How to acquire Painting Zen
- Thread starter WorkingStiff
- Start date
Shawn R. L.
New member
If you find yourself getting real frustrated, put painting aside for a while. It\'s good to push yourself for a while but at a certain point it becomes counterproductive.
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Tips from the Coffin Dodger:
1. Young eyes help - barring that, get to the counter and get some 3x reading glasses. (about $20)
2. Go easy on the caffeene (sp?). I get the shakes if I\'ve had too much coke.. (Sorry Grumb).
3. Thin your paints. Cannot be emphasised enough. Try some magic wash formulas and see what works for you. If you don\'t like future on your minis, give it to your wife for the floors (mine said to stick it - but that is a different story)
4. Invest in quality. Good brushes won\'t make you a better painter, but they won\'t hold you back like cheap ones do... (same for paints). I know that there are a few who can paint well with craft barrel paints, but I need all the help I can get.
5. Lighting and work area. A lot of work has gone into makeing my workspace ergonomic. Good (secondhand) office chair that I can set in for a couple of hours without needing a trip to the chiropractor and some decent halogen and OTT lights.
6. Paint with other painters that are better than you. Yes, it does help to see how they do that. An hour or two with a better painter is great. You\'d be suprised, but teaching newbs to paint has made me a better painter too.
7. Along those same lines, find a mentor or 3. I use IM to talk to mine and send her WIP (work in progress) pics for her to critique. A few other people around here post harsh but useful comments on my stuff as well.
8. Have fun. If you are not enjoying all of this? why do it? Are you trying to make a living at painting minis? That is not impossible, but very few can do that. Are you trying to win a certain award? Good luck, because a lot of us are after it too. Are you just trying to be the best painter in your group? That we can help you with - unless your group consists of Jenova, Jen Haley, etc..
9. Practice, practice, practice. you don\'t have to paint a whole army of high elves to learn NMM - you\'ll probably get bored. But don\'t expect the first shot of a new technique to look as good as the 10th time you do it either.
10. Now the bad news, your camera skills are almost as important as your painting skills.
I went and looked at your gallery.. You have been all over the board - terrain to hive tyrants to orcs. and I see lots of improvement as well.
1. Young eyes help - barring that, get to the counter and get some 3x reading glasses. (about $20)
2. Go easy on the caffeene (sp?). I get the shakes if I\'ve had too much coke.. (Sorry Grumb).
3. Thin your paints. Cannot be emphasised enough. Try some magic wash formulas and see what works for you. If you don\'t like future on your minis, give it to your wife for the floors (mine said to stick it - but that is a different story)
4. Invest in quality. Good brushes won\'t make you a better painter, but they won\'t hold you back like cheap ones do... (same for paints). I know that there are a few who can paint well with craft barrel paints, but I need all the help I can get.
5. Lighting and work area. A lot of work has gone into makeing my workspace ergonomic. Good (secondhand) office chair that I can set in for a couple of hours without needing a trip to the chiropractor and some decent halogen and OTT lights.
6. Paint with other painters that are better than you. Yes, it does help to see how they do that. An hour or two with a better painter is great. You\'d be suprised, but teaching newbs to paint has made me a better painter too.
7. Along those same lines, find a mentor or 3. I use IM to talk to mine and send her WIP (work in progress) pics for her to critique. A few other people around here post harsh but useful comments on my stuff as well.
8. Have fun. If you are not enjoying all of this? why do it? Are you trying to make a living at painting minis? That is not impossible, but very few can do that. Are you trying to win a certain award? Good luck, because a lot of us are after it too. Are you just trying to be the best painter in your group? That we can help you with - unless your group consists of Jenova, Jen Haley, etc..
9. Practice, practice, practice. you don\'t have to paint a whole army of high elves to learn NMM - you\'ll probably get bored. But don\'t expect the first shot of a new technique to look as good as the 10th time you do it either.
10. Now the bad news, your camera skills are almost as important as your painting skills.
I went and looked at your gallery.. You have been all over the board - terrain to hive tyrants to orcs. and I see lots of improvement as well.
