Hoping for some Feedback

[pez5767]

Hey Gang,
This is my Skarrd Buzzblade. I know he\'s nothing special, but I\'m looking for some critiques and feedback to help me get better.
As it says on the link, he is my first attempt at creating my own base. My fist attempt at lizcam\'s bruise technique, and my first rust effect. I\'m curious how I did. So, if you see something specific I can improve on or an area that needs work... let me know.

Votey Linky: http://www.coolminiornot.com/195130

Thanks a zillion!

 

[generulpoleaxe]

looks good mate, the contrast needs pushing further tho.
both the highlights and the shadows needs to be brought out to give extra depth to it.

take a look at the top last seven days minis and you will see good examples of what i mean about the extra contrast those model have compared to yours.

 

[pez5767]

Are we talking contrast of color or contrast of light vs. dark?
???

 

[pez5767]

Okay, I think that makes sense.
So for the most part we are talking about a greater depth of shadow and light on this guy... skin in particular.
However, this contrast should be created through the use of contrasting colors.
So if I\'m understanding correctly, then the skin (painted primarily with Rotting flesh (greenish/yellow hue)) should be shadded with reddish/purple hues in the shadow to highten contrast.
Is that right?
Otherwise, this guy doesn\'t have a lot of color going on to play with. Other than the arm band, which should be shaded with some purple tints?
???
Am I getting this or just totally making a mess of things?

 

[generulpoleaxe]

bingo!

use a colour wheel to help find the contrasting colours for your shadows.

easiest thing to do is do what you are doing at the moment and then tweek the shadows.
have another look at it and then tweek the highlights that will give the extra contrast needed.

remember, you don\'t need super contrast all over, sometimes it is better to have the most contrast on an area where you want to draw attention to (faces etc)

 

[lizcam]

I have the same issues with contrast but what they said is very good advice. The briuses came out pretty good. Did you find it eas enough?

 

[pez5767]

@lizcam:
Yeah your article on how to paint buises is top notch. IN fact you should write an article on the \'right way\' to write and article. It was totally easy and showed me how to play with the effect to achieve different looks (age of bruise), thanks so much!

@Fieldarchy:
Thanks for the fine arts 101. I actually started as a art major my first year of college... so basic color theory I understand. How basic color theory applies to the world of mini painting... I don\'t have. Thanks again for all of your input. The book helps... really it does. So you are adding contrasting colors to the original color in order to create the darker tone.
I see. I really appreciate it!
Thanks gang!

 

[jahminis]

meg and the generul have both given ya good advice, but it isn\'t the only approach..it\'s only one aspect of how minis can be painted...
in my opinion, some of the fantasical elements of the world that the minis are set in is lost in the fine art approach to paintin\' minis...i can appreciate a frazzetta paintin\' of conan, or a boris paintin\' of a warmaiden, but i get a much more visceral reation to those same subject drawn by a great comicbook artist...something about the way that line works in traditional tattooin\', comics, and grafitti, is a lot cooler to me than a nice elmore piece...

so just to play devil\'s advocate, and show a bit of the art from the other side of the tracks, here\'s what i would do if i was handed this mini, and asked to take it to the next level...

first off, i paint the complete opposite from meg and the general\'s advice...when i want a shadow, i use a darker tone of the same colour, or even mix in a bit of black...i highlight with a lighter tone of my colour, or mix in some white, or bone colour to lighten...

the base looks fine, though it could use a thin wash of really dark brown in the cracks to add some more depth...

the skin looks good, but the bruises could use to be deepened a little...

i like the result in the black boot, and the cavalry stripe looks cool...

the maul handle looks good, maybe one more highlight wouldn\'t hurt...

the scar and the spots where he has metal stuck in his skin could use a little deep red to make the spots look more livid, but be a seperate tone from the purple bruisin\'...

your dark linin\' looks good on most of the model, but the bottom of the armwrap, and the top of the piece on his elbow could use another line of dark brown to really seperate them from the body...

the top row of teeth could benefit from some freehand linin\' to make some individual teeth, unless you\'re after the look like he\'s wearin\' a mouthguard...

the last bit is the metals... they look good, but the rust effect really only shows up on the back of his helmet and the body of the shield...the rest of the mettalics could use another wash with some vallejo smoke, and then i even mix some smoke in with my metals, until i\'m ready for the last highlight of clean metal to make the rust stand out more...

