Matte Finish Q\'s

[GretchinDeathKommand]

I\'ve never used finish before but now I\'m painting an army for another person and I want to make it look as good as I can. I have a couple of questions.
1. What brand gets the best results?
2. I\'ve heard that the best protection is achieved by gloss then matte, does this cut all the shinyness since I hate gloss minis. And is it necessary?
3. Do you base before or after you spray finish on the model?

Thanks

 

[Dr. Bob]

I like Testors Dullcote. Smelly stuff though.

I usually put on 2 coats of gloss first for protection (I think I use Krylon acrylic varnish). The Dullcote manages to totally remove the shine every time.

I base before sealing, but I never use static grass (just sand, gravel, and organo). I have heard that you might want to seal the mini before applying static grass.

 

[KatieG]

Originally posted by GretchinDeathKommand
I\'ve never used finish before but now I\'m painting an army for another person and I want to make it look as good as I can. I have a couple of questions.
1. What brand gets the best results?

I find both Testor\'s Dullcoat and GW\'s Matte Spray to be perfectly fine. However, when you want a matte result, you need to be careful of overspray. If you put too much matte spray on a mini, it will start looking satiny or even glossy.

2. I\'ve heard that the best protection is achieved by gloss then matte, does this cut all the shinyness since I hate gloss minis. And is it necessary?

This is true. And if its going to be used on the gaming table, yes, it\'s necessary. Particularly if you\'re using metal minis. If they aren\'t well sealed (and matte provides about zero protection) they\'ll be chipped and rubbed off very quickly. Even with protection they\'ll get chipped eventually.

3. Do you base before or after you spray finish on the model?

It depends on what kind of basing I am doing. Flock and static grass you might want to wait and base afterwards. But if you\'re using gravel, you\'ll want that stuff to be sealed for protection as well. Also, some people have taken to putting static grass on even before priming, and what I have seen of it looks pretty good, although I haven\'t tried it myself yet. I think static grass by itself though looks kind of crappy, I tend to paint it after I put it on the mini (it\'s too shiny). Hope this helps!
--Katie G.

 

[Caelithar]

I was just about to post something similar myself . I have been using Humbrol Enamel Matte , brushed on . I got superb matte results on my big Sauron figure but since then I have tried it on another 3 figures and all 3 have turned out really glossy which is a bit of a pain . What do you guys in the UK use for your Matte finishes , I dont think we can get Testor\'s here .

Cheers .

 

[Trevor]

I was being asked the exact same question by one of the local GW staff today.

I use the Humbrol matte spray, its more consistant than the brush on. For gloss I\'m currently using testors, but it seems to make some of my paints run, especially inks, so I matt varnish first then gloss then matte again.

I find that GW matte looks satiny over a gloss varnish, but it works great on plastics where you don\'t need to use gloss.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Caelithar
I was just about to post something similar myself . I have been using Humbrol Enamel Matte , brushed on . I got superb matte results on my big Sauron figure but since then I have tried it on another 3 figures and all 3 have turned out really glossy which is a bit of a pain . What do you guys in the UK use for your Matte finishes , I dont think we can get Testor\'s here .

Cheers .

Yes we can get Testor\'s here, there was a thread for it under Painting a while ago.
As for the Humbrol if it\'s not going matte, Shake the bottle Harder. It takes the devil\'s own amount of shaking sometimes. But too many coats will make it go satin.
Plus check out what you\'ve painted with your brush before. i\'ve taken to keeping an old flat brush (3/8th inch) for the matte varnishing and altough I\'ve cleaned it in White Spirits I had to give it a quick dose of the old Acetone, before washing iit again in hair shampoo.

 

[Caelithar]

Ahh , looks like more shaking is in order , with a bit of luck it will work on the glossy ones and tune them down a little bit , as for Testor\'s I\'ll have a hunt around for it , cheers .

 

[vincegamer]

Is there evidence???

Originally posted by KatieG
2. I\'ve heard that the best protection is achieved by gloss then matte, does this cut all the shinyness since I hate gloss minis. And is it necessary?