Originally posted by EricJ
Originally posted by WorkingStiff
Of course, I don\'t know how well they could paint if I\'m going \"Howja do that?\" every 2 minitues. I\'d probately end up with a paintbrush stuck in my mouth
LOL, you should actually see me painting, I often use 2 brushes at once, and one is usually sticking out of my mouth for safe keeping as I switch back and forth. So if I stuck one in your mouth, it might just be my attempt to be helpfull
lollollol Just as long as you\'re not painting in lacquers.
Belated welcome to the forums, WorkingStiff! For my part, I can\'t really help you out much since I\'m pretty bad at painting myself. I will, however, put in a vote for getting feedback and good critical advice from other painters, especially if you do have the fortune to be able to hang around with them in person. I got to my little ledge on the plateau from constantly being around folks who were painting at the Game Center, and picking up little things here and there. And work on something that you WANT to work on and spend the time with.
Then read \"The Inner Game of Tennis\". In a nutshell, one idea proposed in that book is if you do something right once, you should be able to do it again. The more you think about it, however, the more likely you are to get in your own way.
BloodiedFangs
New member
i\'ve got a better suggestion here: drink upwards of 5 cups of coffee a day. i guarantee that within a few months, you\'ll never again be haunted by caffeine shakes or the dreaded coffee insomnia (only the regular kind)
WorkingStiff
New member
All these suggestions have helped me see what my problem is with my painting plateau.
And\'s it\'s essentially a mental one. I\'ve been dividing my focus in painting minis for my 40K army and the desire to paint single minis to a higher standard. When I paint minis for my 40K army, I never paint more than 1-2 at a time a week so as to ensure an above average level of quality that I want. Problem is, I still have a tendacy to get uptight while painting such minis because I subconsciously
am trying to hurry up and crank out a certain number and type of troops done so I can fill out my army roster. Because of this hidden agenda I often get impatient while painting the current mini because I\'m thinking of the next minis(s) I have to paint! But I wanted it both ways--quanity and quality in a hurry!
So I\'ve thought about the minis in the past that I did a real killer job on painting, and wondered why I don\'t paint to the same standard now. I always assumed I just would always maintain the same level of quality, and that I would get better and faster as time went by.
I then realized I did such a better job was because I was more interested in just focusing on that single mini at the time than worrying about fullfilling a army quota. All I thought of was how to make that mini come out great. And i took the time and effort to make it so.
So lately I\'ve been suffering from hubris, and wasn\'t focusing on all the techniques that I KNEW I should be doing. I guess I\'m realizing that for me, I have to mentally working the techniques every time I paint. It\'s not, and probately never will be, a automatic reflex for me to use the right painting techiques. I\'m not saying that the intrintisically talented pro painters don\'t work hard. I know they do! But I think because of thier talent they can reflexively do certain painting techniques like breathing. And, more important, they stay focused on just that one mini. So I need to say to myself, \" What level of quality do I want this mini to be? and how hard am I going to sweat the techiques (bone on up them again, etc.,) to achieve that level? And not to fool myself in thinking that just because I painted some great minis in the past, or I **Think** I understand how to blend colors, that I can just grab a brush and and start slapping paint .
Ok. I\'ve finished my confession. Now\'s it time to do my painting pentience
And\'s it\'s essentially a mental one. I\'ve been dividing my focus in painting minis for my 40K army and the desire to paint single minis to a higher standard. When I paint minis for my 40K army, I never paint more than 1-2 at a time a week so as to ensure an above average level of quality that I want. Problem is, I still have a tendacy to get uptight while painting such minis because I subconsciously
am trying to hurry up and crank out a certain number and type of troops done so I can fill out my army roster. Because of this hidden agenda I often get impatient while painting the current mini because I\'m thinking of the next minis(s) I have to paint! But I wanted it both ways--quanity and quality in a hurry!
So I\'ve thought about the minis in the past that I did a real killer job on painting, and wondered why I don\'t paint to the same standard now. I always assumed I just would always maintain the same level of quality, and that I would get better and faster as time went by.
