Manufacturers banning the sale of items on ebay.

[Master of fact]

Got an interesting email. As most of you are aware GW will not restock ebay indie sellers unless they have a brick and mortar store. Ebay are now trying to fight this with a petition. (this IS NOT aimed at GW alone, im assuming other places have done the same, i mention GW as it effects us as mini painters\'\'

\'\'eBay was built on a simple idea - that we could empower people by building a global trading platform where practically anyone could buy or sell practically anything. But that idea is now under threat from certain brand owners and manufacturers who are trying to turn back the clock and block the sale of their products on online marketplaces and other websites across the EU.

Ultimately, what is at stake is the right of sellers to compete
fairly in the wider online marketplace, and the right of buyers
to be able to access the best possible deals from the widest
possible selection of goods.

Some of these brand owners argue that their objective is to prevent the sale of counterfeits on eBay.
But thanks to our work with 31,000 other rights owners, only 0.15% of listings last year were detected or
reported as potentially counterfeit. The real aim of these brands is to block the sale of all their products on our site - regardless of whether such items are new or second-hand, genuine or fake. It\'s not just luxury items that are affected, but also everyday items like children\'s toys, electronic equipment, lawnmowers and pushchairs. And if we want to prevent other brand owners from following suit, we need to act now.\'\'

 

[Shadzar]

???

You mean the main GW is now trying to do what GW Us failed to do in 2003 when I got screwed over trying to sell GW on eBay?

There is one simple thing in the US, that GW failed to recognize. You have the right to sell your personal tangible property. You don\'t need permission from Kenmore to sell your old washer when you buy a new one. Likewise you don\'t need anyone else\'s permission to sell something physical you own.

In this world and economy some people ned to grow up. What will these companies do next, try to be the only ones selling their own products, and everything must be ordered online?

Good luck with that.

Many things are much better sold online than in stores, but you need both to reach the widest customer base.

I even was buying form someone they couldn\'t find out who in 2003, but my account got screwed over because I was selling GW stuff. Some prepainted!

They attacked ALL sellers with GW items in 2003 regards of if they were retailers for GW or just selling off old collections to get rid of them, and eBay at that time suspended ALL sellers accounts that had GW items to comply with copyright laws until they got word from eBay lawyers that people have the right to sell their personal belongings.

Some...many companies need a reality check.

 

[fullybakedbear]

Ebay is bad for gaming and gaming stores... period.

A few years back I had a lengthy discussion with the local shop owner (whom i\'ve known since \'83). The business model of the ebay sellers is generally a VERY low profit model using a 60-90 day credit plan to continually float a high \'inventory\'. Miniatures less than cards of course. It got so bad that he stopped giving out discounts to regulars and his quad annual or so 20% off everything sales.

The example we discussed was the VS card game. At the time, I think retail on a box was 90-95 dollars, maybe 85, and i was getting them for i think 70 or 75. What was happening was that the (mostly) kids were coming in and demanding 65 a box because that\'s what they could get them for on ebay. He was paying nearly that himself and he was a million dolllar store with an established long term account with the two big distributors.

Well this became the norm across the board and the only in store gaming that got supported was Pokemon and then Yugi-oh.. because they were the only people buying in the store. He runs some Magic drafts now, but the largest game store in one of the most populous counties in the US (not including run off from Broward County which holds Ft. Lauderdale).

Who really thinks that mini gaming can exist without a common place to play? How many people really walk into a store, see 40k and create a thriving environment? Why do people even KNOW about 40k to buy it on ebay?

We have one local GW store. I\'ve gone in and bought paints and models from them over the last 9 months. I could have gotten it all cheaper over the ebay but is an ebay seller going to give me a place to play or people to play with?

The thing that GW did realize in the US is that everyone has the right to choose who and where they sell their products as long as they do not discriminate by race or religion or age. Choosing to restrict selling products to those entities that will have a negative effect on their industry is not a bad thing, an evil thing or a foolish thing.

