Introduction and Airbrush questions.

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Hi there, just though I'd take this time to introduce myself before I start the barrage of asinine questions that you pros get hit with from paint-bespeckled noobies.

I'm about twenty years out the hobby, and last time round my artistic talent was akin to picking three colours and going to town, thick and hard. However, now im a grown ass man, I have disposable income and make important household choices about broadband companies.

I'm from North East UK, when I was a kid I started with Hero Quest and Space Crusade, before moving onto WH40k 2nd edition (think it was second) then Gorka Morka etc. Now I don't really play anything, but im looking to. I bought my son WH AOS, Hes five and loves to look at the 'monsters' in the local GW, he doesn't 'play' with them but loves looking at them and is always looking for any excuse to roll a massive handful of dice. I love the miniatures from Forge world, Kingdom Death,WoK, Malifaux and Guild ball and hope to play them all in the future, Anyhow I digress...

I painted my first batch of liberators, after watching what felt like hundreds of videos on painting tutorials and reading up on the forums here, they were interesting and its much harder to paint that I remember. I wouldn't say they were awful, absolutely at a table top army standard if I do say so myself. I used layers of dry brushing for a dirty but layerd bronze gold and then hand painted in the details after washes.

I've always liked the look of airbrushing and checked out some sets, they vary in price from about £30 up to £500, so I decided to put it to the experts. What I'm looking for is an entry level set up, but one that will still be relevant and useful in a couple of years, I don't plan on spending hundreds of pounds every year on updated air brushes etc. Sure when I reach a whole new level I'll upgrade but I don't want to have to upgrade from basics to basics.

A set I checked out was from Element games in the Uk, the Iwata Neo gravity fed airbrush and Neo compressor. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is it enough to last a few years? any help or info is greatly appreciated. I'm willing to spend about £150 on an entry level set up to get me started.

cheers
Patch.

TL;DR

Im new and would like to know what airbrush setups are good entry level for about £150.

 

[Zab]

nope. buy a good solid on from badger or iawata or H & S and it will last FOREVER and you will learn with it. Same goes for the compressor. Get a good one and it will last 25yrs + You can get a really good AB (badger 105, iawata eclipse or H&S 2 in one) for a around 150 USD and the compressor can be a simple oil free tankless single stage for about 200 USD. That set up will be robust and versatile enough to last you literally decades and let you refine your skills and grow over time. DO NOT wast money on entry level sht you will just have to scrap and then dump 300 bucks to get the decent set up. If you know you are in it for the long haul then go all in. Even if you are going to quit then those decent brands resell better than the cheap ebay crap from china

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Thank you, thats exactly the sort of information I was looking for. So a good solid airbrush from iawata or badger is the way to go and the compressor itself just needs to be a decent compressor.

 

[Zab]

no problem. I am using an old old old testors compressor and my main AB is the 105 from badger. I have heard great thing about the eclipse from iawata though and the folks in europe seem to love H&S. Get what is easily available locally for you because there is nothing worse than waiting on spare parts in the mail if you lose something or damage something cleaning it That is why i personally go with badger even though i would love to try an iawata !

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Just been checking out the eclipse cs and a sparmax compressor, whole set up for about £250, if thats going to see me the twenty years then it would be silly not to. Its amazing how I'm able to validate these things to myself.

 

[Zab]

Hell that's like 10 bucks a year over 25 years! Not bad

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

When you put it like that, I'd actually be really irresponsible not to, infact, I'd spend less money on that set up than I would on frivolous things like soap and tomato ketchup in a twenty year span. :shock:

 

[Splurch]

As mentioned a few other times, the Badger Patriot 105 is a great starter brush. It won't be great for detail work, but it excels at priming/basecoating/sealing. Very easy to take apart and clean. It's simply a great workhorse that will last (all individual parts can be purchased if something does break) and will serve you well. As for a compressor, I'd recommend getting a cheap one to start, and if you really get into it get a better one. I bought a compressor at Harbor Freight (US) for about $50 a few years ago and still use it. I plan on replacing it at some point as I want to get one with a tank, but it hasn't had any issues so far so I'm not in any rush to do so.

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Thanks for the advice Splurch. I've had a little look around, and I'm not coming across many badger airbrushes here in the uk, if any. Perhaps they're a little harder to come by here in the UK? (Or maybe I've just been looking under the wrong rocks) What I've picked up from the comments though is that the focus should be on the airbrush and not on the compressor, which I wasn't aware of before I made the post, I don't really need a good airbrush and a comparitively good compressor, so I'm wiser now than I was a few hours ago. Saved me some pennies that can be invested in some paints for the new airbrush.

 

[Splurch]

They are a US based company and I don't think they do an incredible amount of international sales, but I know the 105 is available on Amazon UK. You're correct about the compressor, as long as it has a moisture trap, pressure regulator (both are pretty standard on smaller compressors) and gives a decently consistent stream of air then it will work well for anything but detail. If you want to start doing a lot of really small details make sure whatever compressor you get has an air tank (or you can hook one up yourself) as that's the best way to ensure the air flow is reliable. Starting with a cheap compressor will give you a feel for how they work, give you a better idea of what you'll want out of a better quality one and save you money to put towards a better airbrush

 

[Schwarz-Brot]

One more important thing on cheap compressors: Do not get a membrane-type. They are ultra cheap but extremely loud, they wander all around the table and don't last very long. I would suggest getting a cheap compressor with a tank on it right from the start. The tank helps getting an even airflow AND the compressor is not running as soon as you start spraying. There is no use saving 20 bucks by buying one without tank and then having to upgrade pretty soon.

