It\'s happening in Florida again.

[wiccanpony]

make it stop!!!!!!

one.......I have voted-(love the early voting)

two.......I wish the whole damn thing was over with-(hate all the mail, phone calls and door-to-door PITAs) :flame:

three.......can my friend \"Chad\" come out of hiding-(no really, poor man cant\' take to many more hanging chad jokes):~(

 

[Herb the bitter]

Originally posted by frenchkid

@Duende: I also think it should be changed but there\'s not a chance in the world it would happen as it would need to be voted by the 50 states and there is at least on state out there that dosn\'t to lose the importance the electoral college gives him.

Actually only 3/4 of the states would need to be in favor to make the change. But you\'re right, it won\'t happen.

Another option is to have electoral votes within a state reflect the popular vote instead of winner take all. Each state has the option of how they want to distribute their electoral votes. I believe Colorado is voting on a referendum that would change their electoral vote distribution to reflect the popular vote. If this were the case in Florida in 2000, it wouldn\'t have mattered who \"won\" as they would have each gotten half the electoral votes anyway.

 

[Evil Dave]

I honestly don\'t think it should be changed, most of the registered voters who do, are merely complaining because their candidate lost...Sounds like poor loosers to me.

 

[supervike]

also...

Just know that both sides, Republican and Democrats will most likely have lawyers ready and willing to contest the election if any precinct is statistically close.

I definately do not want my President elected on the basis of lawsuits and court opinions.

 

[finn17]

Now that is a bit worrying....

Originally posted by U4-Welcome
Anyway, did you know that GWB\'s website was not accessible from ouside the States ? Case in point : http://www.georgewbush.com

Why would anyone do that...unless....:innocent:

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by Jas
\'Land Of The Free\' is the biggest joke I have ever heard in my life. Yeah you\'re free if you have lots of money and are not Muslim Fundamentalist (although Christian Fundamentalists are welcomed, hell they even become Presidents!).

Odd...I don\'t have a \'lot of money\', and am not a fundamentalist of *any* kind...but I\'d much rather live here in the US than anywhere else.

Originally posted by Jas
For a country built by slaves it seems ironic to call it that. There are many parts that are \'third world\' by most standards.

I wouldn\'t say \'third world\', though certainly there are those in this country that are much less fortunate than others. However, I\'d guess that there are areas in your country that are just as run down, and that you have a good number of \'unfortunates\' in your nation as well. As for the \'slaves\' that \'built this country\', they were freed over 100 years ago...so to allude to them as some sort of example that America is not free is a crock. And that\'s not even mentioning the fact that the slaves were originally brought here by *your* countrymen before the colonies decided to break from the British Empire. While I am not as stringent as Evil Dave in believing that everyone who has it tough brought it on themselves, I absolutely believe that everyone in this country has a better chance at advancing himself than people from any other nation in the world.

Originally posted by Jas
For the supposedly most powerful, richest nation in the world, you\'d think they\'d look after the less fortunate members of their society.

Right, we just toss them out on the street and occasionally kill one to grind into dog food. There\'s no welfare spending of any kind here in the United States.



You know...I\'m the first to admit that the current leadership of my country leaves a lot to be desired. However, the recent trend in these forums to bash America, however slightly, at every given chance is starting to leave a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach.

 

[finn17]

I don\'t think America is alone in the bashing stakes...

Forget the reasons, if any, for invading Iraq, but USA and UK are both international pariahs at the moment.

Better get used to it, it ain\'t gonna get any better

You also have to understand the motivations...I love America and Americans but just right now, I really despise GWB for what he has done to my country and the fact that he may have made a perfectly good British government unre-ellectable (is that a word?). Believe me, the British public are gonna punish Tony Blair and the Labour party really hard for ignoring public opinion.

It\'s nothing personal Dwight

 

[darthfoley]

It may not be personal, but I do take offense to it (if anyone cares).

 

[finn17]

You\'ll get used to it...

People have been slagging off the Brits for hundreds of years. It builds character

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by darthfoley
You know...I\'m the first to admit that the current leadership of my country leaves a lot to be desired. However, the recent trend in these forums to bash America, however slightly, at every given chance is starting to leave a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I understand what you mean. You have no idea of the crap that people can make up sometimes. France just seemed to have become the most evil country in the world when it refused to go to war in Irak And I spend a good deal of times making people here see how stupid they are to have stereotipical views of the states.
But they are things wrong in the states and saying them is the first step to making them go right, even though I\'m french I love the US and I have spent some of the best years of my life there, heck I even have an american flag in my room. But those things going wrong definetly have to be said.
And will I do believe people have a pretty good chance of having a better life in the sates, I do find it pretentious to say that this chance it better then in any other country in the world.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by finn17
People have been slagging off the Brits for hundreds of years. It builds character

I thought it was the \"toad in the hole\" that did that... ???

Forget the reasons, if any, for invading Iraq, but USA and UK are both international pariahs at the moment.

Better get used to it, it ain\'t gonna get any better

I disagree. Once a certain person (and his British Smithers) are out of office (be it next week or in four years), I imagine the rest of the civilized world might forgive, if not forget. I think a lot of people do know that there are many many Americans fighting to get rid of Bush.