 

[darklord]

funny how quick ebay get into action when they\'re profits are at risk - never that quick to respond to my issues.
GW should send ebay an automated response - see how they like it.
its gw\'s stuff its up to them who they supply it to and if doing this protects them then so be it - they are a business and obviously too much is getting sold through independants and the stores arent getting used as much - not something any of us want to see

 

[supervike]

I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.

I\'ve spend lots of money over the years at my local gaming store. Believe me, lots. Yet, I\'ve never played a single game there...or did anything other than buy stuff.

But, as I find better deals on the internet, why the heck shouldn\'t I take advantage of those? I don\'t owe anything to the retailer.

What the local retailers need to do, is to find a better way to cater to me. If they want my spending cash, make it worth my time to want to come there.

I won\'t be put on a guilt trip to think I need to support them. It\'s quite the reverse. They need to support me.

Now, onto GW. They can do what they want, but it\'s just pushing me further and further away from purchasing any of their items. They can shrug their shoulders and wonder what happened to their customer base...but I think if they look at themselves, they\'ll know.

 

[Master of fact]

I can see where you both come from, but i sell my \'\'old models\'\' on ebay. I dont get as much for them but they are mine to sell. If i finish with an xbox game i trade it in. Where i am the only store that sells 40k sells it more expensive than GW......... there is gw and this store. Thats it. The seller i buy off from ebay was excellent.

 

[generulpoleaxe]

Corperations are trying to price fix, and to do this they need to get rid of ebay and other online auction sites.

Ebay is only worried about it\'s profits, it has already shown it doesn\'t care about the sellars that got it up and running.

I say stand back and watch them all tear themselves a new arse, especialy if they are trying to get regulations brought in to rig the market in their favour (corperatism)

The little guys win win out in the long run as they watch their overheads and prices whilst listening to their customers.

 

[PegaZus]

I do believe that GW is trapped between a rock and hard place.

If they continue to sell wholesale to cut-rate eBay entities, of course that\'s going to drive down sales at the physical.

But, if they clamp down on that entirely, their prices are going to be higher, and that\'s going to drive down sales.

Upheaval of business reality is a bitch, and the nimble will survive while those who cannot cope will become history.

 

[demonherald]

I can see that GW always gets thrown i when these things come up.. The wider ebay policy thing and I\'m guessing triggered by the ebay petition sent round recently isn\'t the fact that it\'s just toy soldiers it\'s everything.. big companies are rattled by ay and are moving to stop ther poducts being sold through the site.. Ebay is the easiest target because it\'s so big but a lot of companies are moving to un settle the whole status quo... Sony , nintendo , canon , samsung , nd more as well as large brick and mortar second hand stores and retailers such as HMV Game and the like all pointing at ebay as a source of income loss.. It is a bad state of affairs really .. The fact that ebay has mae selling so accessible means that everyone is at it and ok yes it is unfair that a bloke in his own house can sell as many dvds at a lower price than a big city centre store but merely targeting ay just won\'t make the problem go away .. The internet is the way things are moving forward plain and simple and businesses need to get used to it...There is nothing that can be done to stop it...

a recent example for me... I needed a plastic bug tank for my litle one , 2 dvds for me a book for my dad and tickets to ireland and some paint..... I don\'t drive so to go get them would have cost around £11 in bus fares to various places and taken 2-3 days of my time... sitting down at home between Play amazon and ebay I had the stuff paid a little less than I would have and had it all within 2 days without even leaving my home... It\'s a no brainer that that\'s the way forward .. The only thing I don\'t really buy online is clothes prefer to see and try stuff in the flesh.... I\'m guessing I\'m not the only one like his has most high streets are now getting dominated by clothes shops and less and less specialist retailers around.

now there we have that side of things my money is spread between several online retailers... now my food shoping is with the same supermarket I used to use but now delivered online... Asda .. so here we have a company that has moved with the times appropriately and gets no less money from me because they provide a first rate online service at no excess charge with the same (in fact bigger) choice that I would find walking in the store...

until companies and manufacturers bring their online services to a level that competes then they won\'t get my money. GW really has improved their online game and as a consequence I have recently bought some stuff from them for the first time in a year or two.. Bravo them and good luck to em I say. But the brick and mortar stores suck... can\'t even buy the stuff I want have to mail order it... (whats the point)

