How should GW survive the credit crunch...

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well I\'ve just had to repair the Dragon (Ral Partha Red Dragon) I did for my mother in law 15 years ago. Broken wing mounts. broken head point. UHU glue repair overflow, Chipped paint.
I reckon it\'s had a few \"Flying lessons\" over the years, but I think it\'s time it learned how to land.
 

BPI

New member
The Red, Is that one of the Dragonlance ones with a rider? I was a fan of the books as a kid & have a nice Dragonlance Artwork book at home somewhere (Caldwell, Easley, Elmore if I remember rightly). I think they pretty much typify Dragons for me. The current GW one is a bit too close to the weedy snake like thing shown in St. George paintings. Google image search brings up loads of examples (\"st. george dragon\") but I can\'t see the one that I remember from my Primary School\'s stairwell wall.

Sounds like a big repair job. I take it the Uhu was applied by an enthusiastic amateur after accidental breakage? That\'ll be fun to remove without losing paint. Well done for being prepared to revisit a model, even if it is after 15 years, I\'m not sure I\'d be able to bring myself to look at the poor old thing ;)

Broader question, when I used to work tangentially to action figure collecting I became aware of the little plastic display boxes available. That\'s why any decent action figure has a hole in one foot, to fit over the peg on the base of the display box so that it\'ll stand without glue. Does anyone here use them for protecting competition minis or dragons?

http://www.collectingwarehouse.com/Product-Home-Page/Doll-Display-Cases-Stands;jsessionid=0a0106431f43a2f97938df35456b8ae6f48efae9693f.e3eSc3eMbxuPe34Pa38Ta38Rb3r0

http://www.collectingwarehouse.com/Product-Home-Page/Acrylic-Box-Display-Cases

B.
 

freakinacage

Well-known member
Originally posted by Dragonsreach

DSC_0398.jpg

what? where? how much?
 

Talonicus

New member
Looks like the unreleased GW monstrosity.

Blughhhhh!!!

Andy\'s if it is ever ever finished will be the new dragon benchmark.
 

BPI

New member
For those of you who have experience of these things, if that GW dragon sculpt that Dragonsreach posted were put into production at that scale what would be the approximate retail cost in metal/plastic/resin?

If I understand correctly plastic has the most expensive set-up costs? Whereas resin is used for very low production run models?

Is it cost effective (ignoring ludicrous retail price) to produce moulds for pour-on-demand resin if, for example, you only predicted 5 orders a year?

Cheers all, B.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by BPI
For those of you who have experience of these things, if that GW dragon sculpt that Dragonsreach posted were put into production at that scale what would be the approximate retail cost in metal/plastic/resin?
A Sharp intake of breath!.
In plastic I\'d expect that to be £60 Minimum and more like £70-80.
And yes I\'d probably pay that, sad git that I am.
Metal might be cost prohibitive as 20 years ago the Chicken Dragon (et Al) were retailing at £50 which I could see putting the metal into the £150- £200 range. (Think of the postage costs for mail order (ouch), that would definitley have to go to my local store).
I\'d expect a resin version to run around the same cost as the Forgeworld Dragon (£132) but probably closer to £200.


If I understand correctly plastic has the most expensive set-up costs? Whereas resin is used for very low production run models?

Is it cost effective (ignoring ludicrous retail price) to produce moulds for pour-on-demand resin if, for example, you only predicted 5 orders a year?
That\'s a very good question. However for only 5 models a year I\'d expect that there would have to be a serious commercial gain per transaction to cover the \"dead space\" of storing unused moulds. Plus I\'m not sure how long a shelf life a mould actually has.
Consider how Rackham used to get taken to task about over using their moulds for thie Pewter figures.


Cheers all, B.
 

BPI

New member
Cheers DragonsReach, that\'s interesting. My initial reaction to your guestimates is also a sharp intake of breath! Not that I don\'t think it\'d be worth it, just that my budget would be stretched! I guess the cost of raw metal makes it just too prohibitive nowadays. That Forgeworld dragon is huge so I guess up to £200 isn\'t as much as it sounds...

I have a comparison rule for whenever things seem too expensive to me, B\'s Cinema Rule (I may have stolen this from someone but can\'t remember). The cost of going to the flicks is roughly £10 (ticket plus snack) for which I get a maximum of 2 hours entertainment (I\'m twitching to get out of the air-conditioned hellhole by that point, so long films are DVD for me). A comic costs roughly £2 for 15 mins so is similar value. A £10 blister of 3 metal minis holds the promise of over 20 hours painting plus all the future use in games, pretty good value! Theory\'s a bit rough around the edges but has helped me get a better perspective when I initially balk at the cost figure before assessing whether I think the product is actually worth it. (I haven\'t done the sums but my feeling is that in the UK houses are priced 2-3x their worth, I wonder what the Cinema Rule suggests?).

Going back to my posited idea of a plastic dragon, I wonder if a smaller (beginners) sculpt available at the £35 would be profitable as a leader for the bigger resin models? It\'s still Christmas present money rather than casual purchase though isn\'t it?

A small thought for those of you who sell painted minis. The Dragon market ties into lots of customers outside of the gaming market. Just think of those rather nasty sculpts you see in pewter in gift/china shops with the tacky plastic gem glued in. The same goes for the cat market. I once painted up a GW Stone Circle (a little henge in Epic scale? for Mighty Empires?) for a friend & popped it into a presentation box with a little new-agey quote on the box. When you Ebay stuff I\'m guessing it\'s in the games section. Has anyone tried presenting their work for the collectable (eg. china) market with text that reads more like a Franklin Mint advert? Appealing more to new-age/hippy markets, etc. Just a thought :)

Back to that rather nice GW Dragon sculpt, if GW were to decide to produce a resin model for each of their stores, to be painted nicely for long-term display, they\'d have the marketing effect of a nice model in the window & the dragon fans could then order copies until the moulds disintegrate. It may not be profitable in the short term but the additional foot fall might make up for it? Alternatively, & to save on mould storage space/having to create a couple a month, produce the things in a batch until the moulds give up & then sell as a limited edition of only x pieces. Easier perhaps.