i don\'t know a damn thing about colour theory, and i\'ve never owned a colour wheel, but i know i like to keep it simple...
your eye will tell ya what looks good, and if things are goin\' wrong, no amount of theory will save the day...just hard work and practice, and the quest to find that style that ya like to paint with...

cheers
jah

 

[pez5767]

@Jah:
Thanks for the feedback. I\'d love to see some pictures of your work in order to get an idea of what your describing. I went back and picked out the area on the arm band. The areas you described were the only areas i put the rust effect on the model... so I guess it\'s good that those were the only areas you noticed. The teeth on this guy are molded without definition, so I left them that way... It seems less human to me. I\'m still working on the contrast element and I think that\'s what fieldarchy and genural are getting at. Darker shadows and Higher highlights... regardless of how I get there. In the end my models are going to be my own... like little finger prints. So all the information is good information. Thanks for the input. I\'d really appreciate it if you could shoot me a link so I can check out some of your work.+
thanks

 

[Manus]

like it, all though those above are/could be right I think you could make it a lot better just by changing the base to a darker color - that would make him stand more out.
I think you have made some good rust, in some areas it could use a bit more, but I guess you tried to achive different variations of rust as you say this was a \"test piece\".

 

[jahminis]

my advice was more of a comment on general paintin\' philosophy differences than any real need to work on this mini more...for playin\', this mini is just fine...

for some pics of my style, and how it has developed over the last few years, check out my photobucket gallery...
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/jah-minis/

page 2 of the privateer gallery has a good selection of the work that i did for them, and there are some other studio pics in the croc and aberrant galleries...my demon winner is in the inquisitor gallery, and for some odd reason, the warhammer gallery has part of my 40k minis in a sub-gallery...strange...


cheers
jah

 

[jahminis]

like i said in my first post meg, your tips, and the generul\'s, are good stuff...
how is sayin\' that there are many ways to approach mini paintin\' takin\' your advice out of context??? i didn\'t claim that you\'re tryin\' to change anybody\'s paintin\' style, just that there are different routes to an end result...

i\'m not slammin\' ya here, and i did say i\'m playin\' devil\'s advocate in my post....

i do think that there are two very distinct approaches visible amoung top painters these days...one i would label \"the french style\", and one i would call\"\'eavy metal style\"...

the french style is the school that you\'re workin\' from, where ya mix different colours into the flesh for instance, or shade a red cloak with green tones...this is the style that has it\'s roots in fine art...
i call it the school of jeremie...subtle and beautiful...
it\'s a way of paintin\' that i love to see, but have zero interest in applyin\'...

the \'eavy metal paintin\' school is more about solid blocks of colour, a bold graphic arts approach...it\'s also a style that is meant to be recreated by the average punter in the shop...step A + step B + step C=result...
this may seem simple to some, but when ya look at the results of what the studio cats produce on their outside work, the minis are stunnin\'...

the basic point is this...some people choose to make all kinds of custom mixes, and subtle blends, and others just line up the various tones of their colours and go to town...no one style is right or wrong...
that\'s what kills me when people talk as if their style is the only right way to go...

in contrast to my approach, your style is more \"french\", and mine is more \"\'eavy metal\"...here\'s an example of what i mean:

personally, i don\'t find your minis cartoony, i think they are more realistic when compared to a paint style like this:

now that\'s what i call comicbook style...

i know your serious about what ya do, just as i am(hell, this is how i live)...please don\'t take anything i\'ve said here as an attack...this is a nice healthy debate...

cheers
jah

 

[generulpoleaxe]

i get what you mean mate (as it\'s very similar to one of the conversations we have had lol)

the eavy metal style still has a place in my heart and some of it\'s tricks are damn good for getting bits done on minis quicker when i work on units, whilst the \"French\" (which has been in use on historicals for a long time!) style has as Jah has said, a more natural look (hyper realism) to it.

at the end of the day it\'s what the painter prefers, and both look good to me (i do prefer the hyper realism tho )

 

[pez5767]

Wow... remember back when I wanted feedback on a mini? lol

\"That really escalated quickly.\" --Anchor Man

Anyway, to one and all thanks again for your input. I appreciate it.

