Is this thing for real??
- Thread starter Shawn R. L.
- Start date
wiccanpony
Official Freak Bar Witch
he\'ll have to kill a lot of Americans to get those guns
Theomar Pius
New member
yep, because all wars are bad and being strong is being evil...
ossessed:
ossessed:I\'m not sure if this is all taken out of context, but maybe JUST MAYBE, protecting ourselves from an \'outside evil\' while our country rots from within may not be the wisest of policies.
Thats the policy we\'ve had for many years, almost a full generation.
Our people are falling behind. Our jobs are being sent overseas, our dollar cannot compete, the stock market hasn\'t done anything in years.
But yeah, lets worry about how many freaking nuclear bombs we have.
Thats the policy we\'ve had for many years, almost a full generation.
Our people are falling behind. Our jobs are being sent overseas, our dollar cannot compete, the stock market hasn\'t done anything in years.
But yeah, lets worry about how many freaking nuclear bombs we have.
Dragon Forge Design
New member
Well theres never going to be a world with out nukes, cause somone will lie and have just one..and well if someone thinks they might have one..well they will keep 5..and you can see where this is going.
Like I was discussing with my neighbor tonight, no president can really do anything he promises in an election with out the approval of congress. That usually takes promises, lies and deceit to get them passed
See pre election promises are just that.. he could promise every American a free pony and a bucket of jelly beans if hes elected..and if enough like that offer and he wins, well as my father would say..you could wish with one hand for that Pony and shit in the other.. see what one fills up faster.
Like I was discussing with my neighbor tonight, no president can really do anything he promises in an election with out the approval of congress. That usually takes promises, lies and deceit to get them passed
See pre election promises are just that.. he could promise every American a free pony and a bucket of jelly beans if hes elected..and if enough like that offer and he wins, well as my father would say..you could wish with one hand for that Pony and shit in the other.. see what one fills up faster.
All I know about anything as a middle class person is that I\'m getting boned from both ends. My taxes are ever increasing, my salary stays the same, but inflation keeps it two years behind the times.
I try to do the right thing, and save money for my \'hopeful\' retirement, only to have it worth less than if I shoved the bills under my mattress.
I can\'t afford the increases in my health insurance, and I ain\'t getting any healthier...
The poor pay nothing, the rich pay nothing. I guess I should quit arguing and just pay my dues, like the good citizen I\'m expected to be.
What is my incentive to go to work everyday again?
I doubt like hell Obama is the answer, but I do know that change couldn\'t hurt.
I\'m sick of all the politicians thinking working America is a friggin\' ATM that just dispenses everything you need.
I say we let Iraq go straight to hell and start spending that money to fix our crumbling infastructure.
OR, take the bastards over and be done with it, pay for it with the oil that we inherit. It would solve our oil crisis.
We need to stop being the everycountry to the world, and start tending our own garden.
I try to do the right thing, and save money for my \'hopeful\' retirement, only to have it worth less than if I shoved the bills under my mattress.
I can\'t afford the increases in my health insurance, and I ain\'t getting any healthier...
The poor pay nothing, the rich pay nothing. I guess I should quit arguing and just pay my dues, like the good citizen I\'m expected to be.
What is my incentive to go to work everyday again?
I doubt like hell Obama is the answer, but I do know that change couldn\'t hurt.
I\'m sick of all the politicians thinking working America is a friggin\' ATM that just dispenses everything you need.
I say we let Iraq go straight to hell and start spending that money to fix our crumbling infastructure.
OR, take the bastards over and be done with it, pay for it with the oil that we inherit. It would solve our oil crisis.
We need to stop being the everycountry to the world, and start tending our own garden.
Dragon Forge Design
New member
No Vike I totally agree with you, but with all the programs Obama is promising, the moneys got to come from somewhere to pay for it.. and I can guarantee you it wont be the super rich.. hes going to look at what segment of the population that has the most wealth..and that my friend in a cumulative total is the working class and they will tax the shit out of us. trust me you have seen nothing yet when it comes to taxes.
If you think gas is high now, wait till they add a tax to it to pay for that national health care program hes promising.. they have to get the money from somewhere..
As for this change? Id really like to know what exactly it is so I can plan on it..cause right now all they say is Change and Yes we can.
In case you want to know, I don\'t support either party more than the other.. they both lie cheat and steal from the American public as far as I\'m concerned.