B.
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Originally posted by BPI
A small thought for those of you who sell painted minis. The Dragon market ties into lots of customers outside of the gaming market. Just think of those rather nasty sculpts you see in pewter in gift/china shops with the tacky plastic gem glued in. The same goes for the cat market. I once painted up a GW Stone Circle (a little henge in Epic scale? for Mighty Empires?) for a friend & popped it into a presentation box with a little new-agey quote on the box. When you Ebay stuff I\'m guessing it\'s in the games section. Has anyone tried presenting their work for the collectable (eg. china) market with text that reads more like a Franklin Mint advert? Appealing more to new-age/hippy markets, etc. Just a thought :)

B.
I have a smallish dragon mini that came on the cover of one of those \"collect the whole set\" magazines (you know, you see them advertised on TV, then they disappear within a couple of months because no one can afford to buy them after the initial introductory offer runs out). It\'s unpainted apart from a bit of red paint for the eyes and what appears to be a coat of varnish, and he\'s actually not too bad a sculpt. Wish I could remember what I paid for him, but it wasn\'t a lot - it was the introductory mag so the price was lower. I\'ll paint him up as a red dragon and use him to frighten adventurers, I think. :)

I have often looked at some of those mantlepiece figures and thought, \"I could paint better than that....\", so your idea may have legs! I did notice that it\'s a lot about brands and names (both sculptors and \"painters\"), tho, so that might be a barrier. There may well be a similar market for horse miniatures - there\'re a few companies that do unpainted resin horse scuplts (of particular breeds or notable equine celebs) that you can buy and paint - some of them are really nice, if rather pricey.
 

BPI

New member
Hi AmazonWarrior, I didn\'t know about the horses, that\'s interesting. I\'m not a horsey chap but my dad is, potential future gift there if they ever move to a house from the Studio Apartment (says the Estate Agent, I say bedsit!) so that there\'s some display space.

Those part works that you refer to do always vanish off the newasgents shelf after a few weeks but they don\'t stop! I think it was a radio program (or possibly a New Yorker article) I heard where they explained the history of the company that developed the product & the point is you have to subscribe early, they then essentially print-on-demand the remainder of the parts. There are plenty of people who, as completists (or through laziness & a casual attitude to money) won\'t cancel their credit card payment so spend the next 2 years forking out for a full 52 piece set. I suspect they don\'t recoup their costs when ebaying!

B.
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Originally posted by BPI
Hi AmazonWarrior, I didn\'t know about the horses, that\'s interesting. I\'m not a horsey chap but my dad is, potential future gift there if they ever move to a house from the Studio Apartment (says the Estate Agent, I say bedsit!) so that there\'s some display space.
There\'s these guys in the UK, but even their smaller models are a fair bit. The Breyer ones might be worth looking into too. I really want to pick one up and paint it as a present for my sister, but I have a specific kind of horse in mind (mare, thoroughbred-ish) so that I can paint it like a horse we used to own, but a lot of horse models are stallions or geldings, or the wrong breed. :(

Originally posted by BPI
Those part works that you refer to do always vanish off the newasgents shelf after a few weeks but they don\'t stop! I think it was a radio program (or possibly a New Yorker article) I heard where they explained the history of the company that developed the product & the point is you have to subscribe early, they then essentially print-on-demand the remainder of the parts. There are plenty of people who, as completists (or through laziness & a casual attitude to money) won\'t cancel their credit card payment so spend the next 2 years forking out for a full 52 piece set. I suspect they don\'t recoup their costs when ebaying!

B.
I know they don\'t *really* disappear into thin air, but they do seem to! lol The laziness aspect rings a bell - I have a box of recipe cards that I somehow ended up getting on a subscription kind of thing. I pulled the plug on it eventually, before I collected all of them. At least I\'m vaguely likely to use them, given I like cooking, but it was silly and annoying.
 

War Griffon

New member
I have only seen the photo of this dragon and not the actual thing in the flesh so to speak but is it really that much bigger than say the present elven Wood elf/heigh elf dragon or the LOTR dragon that it would warrent a price tag of £65 - £70?

Yes I would still buy one and there is a lot of GW/Citadel collectors out there that would buy one as well so you would be looking at a lot more than 5 sales, even if they brought it our in the collectors range like they did with the goblin spider.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by War Griffon
I have only seen the photo of this dragon and not the actual thing in the flesh so to speak but is it really that much bigger than say the present elven Wood elf/heigh elf dragon or the LOTR dragon that it would warrent a price tag of £65 - £70?

DSC_0398.jpg

In front of the Model are the GW chaos hounds and some Chaos Knights so that should give you some indication of size Martyn.
 

BPI

New member
Hi Amazon Warrior, cheers for the Horse link, that\'s an area of the modelling world that\'s completely new to me. I like the descriptions of the models, not the style of language used for Sci-Fi or Fantasy figs! I\'ll have to find out what breed my Dad likes, & practice painting on my mounted Chaos Marauders!

Cheers, B.
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Originally posted by BPI
Hi Amazon Warrior, cheers for the Horse link, that\'s an area of the modelling world that\'s completely new to me. I like the descriptions of the models, not the style of language used for Sci-Fi or Fantasy figs! I\'ll have to find out what breed my Dad likes, & practice painting on my mounted Chaos Marauders!

Cheers, B.
Np, it\'s quite interesting, isn\'t it? :) Get practicing on those ponies!
 
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