I then realized I did such a better job was because I was more interested in just focusing on that single mini at the time than worrying about fullfilling a army quota. All I thought of was how to make that mini come out great. And i took the time and effort to make it so.
So lately I\'ve been suffering from hubris, and wasn\'t focusing on all the techniques that I KNEW I should be doing. I guess I\'m realizing that for me, I have to mentally working the techniques every time I paint. It\'s not, and probately never will be, a automatic reflex for me to use the right painting techiques. I\'m not saying that the intrintisically talented pro painters don\'t work hard. I know they do! But I think because of thier talent they can reflexively do certain painting techniques like breathing. And, more important, they stay focused on just that one mini. So I need to say to myself, \" What level of quality do I want this mini to be? and how hard am I going to sweat the techiques (bone on up them again, etc.,) to achieve that level? And not to fool myself in thinking that just because I painted some great minis in the past, or I **Think** I understand how to blend colors, that I can just grab a brush and and start slapping paint .
Ok. I\'ve finished my confession. Now\'s it time to do my painting pentience
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
WS, there is nothing wrong in mass producing grunts for your WH army. Line them all up...tonight, we do pants - base coat all, midtone all, highlight all. Tomorrow night - shirts...etc.
alter the paints a bit as you go, lighten the midtone, darken the midtone, etc.
but show pieces (leaders?) should be painted solo and for the enjoyment of painting. But keep in mind that leaders will be played with - as opposed to a true show piece that will only set on a shelf.
alter the paints a bit as you go, lighten the midtone, darken the midtone, etc.
but show pieces (leaders?) should be painted solo and for the enjoyment of painting. But keep in mind that leaders will be played with - as opposed to a true show piece that will only set on a shelf.
@WS you are actually touching on a lot of the same issues that I went through myself. I made a transition from painting armies, where I was trying to get multiple troops and units done relatively fast, to focusing on single miniatures where I needed to focus on prefecting each surface before moving on to the next.
A big problem that I did have was constantly having to remind myself to use more advanced techniques, I kept finding I would get a little impatient and suddenly I would start making drybrushing brush-strokes, where they really had no place. Basically unless I really concentrated to remember to push myself to use or try technique at or just above my level of ability, I would fall back on the tried and true, but less advanced techniques.
So it is a mental struggle to large degree when taking on a project to paint an individual mini to the best of your ability to make sure you are really pushing yourself every step. However after months and months of it...it does get a touch easier
A big problem that I did have was constantly having to remind myself to use more advanced techniques, I kept finding I would get a little impatient and suddenly I would start making drybrushing brush-strokes, where they really had no place. Basically unless I really concentrated to remember to push myself to use or try technique at or just above my level of ability, I would fall back on the tried and true, but less advanced techniques.
So it is a mental struggle to large degree when taking on a project to paint an individual mini to the best of your ability to make sure you are really pushing yourself every step. However after months and months of it...it does get a touch easier
Am I lucky in that I have the opposite problem? SItting with a unit of 6 skellie horsemen, I have to force myself to drybrush. Force myself to make things quick, and force myself into not blending. Of course it doesn\'t really work, I end up taking far too much time on one grunt mini. As a result, I get bored of minis quickly. I have more WIP than I have ever completed, and it\'s because I\'m never happy with \'sub-standard\' painting to get an army painted up.
I keep saying to myself that I\'ll stick to doing individual minis, but I also want my armies painted. And with another 7500+ points of Dark Elves to go... I despair. Never mind the Tomb Kings or the Rackham minis I have.
I keep saying to myself that I\'ll stick to doing individual minis, but I also want my armies painted. And with another 7500+ points of Dark Elves to go... I despair. Never mind the Tomb Kings or the Rackham minis I have.