If you think gas is high now, wait till they add a tax to it to pay for that national health care program hes promising.. they have to get the money from somewhere..
As for this change? Id really like to know what exactly it is so I can plan on it..cause right now all they say is Change and Yes we can.
In case you want to know, I don\'t support either party more than the other.. they both lie cheat and steal from the American public as far as I\'m concerned.
BarstoolProphet
New member
Why do I suddenly have The Beatles music in my head?
Dragon Forge Design
New member
If it was only that easy.
To be honest I don\'t know. I can say this, Ive never been more afraid for my future than I am now. I\'m 43 and make a so so living, I\'m trying to start a company that is beginning to take off, yet its dependent on a solid economy to succeed. Yet with the plan of one \"future hope to be elected president\" if he has his way he will tax hard working people like my self to death if we succeed to give it to those who wont get up off their ass to make the same attempt at a future I am.
The big question is why should I bother..
Vike, I know you are worried about the deficit and no doubt it is worrisome, but take a look at the numbers.
Now if you remember that the last time we had a surplus, the party in control was not the party in control now.
The war was going on for 4 years and the deficit was shrinking. hmmm... but in 2008 we suddenly go up to 400+ billion in an election year with what party in control of the house and senate, which controls the budget...
Remember that the last attempt at an Iraq withdrawal bill, in that one bill 2+ Billion dollars of Pork was attached. One Bill.
Also remember that 9/11 and Katrina which both cost us billions, happened way before 2008 and the deficit was still shrinking.
Remember that Stimulus Package? The current congress voted on that knowing it would increase the deficit.
As for National Health Care we already have an example of present day government health care plan that you can examine to your hearts content.
Walter Reed Memorial Hospital
Windfall Profits Tax? It failed when Carter tried it.
Exxon Mobil had an amazing year last year. $404 billion in revenue and $40 billion in operating income. Sounds great, right? Well, that was only 10% profit. Looked at another way, they spent $364 billion (including $30 billion in taxes) in 2007.
Microsoft made $60 billion and has $17.8 billion in operating income. 28.5% profit.
So, what is the definition of a windfall profit? Just a lot of money, or, a big margin between income and expenses?
Change? Heh, that\'s all you\'ll have left in your pockets.
Now if you remember that the last time we had a surplus, the party in control was not the party in control now.
The war was going on for 4 years and the deficit was shrinking. hmmm... but in 2008 we suddenly go up to 400+ billion in an election year with what party in control of the house and senate, which controls the budget...
Remember that the last attempt at an Iraq withdrawal bill, in that one bill 2+ Billion dollars of Pork was attached. One Bill.
Also remember that 9/11 and Katrina which both cost us billions, happened way before 2008 and the deficit was still shrinking.
Remember that Stimulus Package? The current congress voted on that knowing it would increase the deficit.
As for National Health Care we already have an example of present day government health care plan that you can examine to your hearts content.
Walter Reed Memorial Hospital
Windfall Profits Tax? It failed when Carter tried it.
Exxon Mobil had an amazing year last year. $404 billion in revenue and $40 billion in operating income. Sounds great, right? Well, that was only 10% profit. Looked at another way, they spent $364 billion (including $30 billion in taxes) in 2007.
Microsoft made $60 billion and has $17.8 billion in operating income. 28.5% profit.
So, what is the definition of a windfall profit? Just a lot of money, or, a big margin between income and expenses?
Change? Heh, that\'s all you\'ll have left in your pockets.
funnymouth
Active member
hate to burst your \"dont tax me\" bubble, but weve been buying shit for the last few decades without paying for it. someone has to - you, or your children...you decide.
just a friendly reminder....
national debt:
it works out to about $32,000 a person (larger than my and my wifes cumulative annual income, but less than our student loans...)
and, as far as obamas plans, well here is what cnn says: obama tax plan
looks like a tax break for the middle and a hike for the top, but considering this...
i dont think its all that unfair - not that i think it will actually happen. politicians do love to pander though, so maybe if we bitch enough, something might change.
call me when the revolution starts, until then ill vote. i cant vote for what i want, so ill vote for the closest puppet.
just a friendly reminder....
national debt:
it works out to about $32,000 a person (larger than my and my wifes cumulative annual income, but less than our student loans...)
and, as far as obamas plans, well here is what cnn says: obama tax plan
looks like a tax break for the middle and a hike for the top, but considering this...
i dont think its all that unfair - not that i think it will actually happen. politicians do love to pander though, so maybe if we bitch enough, something might change.
call me when the revolution starts, until then ill vote. i cant vote for what i want, so ill vote for the closest puppet.
funnymouth
Active member
so this
must just be a really big coincidence then...