Now here\'s my final point on this ... honest...... All these companies and big names are screaming at the fact they are losing out because people sell their items cheaper than them???? How?? sure a one man band in his own home has hardly any overheads but he still has to buy the product . manufacturers who sell these products at trade price still make the same profit whatever the retailer sells it at so the only real solution for manuacturers to truly compete with online sellers is to sell their own stuff at a price no bugger can match but as said they make the same money whoever the sell to so the real complainants are retailers but eventually they will just have to put there hand up and realise the internet for what is.(look at the new woolworths online store) . ultimately though rules and laws will make no difference as the cosumer will always find a way and if they don\'t they will stop buying.. simple.....

As far as second hand good sgo then there will neer be anything that stops people selling second hand stuff can\'t be done.. you own something you own it simple as.

 

[darklord]

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.
.

maybe not but one thing gw does do is get young uns into the hobby through its highly visible prescence on the high street which is something we need - could you imagine the hobby without a squig or alextheartist coming into it (actually scratch that argument!)


the whole argument about re-selling an xbox game or old mini is pretty redundant in my mind - selling something second hand is completley different to purchasing something for retail. plenty of supplier put caveats in place - the company that made my mountain bike wont let them be sold on the internet - instore only, avon have set territories for their sellers. how many times have you bought a multipack and it says not for individual sale?
if pushed gw can simply go back to how they ran their independants before and make them buy £1000 of stock instead of £250 on credit - that should get rid of a lot for them.

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by darklord
funny how quick ebay get into action when they\'re profits are at risk - never that quick to respond to my issues.
GW should send ebay an automated response - see how they like it.
its gw\'s stuff its up to them who they supply it to and if doing this protects them then so be it - they are a business and obviously too much is getting sold through independants and the stores arent getting used as much - not something any of us want to see

But it may violate anti-competition laws. From a consumer standpoint, if you don\'t want to sell your products then keep them where people cannot buy them.

So not allowing sales online keeps people from being able to purchase your products.

Forcing people to use only your online store, when they can buy from retailers offline is not fair business practice.

Not to mention that when you buy something you own it, not the company.

They can stop distribution toy ou, but have no say in what you do with your things.

Is GW going to try to stop you from selling something else you own? They have no right. They sold it to you, not rented it or loaned it to you.

You bought the item and they no longer have any control over it unless you try to manufacture it and call it your own.

GW should have NO right to stop people form selling bits to recover some money for the wasted parts they paid for, or even whole models/boxes that people may have to spare.

That is the thing GW is forgetting, is that eBay is not only used by business, but peoples that may just be looking to get rid of some things.

So If they don\'t want to supply to you, fine, but they have no say in what you do with it, once you have it.

 

[darklord]

they arent stoppinh people selling online - they just want retailers to have a bricks and mortar store too.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by darklord

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.
.

maybe not but one thing gw does do is get young uns into the hobby through its highly visible prescence on the high street which is something we need - could you imagine the hobby without a squig or alextheartist coming into it (actually scratch that argument!)

I have to agree with you there. Getting \'fresh blood\' to the store is important, especially to the hobby as a whole.

But, my point is that we shouldn\'t have to artificially prop up these stores to stay in business. If I can buy something for fifteen dollars cheaper on Ebay than in the store, the store needs to bump up what they do. If they can\'t compete in price, compete with service, or value-added\' stuff.

 

[NGArtStudios]

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.

I\'ve spend lots of money over the years at my local gaming store. Believe me, lots. Yet, I\'ve never played a single game there...or did anything other than buy stuff.

But, as I find better deals on the internet, why the heck shouldn\'t I take advantage of those? I don\'t owe anything to the retailer.

What the local retailers need to do, is to find a better way to cater to me. If they want my spending cash, make it worth my time to want to come there.

I won\'t be put on a guilt trip to think I need to support them. It\'s quite the reverse. They need to support me.