 

[darthfoley]

Originally posted by frenchkid
And will I do believe people have a pretty good chance of having a better life in the sates, I do find it pretentious to say that this chance it better then in any other country in the world.

I could be wrong. But I believe this in my heart.

 

[smokey]

Originally posted by No Such AgencyOnce a certain person (and his British Smithers) are out of office (be it next week or in four years), I imagine the rest of the civilized world might forgive, if not forget.

I don\'t think that the rest of the \"civilized world\" (just think how many atrocities have been committed upon \"savages\" in history, and the word \"civilized\" will come into context.) will forget anytime soon. Yes, alot of foreign governments will realize that the vast majority of US citizens did not want to invade Iraq in the way it was done. Forgive? Possibly. Forget? After 1,100+ deaths and 8,000+ wounded (just on our side) I\'d prefer they didn\'t forget.

That said, I don\'t agree with the war, and intend to do the only thing about it I can, on Nov. 2. I just hope that it doesn\'t turn into the circus that it was in 2000.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by smokey
[ After 1,100+ deaths and 8,000+ wounded (just on our side) I\'d prefer they didn\'t forget.

What about the estimated 300,000 + estimated Iraqi\'s dead?
You know the one\'s murdered under Saddam\'s regime.
The one\'s they\'re finding in the mass graves now, women, children, men, old, young.

The world seems to have forgotten about them.

Mass Graves
another reportl

Originally posted by Darthfoley While I am not as stringent as Evil Dave in believing that everyone who has it tough brought it on themselves.

I don\'t believe that those that have it tough brought it on themselves. I do believe, however, that it is their choices that keep them there.
You can wallow in the crap or you can work hard and get out of it, but the vast majority seem to wallow and complain.

 

[smokey]

That\'s why I put the (just on our side) in. I realize that massive amounts of people have died in that conflict (I just didn\'t have accurate numbers when I posted). Just like I realize that The US Government (under Reagan and Bush I) gave weapons to Saddam so he could attack Iran, and in the end, his own people.

Bush has used those very same bodies as justification for the current mess after the fact.

The point I was trying to make was that I hoped the world didn\'t forget about the violence that the US has caused, because it\'s disrespectful to all who have died in it.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by smokey
That\'s why I put the (just on our side) in. I realize that massive amounts of people have died in that conflict (I just didn\'t have accurate numbers when I posted). Just like I realize that The US Government (under Reagan and Bush I) gave weapons to Saddam so he could attack Iran, and in the end, his own people.

Bush has used those very same bodies as justification for the current mess after the fact.

The point I was trying to make was that I hoped the world didn\'t forget about the violence that the US has caused, because it\'s disrespectful to all who have died in it.

I think you missed my point entirely, not to mention we were selling arms to fight against the Russians, who had put nuclear missles about 30 miles off our coast.

 

[U4-Welcome]

What about the estimated 300,000 + estimated Iraqi\'s dead?
You know the one\'s murdered under Saddam\'s regime.
The one\'s they\'re finding in the mass graves now, women, children, men, old, young.

The world seems to have forgotten about them.

Much as I hate getting into this argument (mainly because I\'ve already had it surface a couple hundred times at another forum I visit, each and every one of them ending with everyone putting their hands over their ears and singing la-la-la), I have to point out that 300k during a 24 year rule is 12.5k a year. Since the end of the war the numbers have more than matched this. As such, I fail to see a drastic improvement as of yet and believe it might be a trifle early to celebrate the US intervention as a real humanitarian action (since the WMD and imminent threat part are, as we know, already out).

 

[Legacy Account]

Originally posted by smokey
I don\'t think that the rest of the \"civilized world\" (just think how many atrocities have been committed upon \"savages\" in history, and the word \"civilized\" will come into context.) will forget anytime soon.

I think NSA was referring to the US/UK as the savages and everyone else as civilised!

 

[Legacy Account]

Originally posted by darthfoley
You know...I\'m the first to admit that the current leadership of my country leaves a lot to be desired. However, the recent trend in these forums to bash America, however slightly, at every given chance is starting to leave a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach.

You really should have a hollow feeling. These criticisms are coming from people who love the US and who are pretty much in the same boat! It\'s a great country, but it\'s run by a foolish government at the moment. I, like Finn am thoroughly pissed that TB has allowed the UK to be dragged into something that is only going to make fundamentalists hate us all more, and give them excuses to recruit more of the disaffected to their cause. \'War On Terror\' is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard.......

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
What about the estimated 300,000 + estimated Iraqi\'s dead?
You know the one\'s murdered under Saddam\'s regime.
The one\'s they\'re finding in the mass graves now, women, children, men, old, young.


Mass Graves
another reportl

That is just a bullshit argument and a sad excuse for having gone to war. The US never whent to war because sadam was killing people, and they never whent to war because he was a bad dictator, and they absolutly never whent to war because they truly belived their were weapon of mass destruction. They are plenty of other tyrants in the world killing 1000 everyday, but it dosn\'t seem GWB cares a lot about them. He you really feel so badly about those people beeing killed well go help. Take a plan ticket to africa and go help the millions dying of hunger. And as U4 said dosn\'t seem the war lowered the number of killed.