I have no experience with H&S airbrushes, but I have a pretty good feeling about the company. My airbrush is a Hansa Model 581 I got as a teenager. Airbrushing did not work for me back then. 15 Years later Hansa is part of H&S. And guess what? Every single part and even updates to my gun are available nearly everywhere! So I can tell, H&S is a company I do absolutely recommend. I will pretty sure get another airbrush so I do not have to change nozzles any more. I can tell you, it is going to be a H&S!
In fact, I have some other airbrushs. There are cheap-ass ones from amazon, and old(!) Revell guns. I see lots of people working with that stuff, but it is like with any quality tool. If you ever had some time with the real thing you never want to go back. The difference in Quality is just breathtaking. And you don't have to fiddle with the imperfections of your tool while just learning how to use it. There is nothing more frustrating.

Next thing: For the start I would go with a larger nozzle size and work my way down over time. It is a good thing to have a gun in a system with several available sizes. The finer the nozzle gets, the more problems you might encounter which is really frustrating in the beginning. Plus the parts are getting more and more delicate. Never-ever get force on the tip of your needle. NEVER.
Personally I do like push-in nozzles. I hate to work with a tool on such a delicate part for unsrewing. And I hate searching for that tool...

 

[MAXXxxx]

+1 for compressor with tank.
As it not only helps with an even airflow and such, but also makes the motor to last longer as it doesn't have to constantly run. So far I had 2 compressors 1 cheap withtout tank, died after about 2 or 3 years (of sporadic use), and the current one, that has a tank (and in theory is a better one, altough from the outside they look the same) and I use it since I bought it without a problem (since 2010, so 5 years).

as for AB I'd say buy 2:
- one cheap noname chinese one with a 0.5 needle for rough work (terrain, dioramas, tanks, priming, varnishing, etc), they are quite good for the price of about 20 euro-s on ebay. One warning don't try to repair them if something goes wrong. I tried once. Repair costed 35 euros, buying a new one was 20 with postage.
- one quality, good one that'll be used the most. Because of internal design I love the Harder-and-Steenbeck the most (super easy to disassemble-assemble --> super easy to clean/maintain) made in germany --> easy to get parts (never needed one so far, but just in case). Otherwise they are pretty much the same as iwata-s and such in handling. The HnS-Infinity's 0.15 needle allow some extreme precision, but is a b*tch to use with paints not designed for AB use (pigment not groung fine enough).

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Really appreciate all the help and expertise. Just to update, ordered myself a compressor with a tank, bug clunky AB and an iwata eclipse. Now all that's left is to ruin all my favorite mini's.

 

[airhead]

1. Air is air. You don't have to spend a fortune on an AB type compressor when a Home Store compressor will do so much more and cost about the same. Downsize is the handyman compressors tend to be much louder. Try before you buy.

2. Good brands: H&S, Iwata, Badger (depends on the model) and several others. You tend to get what you pay for. A $20 airbrush is probably junk and will give you more problems and frustration while you're trying to learn.

3. You are not going to paint details on minis with an AB. It would take much longer than using a brush. But you can prime, base coat and clear coat with them.

4. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Learn to disassemble and clean your AB.

5. Spare parts are a must. You need a spare needle and nozzle (cone). You will crash the tip at some point and have to change them out. Pricing and availability of the spare parts may help you decide which AB to get.

 

[TechnicolorTaco]

What seems to be the thoughts on Grex airbrushes?
I'm also looking into beginning airbrushing for miniatures and I'd like the ability to do some other types of fine art as well(Though I'm aware this may require an additional airbrush purchase).

 

[MAXXxxx]

no experience with the grex ones, but apparently the painters at scale75 and andrea use it too, so it can't be bad.

 

[Quantra]

I bought the Sparmax ARISM kit to get me going. I like it but think I could have done better for the money. Ie an ebay compressor with tank would have been cheaper and likely better (I have no tank). However branded stuff gives me confidence as a newbie. The airbrush itself is awesome and very easy to use IMO.

There are some excellent videos on youtube with Ken from Badger who isn't shy to discuss other brands and give away secrets. Well worth a search/watch before you buy, they are all made by war gamers consortium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsW-vN0_lHw

One thing I learnt which stopped me buying another airbrush is that he tells you what the different size needles/nozzles are for and tiny 0.15-0.25mm nozzles are intended for inks and dyes not acrylic paint. 0.3-0.5mm is meant to be good for Acrylics.

If I was going to invest in a compressor then I'd get a Wurther Sil-Air as they use the same compressors found in fridges so really can be used all night without waking anyone up... Around £300 though =/

 

[Patches Snotgobbler]

Managed to pick up an iwata eclipse for £100 from amazon and an airfox ? Compressor with tank for about 75. Picked up cleaning fluid and and a few maintenance pieces all in all full set up for about £200. That should see me a couple of years, so thanks for the help guys.