WorkingStiff
New member
Another question--Do you guys pretty much establish your own paint style that you use all the time, or do you paint as required by the theme of the mini? I\'ll explain what I mean. I \'m an old time model builder--Been building them since I was a kid in the early 1960\'s (I\'m in my late forties)
Well, I was a WWII buff, and every model I painted was pretty much dull/flat finished, camoflauged, and weathered. So I have a tendency to be rather conservative in my painting style---I seldom paint really bright, flashly , multi-colored minis. I usually only use really bright colors for accents and special bits on the mini. (Can\'t stand the old GW method of painting Goblin Green bases!)
Another painter I know who runs a hobby shop is similiar--He paints most of his minis in warm earth tones. He does very nice work, and it seems to work for him.
So are any of you guys in the same situation? Can you easily shift from bright, cartoony eye candy to subtle, dark & sophisticated? Or do you pretty much stick to the method of expression that you feel comfortable with?
A bit off the subject, but for me being new to this board and all, what\'s WIP mean?
Well, I was a WWII buff, and every model I painted was pretty much dull/flat finished, camoflauged, and weathered. So I have a tendency to be rather conservative in my painting style---I seldom paint really bright, flashly , multi-colored minis. I usually only use really bright colors for accents and special bits on the mini. (Can\'t stand the old GW method of painting Goblin Green bases!)
Another painter I know who runs a hobby shop is similiar--He paints most of his minis in warm earth tones. He does very nice work, and it seems to work for him.
So are any of you guys in the same situation? Can you easily shift from bright, cartoony eye candy to subtle, dark & sophisticated? Or do you pretty much stick to the method of expression that you feel comfortable with?
A bit off the subject, but for me being new to this board and all, what\'s WIP mean?
WIP is short for Work in Progress, I believe.
I think a lot people have a certain aesthetic that they tend towards. There\'s a wide range, for instance, between the people who prefer to paint with very bright and bold highlights and the ones who tend to more understated textures. It all depends on what you want to do in the end. They are little metal toys, after all...art or not.
I think a lot people have a certain aesthetic that they tend towards. There\'s a wide range, for instance, between the people who prefer to paint with very bright and bold highlights and the ones who tend to more understated textures. It all depends on what you want to do in the end. They are little metal toys, after all...art or not.
Well, I suppose the better you are at mini painting, the more you are able to express yourself. Like a language, the better you know your natural language, the better you can express yourself.
So yeah, I have my own way of visualising minis, we all must have, but only when we have the skill and technique can we really bring that to life on a mini, or bring out what the mini is saying to us.
However, that also might dictate what minis we paint. Dark Elves suit me, Blood Angels definitely do not!
So yeah, I have my own way of visualising minis, we all must have, but only when we have the skill and technique can we really bring that to life on a mini, or bring out what the mini is saying to us.
However, that also might dictate what minis we paint. Dark Elves suit me, Blood Angels definitely do not!
I found that for a long time I stuck generally to one style, typically darker, higher contrast (shadows went all the way to black and highlights all the way to white), with similar colors, black, white, red, browns, greys.
Until just recently I decided it was time to break from this, paint a brighter mini, using only blues and greens, very different from my \"comfort zone\". The result was my highest rated mini! So I think it was a good. However I\'m not sure if it would have been such a good idea months ago when I wasn\'t as comfortable with the brushes. It may have been, but in the end it was definately good I did it.
Until just recently I decided it was time to break from this, paint a brighter mini, using only blues and greens, very different from my \"comfort zone\". The result was my highest rated mini! So I think it was a good. However I\'m not sure if it would have been such a good idea months ago when I wasn\'t as comfortable with the brushes. It may have been, but in the end it was definately good I did it.
TAB Studio
New member
WorkingStiff
Well I was brave enough to find a mentor and thank gosh I was stupid and did not know how revered he was when I asked and, he was un-jaded enough to give me help and still is my rock frankly I have grown to love his family even though I may never meet them in person sharing art is a joy.
I got better paints I started with craft paints and just changed brushes oh my gosh I had no idea none I also use a magnifying light but I am indeed visually challenged
I was angry at a situation recently I painted I thought so much about it that i forgot to be critical of myself I found out that I held me back and still can if allowed
I remember there is always a simple green strip cure most of my minis get cleaned more than once.