Now, onto GW. They can do what they want, but it\'s just pushing me further and further away from purchasing any of their items. They can shrug their shoulders and wonder what happened to their customer base...but I think if they look at themselves, they\'ll know.

Amen.

 

[darklord]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by darklord

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.
.

maybe not but one thing gw does do is get young uns into the hobby through its highly visible prescence on the high street which is something we need - could you imagine the hobby without a squig or alextheartist coming into it (actually scratch that argument!)

I have to agree with you there. Getting \'fresh blood\' to the store is important, especially to the hobby as a whole.

But, my point is that we shouldn\'t have to artificially prop up these stores to stay in business. If I can buy something for fifteen dollars cheaper on Ebay than in the store, the store needs to bump up what they do. If they can\'t compete in price, compete with service, or value-added\' stuff.

i do agree - i havent said that i actually agree with gw\'s motives (i believe they are ill founded and short-sighted) but i do think it is their choice and i find it funny how if this was anyone else ebay was trying to dictate to they would be hung out to dry but because this involves gw then its suddenly GW the baddie and ebay is some knight in shining armour - ebay treat people like crap but that seems to get forgotten

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by darklord
they arent stoppinh people selling online - they just want retailers to have a bricks and mortar store too.

??? That is old news in the US...that is what happened in 2003, but they forced the end of all auctions of GW stuff on eBay for that period, as well as preventing people form selling anything made by GW at that time when they made this move to prevent people selling things online ANYWHERE in regards to North America.

 

[james sequeira]

Couldnt give a shit about GW stores, but this is good news for indie stores who actually have a brick and motar shop and offer gaming areas ect.

 

[alextheartist]

Originally posted by darklord

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.
.

maybe not but one thing gw does do is get young uns into the hobby through its highly visible prescence on the high street which is something we need - could you imagine the hobby without a squig or alextheartist coming into it (actually scratch that argument!)


the whole argument about re-selling an xbox game or old mini is pretty redundant in my mind - selling something second hand is completley different to purchasing something for retail. plenty of supplier put caveats in place - the company that made my mountain bike wont let them be sold on the internet - instore only, avon have set territories for their sellers. how many times have you bought a multipack and it says not for individual sale?
if pushed gw can simply go back to how they ran their independants before and make them buy £1000 of stock instead of £250 on credit - that should get rid of a lot for them.

Year and a month and I will be an \"adult\"

I just bide my time...

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by supervike
I don\'t know about the argument of the \'brick and mortar\' store as being some sort of virtuous entity that deserves my money.

I\'ve spend lots of money over the years at my local gaming store. Believe me, lots. Yet, I\'ve never played a single game there...or did anything other than buy stuff.

But, as I find better deals on the internet, why the heck shouldn\'t I take advantage of those? I don\'t owe anything to the retailer.

What the local retailers need to do, is to find a better way to cater to me. If they want my spending cash, make it worth my time to want to come there.

I won\'t be put on a guilt trip to think I need to support them. It\'s quite the reverse. They need to support me.

Now, onto GW. They can do what they want, but it\'s just pushing me further and further away from purchasing any of their items. They can shrug their shoulders and wonder what happened to their customer base...but I think if they look at themselves, they\'ll know.

agreed sire!

 

[fullybakedbear]

Originally posted by supervike
But, my point is that we shouldn\'t have to artificially prop up these stores to stay in business. If I can buy something for fifteen dollars cheaper on Ebay than in the store, the store needs to bump up what they do. If they can\'t compete in price, compete with service, or value-added\' stuff.

Right spot on. There is absolutely no good reason to do commerce in one\'s own locale. The american economy has flourished under the concept that what ever is cheapest is the best. It isn\'t like Iowa lost 3400 non agricultural jobs in April.

You also don\'t seem to be aware that there is federal leglislation that prevents any manufacturer from selling it\'s products directly to the consumer for less than its advertised retail price. Without this protection, there wouldn\'t be much in the way of stores anymore... everyone would direct ship to their customers. GW would ONLY sell online at about 60% of the retail price

to paraphrase the many morons who play WOW... L2economy.