their own learning.

Me and my wife will have an easier go of it because she is well grounded with her education and her arts background. I personally can cover most of the sciences and maths by stint of all the education I had to make me a doctor. But even if you don\'t have these advantages, it comes down to two points.

1. Schools are failing, children are getting worse and worse behaved, and government keeps setting educations standards to match this downward trend rather than giving them a swift kick up the backside and telling the people that they\'re not doing good enough.

2. Do you want to let your children join everyone else as they all get figuratively flushed down the toilet bowl just because society wants you to be a lemming?


I may seem fairly set in my ways. Perhaps it\'s because I\'m an elitist. Or perhaps it\'s because I can\'t understand mediocrity (outside of my painting skills).
 

Bill

New member
I know a guy who was home-schooled until secondary school, and he is a little... odd. I ain\'t very good socially myself, but I\'m 14 so I think that\'s understandable lol

A lot of people are going on about how schools are failing. Now I don\'t know anything about the situation in the US or other countries, but regardless of how poor the school is your kid can succeed if you instill them with that desire. I go to a fairly rough school where some of the teaching isn\'t great (although to be fair it\'s actually pretty good on the whole), plenty of \'demonic\' kids around me who don\'t want to work. That doesn\'t mean I can\'t get along with succeeding myself, even where the teaching isn\'t helping much. My parents have never pressured me in the slightest, but they\'ve always shown to me that achieving well is a good thing, and I\'ve come to see it myself. There is a lot of negative culture about high-achievers at any school, basically because deep down the people who don\'t want to work see them as a threat. I think that if you bring your kids up right yourself, they can learn to work really well in a school environment and will learn much more important social and other skills from that experience, even if they don\'t achieve the best grades.

[size=-2]On a scale of 1 to 10, how up myself did that sound?[/size] :D
 

Legacy Account

Active member
Originally posted by fortunesfool

1. Schools are failing, children are getting worse and worse behaved, and government keeps setting educations standards to match this downward trend rather than giving them a swift kick up the backside and telling the people that they\'re not doing good enough.

2. Do you want to let your children join everyone else as they all get figuratively flushed down the toilet bowl just because society wants you to be a lemming?

...perhaps it\'s because I can\'t understand mediocrity (outside of my painting skills).

In answer to point one, I\'d suggest that it\'s more a case of SOCIETY failing. Why are children becoming increasingly badly behaved? They aren\'t born \'naughty\'. Sure one or two may be born with problems, but most aint. What\'s happening to them? And why are we as adults sitting back and letting it happen?

As for point two and some of your other comments, many (read most I reckon) parents would not or simply could not resort to home schooling. It\'d either be beyond them academically or, as I suspect would be most likely, it\'d be beyond them financially. What you end up with yet again is educated high-earners removing the kids most likely to provide positive influences from their school communities. The result is that schools get worse. A similar thing happens over here with the postcode lottery system we run. You end up with all the kids from well off families in good schools, and the poor in inner city sump schools.

I don\'t have any answers, but removing kids from their school communities doesn\'t seem to be the solution to me. It\'s simply replicating the more solitary, isolated lives that are becoming commonplace in adulthood these days. Perhaps the parents should be going into schools and delivering lessons to their kid\'s and their kids\' friends - playing a more proactive role within the schools themselves?

Dunno. All I do know is that I used to love teaching, but was put off by all the bullshit that went with it.
 

fortunesfool

New member
I would entirely agree that SOCIETY is failing. I didn\'t say it first, cause I didn\'t want to be viewed as Mr. Doom and Gloom. The only way I can imagine things getting better, is if people adopt a policy of taking responsibility for their actions. Otherwise, external forces will force them to adopt that policy.

As for removing the educated influential students, I would have to disagree and say this is a boon.
a. it lessons the teacher to student ratio
b. the current viewpoint (atleast up here in Dundee) is not to push the educated students harder, but to bring the students to a rough minimum standards together. Not only does this make it difficult for my daughter to excel but also means that she would have to lift her entire class along with her to excel.