I love the WIP Thread I guess I got used to the fear by having to send pictures to the master that helps me so these guys do not scare me at all the peeps are very kind and have not hurt my feelings nor others I have seen.
Cry Havoc good stuff there
Photo your work in progress I see much more that way it is an invaluable way to take a distanced look and good practice for the final picture.
Join the round robin I saw the first one with Trevor\'s sword and nail painters flesh and... and... and a light bulb went off. My mentor sent a Christmas mini and OMG I understood so much more I agree with you that to see is very helpful and there is nothing like 3 D.
Well I was brave enough to find a mentor and thank gosh I was stupid and did not know how revered he was when I asked and, he was un-jaded enough to give me help and still is my rock frankly I have grown to love his family even though I may never meet them in person sharing art is a joy.
I got better paints I started with craft paints and just changed brushes oh my gosh I had no idea none I also use a magnifying light but I am indeed visually challenged
I was angry at a situation recently I painted I thought so much about it that i forgot to be critical of myself I found out that I held me back and still can if allowed
I remember there is always a simple green strip cure most of my minis get cleaned more than once.
I love the WIP Thread I guess I got used to the fear by having to send pictures to the master that helps me so these guys do not scare me at all the peeps are very kind and have not hurt my feelings nor others I have seen.
Cry Havoc good stuff there
Photo your work in progress I see much more that way it is an invaluable way to take a distanced look and good practice for the final picture.
Join the round robin I saw the first one with Trevor\'s sword and nail painters flesh and... and... and a light bulb went off. My mentor sent a Christmas mini and OMG I understood so much more I agree with you that to see is very helpful and there is nothing like 3 D.
You might want to take a look at some of the slightly older threads, and polls. I did a poll just a little while ago (look on General, page 3, I think), asking everyone\'s favourite colour schemes. There were quite a number of people that posted extra comments there, as well.
Might be worth a peek.
WorkingStiff
New member
My mentor sent a Christmas mini and OMG I understood so much more I agree with you that to see is very helpful and there is nothing like 3 D.
I agree 100%! Last fall I lucked out and won a auction on a beautifully painted Ultramarine Librarian Tigerus charactor. Nobody else bid on it because his eBay rating was low being a newbie, but I recognized the quality of the paint job right off. It was highly detailed, well blended, and with excellent hightlighting. It was several levels above my painting level, that\'s for sure! Having that mini in front of me helped my painting dramatically. I corresponded with the fellow who painted it for several months afterward, and he generously gave me a lot of great advice.
Having a first class mini like that is the next best thing to watching a pro-painter. I think that any miniature painter who is really serious in improving his or her painting should consider seriously scraping up the bucks and buy a a quality mini from a recognized and proven pro painter.
Though I\'m sure I\'m not the first guy here to say that...
I agree 100%! Last fall I lucked out and won a auction on a beautifully painted Ultramarine Librarian Tigerus charactor. Nobody else bid on it because his eBay rating was low being a newbie, but I recognized the quality of the paint job right off. It was highly detailed, well blended, and with excellent hightlighting. It was several levels above my painting level, that\'s for sure! Having that mini in front of me helped my painting dramatically. I corresponded with the fellow who painted it for several months afterward, and he generously gave me a lot of great advice.
Having a first class mini like that is the next best thing to watching a pro-painter. I think that any miniature painter who is really serious in improving his or her painting should consider seriously scraping up the bucks and buy a a quality mini from a recognized and proven pro painter.
Though I\'m sure I\'m not the first guy here to say that...
WorkingStiff
New member
....Forgot to mention this in my last post.
Just want to say how much I appreciate the kind advice and encouragement. I\'ve checked out some of your galleries, and am VERY humbled that such master painters would spend the time of day helping a journeyman such as myself. It\'s comforting to know that the people here on the site are as nice as the minis they paint.
Just want to say how much I appreciate the kind advice and encouragement. I\'ve checked out some of your galleries, and am VERY humbled that such master painters would spend the time of day helping a journeyman such as myself. It\'s comforting to know that the people here on the site are as nice as the minis they paint.