Show me the party in control of congress, which actually controls the budget, those years.
Here found it for you.
Party Control of Congress and the Presidency
Please, explain to me how taxing the rich MORE and taxing the middle classes LESS equals \"Fair\"?
It seems \"fair\" when you are one of the middle class/poor. It\'s always \"fair\" when it\'s not your money. Simple redistribution of wealth, socialism fueled by class warfare.
Fair - marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism
Seems to me a flat tax is the only \"fair\" solution, every other method is favoring or prejudiced to some other class.
Hmm... let\'s say for arguments sake that we do a flat tax of 15%.
Wealthy = $1000000 = $150000 tax
Middle = $100000 = $15000 tax
Poor = $10000 = $1500 tax
Everyone pays the same percentage, yet the Wealthy still pay more which in return the wealthy will get far less back for his taxes than the Poor (Who will get it back in the form of educational benefits, welfare, food stamps etc.) so it seems as fair as we can get.
And to be quite honest what Obama says this week compared to what he says next week hasn\'t jived this entire election.
NAFTA or Non NAFTA???
Drill or Not???
So, do I think McCain is perfect?
Absolutely not. Merely the lesser of two idiots, and with Pelosi as the Speaker I shudder to think of the damage Obama and she can do to this country.
You know Pelosi right? She doesn\'t think Natural Gas is a fossil fuel (It is and we still must drill for it.), and that the Catholic church has contention over abortion (They do not, their stance has always been conception). The woman blocking drilling and come to find out she has stocks in two alternative energy companies? Conflict of Interest? The woman who tried to raise minimum wage except in her own district because it favored Del Monte Foods? Whom she had been omitting from the minimum wage hikes since 1999?
Speaking of Democrat promises and Pelosi:
The Pelosi Premium
I\'m actually disgusted that this is the best and the brightest we have to offer.
Here found it for you.
Party Control of Congress and the Presidency
Please, explain to me how taxing the rich MORE and taxing the middle classes LESS equals \"Fair\"?
It seems \"fair\" when you are one of the middle class/poor. It\'s always \"fair\" when it\'s not your money. Simple redistribution of wealth, socialism fueled by class warfare.
Fair - marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism
Seems to me a flat tax is the only \"fair\" solution, every other method is favoring or prejudiced to some other class.
Hmm... let\'s say for arguments sake that we do a flat tax of 15%.
Wealthy = $1000000 = $150000 tax
Middle = $100000 = $15000 tax
Poor = $10000 = $1500 tax
Everyone pays the same percentage, yet the Wealthy still pay more which in return the wealthy will get far less back for his taxes than the Poor (Who will get it back in the form of educational benefits, welfare, food stamps etc.) so it seems as fair as we can get.
And to be quite honest what Obama says this week compared to what he says next week hasn\'t jived this entire election.
NAFTA or Non NAFTA???
Drill or Not???
So, do I think McCain is perfect?
Absolutely not. Merely the lesser of two idiots, and with Pelosi as the Speaker I shudder to think of the damage Obama and she can do to this country.
You know Pelosi right? She doesn\'t think Natural Gas is a fossil fuel (It is and we still must drill for it.), and that the Catholic church has contention over abortion (They do not, their stance has always been conception). The woman blocking drilling and come to find out she has stocks in two alternative energy companies? Conflict of Interest? The woman who tried to raise minimum wage except in her own district because it favored Del Monte Foods? Whom she had been omitting from the minimum wage hikes since 1999?
Speaking of Democrat promises and Pelosi:
The Pelosi Premium
I\'m actually disgusted that this is the best and the brightest we have to offer.
funnymouth
Active member
wealth confers great legal and societal privilege to those inventive enough to earn it or <cough> special enough to pop out of a golden oven. an increased tax is a small price to pay for freedom from societal norms. consider the inequity of the legal system. many of the consequences for braking the law are fiscal, and independent of personal finances, as such the poor are disproportionately punished (or the wealthy are favored, whichever you prefer).
sure does.
nope, not always
ahem, I dont want the money, i want to use the money to pay for things our government (and by extension the people) has purchased, largely to the benefit of the most wealthy.
fair - just or appropriate in the circumstances
B.S.