When my daughter entered school, she was a capable reader. To keep her on par with the other students, they sent her home with books that had no words in them. Where she used to read David Eddings with me, now I have to read it to her. All because there has to be parity.

Sure the play games with her and she has fun, but she is officially bored of learning. I get upset about this because, I had the selfsame boredom when I went to school and know what it stands for. It was this boredom that almost crippled my educational career.

As much as I\'d like for my children to be good examples and to lift the level of learning for others, I\'d rather that they learn and do what they want to. That they come out of school feeling good about themselves and having learned as much as they wanted.

We\'ve worked with the schools til we\'ve given ourselves a headache. We\'ve investigated all of the private schools within a reasonable distance. If any of these were capable of educating my children well, then I would gladly let them (as long as they avoided \'parenting\' my children).

This leaves me with one other choice. Home schooling. People make fun of it and view most as social misfits. While there are a few (as there are in any group), most that I\'ve encountered have been kind and normal parents who wanted the best for their children. Likewise the children were bright, fun-loving, and attentive.

Oddly enough, most of them are middle class people (see lack of money and even in some cases lack of degrees) who dialled back work so they could spend time with their kids. They went back and re/learned Algebra/History/English Lit so that they could teach. They created big social circles so that their kids would have people to play with.

Are any of these things easy? No... But definitely worth it and within the reach of even the most financially humble of families.

The first step to mediocrity is refusing to challenge oneself.
 

philologus

Subgenius
My own experience:
I was educated in public schools for most of my school life. My parents sent me to private school for a short time until they could no longer afford it. My 3 children range in age from 5-14 (Kindergarten up) They are currently in public schools because I could no longer afford to send them to private school. They (the 2 oldest) were home-schooled for 2 years by my wife, using curriculum designed for home schooling. My wife partnered with a lot of other home schooling parents to arrange field trips sporting events etc. My kids have always been involved with scouting at church and with other activities. All 3 are very sociable kids. I can say that home schooling for them was good, because I didn\'t have to decipher what asinine teaching methods were being used by this or that educator. Assisting them with school work is much easier when you don\'t have to re-learn all the newest teaching methods every time they advance a grade. Field trips could be taken whenever we pleased and I could schedule vacation time to participate.

My problems with public schools are numerous. The first day of Kindergarten for my oldest was an adventure. He was attending the best (by the state\'s Department of Education standards) school in the area. They lost him!! Literally! On his first day of school. Then they blamed him, a five year-old! This was one of the many reasons I started sending them to private school. My 9 year-old\'s teacher (Masters Degree in Education) sent home her \"philosophy for education\" the first week of school. The entire document was laced with spelling and grammar errors. And, one of her methods was that it wasn’t beneficial to give children spelling tests! When I was in college I could usually pick out the education majors. EvilDave is right when he says it\'s the easiest course load in college (In the US). I can\'t tell you how many times my classmates told me they weren\'t \"good in math\" so they chose education as a major or dropped out of other programs.

The main problem with public schooling (In the US), in every state I\'ve lived in, is that it\'s run by the govt. I\'m very uncomfortable with the govt. of any country deciding how a whole nation should be taught to think. We have plenty of historical examples of how this can go wrong. In addition govt. education is inefficient: It cost me just under $3000 per kid per year to send my kids to private school, where the teachers had to perform or get fired. No politics involved in what performance measures were used. The average cost for one student K-12 in the US is a little more than $11,000. And, the private school had larger class sizes than the public school. It has been pointed out in this thread that children will have to learn to fend for themselves in “the real world”. I agree, another reason why performance based private education is the best route to go. I want the govt. to give us back our tax dollars and let us decide which school to send our kids. As far as home schooling goes, I would much rather have a lot of young adults believing a lot of different things (however kooky) as a result of their education (i.e. home schooling), than one unified message from the govt.
 
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