To be honest, style is something I\'ve always struggled with, in fact it\'s why i gave up on my art major. (that and the money ) I couldn\'t ever put my finger on \'my own style\' and I felt like if I didn\'t have something original to contribute to art then why bother. So here I stand on this old style debate hill again. The difference?
1st off, I\'m older and I don\'t have any delusions about doing this for a living... I mean it would be nice, but lets face it you can\'t polish a turd. I\'m pretty excited about the jump in quality my minis have made in the past 6 months but I\'m always going to be behind what some of my betters (the posters in this thread) are doing... AND, that\'s okay. I\'m willing to put in the work and see where I can get.
2nd I know my style is actually going to end up somewhere between \'Eavy Metal and the Euro style. Here\'s why. I grew up a comic book guy. Jah, when you mentioned the power of bold images and line work, I had art in my head. Frank Miller is so minimal artistically but he says SO MUCH with so little. I love classic comics. Love them. It\'s all bold images and clean lines. I works for me on some level.
3rd I came up in the GW system. Self-taught for about 15 years... litterally on my own for all but the last two years (thanks chasepalaver). So, I really understand what GW and that system can do. I appreciate it for a lot of things, however, I realize aesthetically it\'s not my thing.... why?
4th I tend toward a more natural palette of colors. I\'m drawn to the realism of art. I like the contrast between the fantastic and the real. It\'s honestly what I like so much about GW fantasy. It feels \'real\' in as much as such a thing can. There is an honesty to their fantasy worlds story. I want that same honesty in my mini\'s.
5th I don\'t know as much about the Euro style as I do the \'Eavy Metal style. So, I want to learn to work my neutral/natural tones with those tools a bit more.

Ultimately, I know I want a more natural palette of colors. So how do I make those \'POP\' without going toward the bold comic graphic look and (in my opinion only) sacrafice some of that realism?

I don\'t know.

I\'m going to figure it out. When I do, that will be my style.
Simple.
20-30 years from now I\'ll let you know how this works out for me.

Thanks again for ALL the input.
2 cents delivered for those who care. (sorry about the book.)

 

[jahminis]

i\'ve hijacked your thread pez, but hopefully this is a good read...

i didn\'t know that you\'d been lookin\' for advice from meg and aaron...things are startin\' to make sense around here...

@meg: when i say paintin\' style, i\'m also talkin\' about use and application of colour, as that\'s the road to the end result...
i\'m sure you\'d look at the pics of my minis i posted, and say that i used colour theory in there somewhere, but i\'ll be damned if i could list primary, secondary, and complimentary colours from memory...

my point is that it\'s a personal thing about wether or not the fine art approach puts a mini over the edge, or wether the french style is better than the \'eavy metal style...
one is not better or more attractive to everyone...horses for courses, as they say...

i don\'t consider myself to be at a \"moderate\" level of paintin\'...people wouldn\'t pay my rates if i waslol...though i think that it\'s craftsmanship that make my minis look good, not artistic virtuosity...

9/10ths of my paint is applied straight out of the pot, and only different shades of the same coulor are applied to each area...so i\'m just sayin\' that it\'s possible to get good results without shadin\' red with green, or mixin\' some blue into the skin...
one can set out a pot of chaos black, scab red, red gore, and blood red, apply the paint smoothly, and end up with a nice lookin\' red cloak...like this guy:

this guy was painted with colours 100% straight out the pots...shaded and highlighted with different tones of the same colour...
bad photography aside, is he a poorly painted mini??? no...is he a work of art??? no...it\'s just paint by numbers really...

cheers
jah

 

[pez5767]

Jah: You did hijack my thread... but this is WAY more interesting.
I get what you\'re saying, but there is a certain amount of what we do that is not just craft, it\'s art. This guy has a very nice looking cloak. Yes you did use color theory wether you meant to or not.

However, I\'m going for more than a serviceable paint job. I\'m looking to work toward art. I guess some part of me would like to think about one-day getting one of those little demons everyone is so worked up about.... myself included.

Okay, to stoke the fire and continue the debate, cause I enjoy it.

What\'s your take on her?

 

[Manus]

I think a bit more of shading on the shirt and trousers would take her a long way. Otherwise I think it\'s a fine mini.