You know why? Because the criminals aren\'t punished. Period. Prisons which used to be scary, aren\'t any more. I can honestly say after living in Military conditions, after the first Gulf War, prison doesn\'t scare me at all. Prison would be easy, just extremely inconvenient.
Hell, to some of our working poor and middle classes Prison is a step up. I don\'t have cable, free education, a weight room nor do I usually have the time for three square meals a day, and I\'m not hurting too bad financially. (Though I am not wealthy or even upper middle now by any means.)
The taxpayer, wealthy, middle and poor is punished with the responsibility of paying for their food, incarceration, cable, weight rooms, etc. for someone who will never put that money back into the system.
They pay their debt to society? BS they put us more in debt. At least we can fine the crap out of the wealthy and not put a burden on the taxpayers.
I just got robbed last month. I lost over $6000 dollars of stuff that I will not recoup, some family heirlooms that I will never recoup. Ever. Yet, I\'m still taxed to keep the guy alive and comfortable rather than him being made to work off/pay me back for the crap he stole.
That, my friend, would be justice, that would be fair, the punishment would fit the crime.
Instead, I (and you as well) are paying for the privilege to be robbed, and in fact, am continuing to be robbed through taxes. Where\'s the justice in that?
I\'ve been dirt poor I\'ve been Upper middle and I\'ve been between. A simple motto that has kept me pretty safe: \"Actions have Consequences.\"
It\'s kept me clear of the law regardless of wealth level.
Mr.S.Marbo
New member
... then try out UK gas / petrol prices, and then you\'ll find out the real meaning of high hehe
I do find it strange that \"everyone\" hates tax when the Scandinavian countries that have very high taxes and a reasonable amount of income redistribution always end up on in the top countries with higher life expectancy, quality of life, happiness, and \"best places to live\" in the world. Makes me think that a low tax rate isn\'t necessarily the thing that\'s needed to have a country with a happier and healthier population with good living standards. Surely it\'s more \"what you spend it on\" that makes the real difference instead of looking at the tax itself as the problem.
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Historically, the Democratic party was the party of the labor union. (working man), while the Republican party was the party of big business (rich).
Over time is seems that the Dems have become the \"tax the middle class and rich for welfare\" party while the Reps have become the \"tax the middle class but leave my loopholes alone\" party. Both parties have their hands deep in my back pocket.
Since the 60\'s, the parties have become more and more -winged in their views. There is no middle ground anymore.
Neither offer a solution. Both want more money from me - one way or another.
Sadly, these two people are the best that either party can produce? I\'m looking for the candidate that says \"Want less government in your life? Less taxes? Vote for me.\" Arnie may have it right. Working for the state should not be a ride on the gravy train. Don\'t like it, get a real job.
Over time is seems that the Dems have become the \"tax the middle class and rich for welfare\" party while the Reps have become the \"tax the middle class but leave my loopholes alone\" party. Both parties have their hands deep in my back pocket.
Since the 60\'s, the parties have become more and more -winged in their views. There is no middle ground anymore.
Neither offer a solution. Both want more money from me - one way or another.
Sadly, these two people are the best that either party can produce? I\'m looking for the candidate that says \"Want less government in your life? Less taxes? Vote for me.\" Arnie may have it right. Working for the state should not be a ride on the gravy train. Don\'t like it, get a real job.
You are dead on there Airhead. Even in my lifetime there were real differences between the two parties. Nowadays, the are basically the same.
We need a third VIABLE party.
And a flat tax. 15 percent for everyone, NO deductions. While I don\'t know the actual percentage we\'d really need, I cannot imagine a more fair system. That could turn the IRS into a much smaller organization...the way it was designed.
We need a third VIABLE party.
And a flat tax. 15 percent for everyone, NO deductions. While I don\'t know the actual percentage we\'d really need, I cannot imagine a more fair system. That could turn the IRS into a much smaller organization...the way it was designed.
Thunderhawker
New member
Neither of the twits running should be president. We have an inexperience party puppet, and a crotchety, possibly crazy, old man. Being a vet, I have to go with the guy who served, vice the guy who wants to cut the military down to nothing.