This is true. And if its going to be used on the gaming table, yes, it\'s necessary. Particularly if you\'re using metal minis. If they aren\'t well sealed (and matte provides about zero protection) they\'ll be chipped and rubbed off very quickly. Even with protection they\'ll get chipped eventually.

Okay, I\'ve heard this again and again and I\'ve asked repeatedly, but no one has ever been able to answer. Why is it that gloss gives more protection, and what empirical evidence is there. One variable was, would 3 layers of matt finish provide the same protection as 2 of gloss and 1 of matt? if no, why not? (assume brush on for simplicity).

 

[vincegamer]

And from another perspective....

Originally posted by Trevor
I find that GW matte looks ... works great on plastics where you don\'t need to use gloss.

Why would you not need gloss on plastics if the problems is paint rubbing off from handling and, as Katie said above, matt provides \"about zero protection.\"

It\'s inconsistencies like these that lead me to suspect the entire controversy over what finish to use.

 

[KatieG]

OK, I\'ll try to answer both of your questions here vincegamer. Gloss provides more protection because it dries harder. Also, spraying on a heavy gloss coat isn\'t a big deal, because, well, you expect it to be glossy. Spraying a heavy coat of matte sealer leads to shinyness, which is not what you want. So you have to use less to get the effect you want, leading to less protection. I don\'t use brush on matte sealers anymore because they\'ve had a couple of nasty side effects I didn\'t like (bubbling up and frosting mainly).

Plastics require less sealer because they are lighter. Drop a metal mini 5 feet and its going to get chipped and banged pretty badly. Drop a plastic mini that distance, very little if any damage occurs. You can still get loss of paint by rubbing off the edges, but I\'ve found, for whatever reason, that plastics seem to be less susceptable to this than metals, perhaps primer/paint stays better on plastics or something...
--Katie G.

 

[Cerridwyn1st]

Matte on Metal

One more thing - be careful not to spray too close, especially if you are using metal paints instead of NMM. If the Dullcote is too close to the model when you spray, the metal will look dull when you are done.

If I have something that I want to be shiney, like a jewel, I\'ll use paint-on gloss varnish on that area after I\'ve sealed the mini.

Definatley add static grass after you seal. It looks really bad when it has a coat or two of Dull Cote on it.

 

[Coyote]

Go to a DIY store and ask a knowledgable person whether you should paint your kid\'s room with a satin or gloss paint?

Gloss is harder, is more resistant to rubbing (because of it\'s smooth surface, less friction) and is less likely to trap dirt.

 

[GretchinDeathKommand]

Some good advice, thanks, these forums rock for really helpful modeling techniques. Ok, so from what I think I\'m going to do is pick up some dullcoat, what brand of gloss out there is best in your opinion? Then after they are all painted and the hard terrain is done (gravel, metal bits) hit it with a coat of gloss then maybe 2 light coats (not spraying close) of Matte, will this make all the brass on Khorne go really dull? And if so how would I combat this? Thanks

 

[Dr. Bob]

You can buy some brush-on gloss varnish (for instance from Vallejo) to go back over any \"dulled\" metal or gems.

So in summary, (1) spray gloss x 2, (2) spray matte x 1, then (3) touch up with brush-on gloss.

 

[Trevor]

I hav found that gloss varnish is slightly elastic, wheras matte is brittle, what this means is gloss doesn\'t chip as easily as matte.

I have very little problems with paint chips on models that are glossed (with or without matte overspray), but the matte on its own chips like hell.

 

[zenmaster]

Gloss coats

I\'ve always been afraid of gloss coating before matt coating. I think it\'s because I\'m afraid of experimenting. Once I find something that works I stick with it. I have noticed that the paint on some of my minis painted ten years ago has been chipping, so it might be wiser to try a gloss coat before matt coating.....Isaias

 

[vincegamer]

Okay, so it seems to be this:
1) matt finish has a rough texture which makes it more susceptable to rubbing off due to increased friction.
2)some evidence that gloss finish has a somewhat elastic quality, making it less likely to chip on impact.
3)I\'m the only person left who uses brush on finishes.